A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[KingMalik]

EGG took the prophecy and set it all in motion

AERYS started the war

NOTHING about the prophecy required a self sacrifice among any involved parties

RHAEGAR is no more important or necessary to the prophecy than his father or grandfather or great grandfather or Lyannas father or grandfather or great great great great grandfather

RHAEGAR was just a piece of the puzzle who fought valiantly, who fought honorably, and who DIED LIKE A bytch at the Trident needlessly

Stop martyring him

Please tell me where I am wrong. I will wait

Aerys wouldn't have had a war to start without Rhaegar taking Lyanna away from Robert. That prompted Brandon and Rikard flying down to the capital.


He actions brought TPTWP into the world.


He didn't have to believe some silly prophecy in a book. He had a wife in Elia, a daughter in Rhaenys and an heir in Aegon. He cared about the Kingdom enough to call a tourney to meet with all the Lords to dispose his crazy ass father. If Rhaegar didn't care about TPTWP, that's all that would have happened Rhaegar disposes Aerys, becomes King and has 16 years of peace, until the White Walkers come through and kill everybody. Instead he met Lyanna and realized she was the other half of the prophecy he read and he went with that........at the expense of his life. It would have been much, much, much easier to return to King's Landing and play harps and write sonnets for the rest of his life.


You don't have Jon without Rhaegar. Its like Anakin and Luke. Bardock and Goku. Jin and Kazuya. Show a little respect

 

[Adam3000]

Aerys wouldn't have had a war to start without Rhaegar taking Lyanna away from Robert. That prompted Brandon and Rikard flying down to the capital.


He actions brought TPTWP into the world.


He didn't have to believe some silly prophecy in a book. He had a wife in Elia, a daughter in Rhaenys and an heir in Aegon. He cared about the Kingdom enough to call a tourney to meet with all the Lords to dispose his crazy ass father. If Rhaegar didn't care about TPTWP, that's all that would have happened Rhaegar disposes Aerys, becomes King and has 16 years of peace, until the White Walkers come through and kill everybody. Instead he met Lyanna and realized she was the other half of the prophecy he read and he went with that........at the expense of his life. It would have been much, much, much easier to return to King's Landing and play harps and write sonnets for the rest of his life.


You don't have Jon without Rhaegar. Its like Anakin and Luke. Bardock and Goku. Jin and Kazuya. Show a little respect

Nope

You wanna play that "without that, this wouldnt have happened" then I could bring a million scenarios into play that happened long before Rhaegar was born. It dont work like that.

Rhaegar was not special. The prophecy stated that TPTWP would be born in EGG'S lineage, so if anything, Egg is the special one. After all, he is Jons great grandpa.

Cant keep playing that game

My post was all facts

 

[KingMalik]

Nope

You wanna play that "without that, this wouldnt have happened" then I could bring a million scenarios into play that happened long before Rhaegar was born. It dont work like that.

Rhaegar was not special. The prophecy stated that TPTWP would be born in EGG'S lineage, so if anything, Egg is the special one. After all, he is Jons great grandpa.

Cant keep playing that game

My post was all facts

How is the great grandpa special but, not the actual father

Your logic right now

Prophecies are just prophecies. They have to be fulfilled. And Rhaegar fulfilled it. He brought Jon into the world. Now its Jon's job to defeat the Walkers.

 

[Adam3000]

How is the great grandpa special but, not the actual father

Your logic right now

.

Nah, you missed the point. Egg wasnt special. Neither was Aerys. Neither was Rhaegar. ONLY JON is special. By saying Egg was special, I was trying to use your logic against you. The person who birthed Jon is irrelevant. Because then I can ask "who birthed the person that birthed Jon" and it goes on forever

My logic is flawless

Just like Robert Baratheons record vs. L-Targ on the Trident

 

[KingMalik]

Nah, you missed the point. Egg wasnt special. Neither was Aerys. Neither was Rhaegar. ONLY JON is special. By saying Egg was special, I was trying to use your logic against you. The person who birthed Jon is irrelevant. Because then I can ask "who birthed the person that birthed Jon" and it goes on forever

My logic is flawless

Just like Robert Baratheons record vs. L-Targ on the Trident

Don't try to make it seem like your impartial all of sudden. You hate the GOD Rhaegar.

Anyone who followed the prophecy and actively tried to fulfill it are worth mentioning. Egg to an extent, Jahaerys to an extent and Rhaegar even more because his actions directly brought Jon here. Regardless of how you feel, when Jon rises and takes out the WW, book readers and show watchers will view Rhaegar favorably. Robert's legacy is nothing. He won a war and died unhappy with a bunch of mutant incest kids that weren't his. Rhaegar birthed Neo.

 

[Adam3000]

Don't try to make it seem like your impartial all of sudden. You hate the GOD Rhaegar.

Anyone who followed the prophecy and actively tried to fulfill it are worth mentioning. Egg to an extent, Jahaerys to an extent and Rhaegar even more because his actions directly brought Jon here.

I will concede both these points. Especially the first one.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

explain how egg played a part for the unknown

 

[Type Username Here]

explain how egg played a part for the unknown

I think Jaehaerys II played the biggest part. The woods witch had told him that The Prince That Was Promised would be born of his line so he forced his son and daughter to marry (Aerys II the Mad King and Rhaella) in order to ensure this would happen.

We all know that both of them were Rhaegar's parents. Rhaegar was born at Summerhall the day it went up in flames and killed King Aegon V (Egg) who was trying to do something there along with the wood's witch (bring back Dragons? Not sure). So his Great-grandfather dies the day he is born, his grandfather becomes king, and so on.

So Rhaegar is this intelligent kid, into music and poetry. Reads non-stop. Well one day he comes upon something in the scrolls that makes him realize he needs to be warrior for some reason. Barristan said Rhaegar was also melancholy, like the prince knew the world was doomed.

Rhaegar originally erroneously thought his son Aegon was the Prince That Was Promised (Rhaegar also thought he was TPTWP at one point, but he was wrong about that too). Daenerys sees a vision of Rhaegar in the House of the Undying where he says about Aegon:

He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.

He just had the wrong son in my mind. His other son would be a real bloodline of ice (Starks) and fire (Targs).

I don't think there were any other Stark-Targaryen children running around besides one, but we don't know the whole picture.

 

[Adam3000]

explain how egg played a part for the unknown

I was wrong about Egg being the first who got the prophecy. I forgot that Jaeherys was the Mad Kings dad, I was thinking that Egg was. I forgot a branch of the family tree

Jaeherys received a prophecy from a woods witch (The Ghost of High Heart likely) that the prince that was promised would be born in the Mad Kings line

After Summerhall, it was thought to be Rhaegar.

Egg may still be involved, hence the whole tragedy at Summerhall

Rhaegar somehow found out about the prophecy and became obsessed with it

And needlessly got smoked on the Trident and is now being falsely martyred

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

 

[Type Username Here]

It had to be a Targ-Stark love child to fulfill the prophecy. Rhaegar knew this and from what we hear about him, he most likely understood that it would send the Great Houses into war. But if you think the world is going to end if the prophecy isn't fulfilled, who gives a shyt anyway?

Im sure Rhaegar was more worried about Robert killing his son than becoming King. At the end, Rhaegar's death is meaningless. He accomplished what he needed to accomplish. And I think Lyanna loved him as well and she understood the prophecy.

If you're Rhaegar, you don't send three of your fukking best men to guard one woman and a baby in a tower in bumfukk Egypt if you don't think that kid is special.

 

[KingMalik]

Do any of you think Bloodraven knew about the prophecy or is that crackpot territory?

I'm reading theories about it. There's the whole "I loved one brother and hated the other" quote. It would be poetic if the brother he loved was Daemon but, he backed Daeron anyway. Maybe Aegon IV was a liar.....a piece of shyt like him.....wouldn't be a surprise. But again, it would be poetic if that was the one thing the dikkhead was telling the truth about. That Daeron was Aemon/Shiera's son. And because of his track record, no one would believe him. And that the two people no one would expect to ever dishonor themselves did. It's clever. Bloodraven sees that Daeron would make a better King for the Realm than Daemon, and that Dany, Jon, Rhaegar and Aegon would come from Daeron's line, so he kills the brother he loved. And then there's the whole funny business with Aegon being the fourth brother but ending up King.

It all depends on how powerful Bloodraven was back then I mean Bran is only 8 and can see the whole world from one side to the other. Maybe I"m reaching

 

[JulesWinfield]

Off topic but I'm stoked that it's official that Euron Greyjoy has been cast. Great casting too. I find that Pilou Asbaek could defintely pass as Alfie Allen's uncle.

 

[Type Username Here]

Do any of you think Bloodraven knew about the prophecy or is that crackpot territory?

I'm reading theories about it. There's the whole "I loved one brother and hated the other" quote. It would be poetic if the brother he loved was Daemon but, he backed Daeron anyway. Maybe Aegon IV was a liar.....a piece of shyt like him.....wouldn't be a surprise. But again, it would be poetic if that was the one thing the dikkhead was telling the truth about. That Daeron was Aemon/Shiera's son. And because of his track record, no one would believe him. And that the two people no one would expect to ever dishonor themselves did. It's clever. Bloodraven sees that Daeron would make a better King for the Realm than Daemon, and that Dany, Jon, Rhaegar and Aegon would come from Daeron's line, so he kills the brother he loved. And then there's the whole funny business with Aegon being the fourth brother but ending up King.

It all depends on how powerful Bloodraven was back then I mean Bran is only 8 and can see the whole world from one side to the other. Maybe I"m reaching

Bloodraven knows. A lot of people think he speaks through Mormont's raven. If that's true, that raven surely says some intriguing things when Jon Snow is around.

 

[dennis roadman]

Bloodraven knows. A lot of people think he speaks through Mormont's raven. If that's true, that raven surely says some intriguing things when Jon Snow is around.

go on