A Blown Knee & Flat Tires-Another NY Pothole Year: 17-18 Knicks Season Thread

seemorecizzy

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Until you construct an actual trade that competes with IT, Crowder and the Brooklyn pick, you're just complaining about 2k trades. That's what @I.V. tried to explain to you but lost patience on.
breh, dont change the argument lol
the contracts don't even match with that trade
back when kyrie wanted a trade, a lot of yall said frank and willy were untouchable
earlier in the thread, u said hypothetically, u wouldn't trade frank willy and a first for kyrie and u mentioned your reasons which were pretty crazy lol
that is the only thing im discussing, knick fans that overvalue minimal talent and act like we the shyt when we trash lol

only thing i said about the boston trade is, we should of been more aggressive. because cavs did not want to trade kyrie to their main compeition regardless of what they were getting back

that IV guy is a idiot, don't be like him lol
 

storyteller

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I disagree.

This team with a competent coach would be in a better place right now, when I see our roster outside of PG play which Kyrie would have addressed, I don’t see a roster devoid of talent.

Lee-Solid 3&D player
Timmy-gunning wing, microwave scorer I think he and Kyrie would complement each other well
Kanter-double double machine
Beasley-microwave scoring combo forward
McDermott-off-ball threat, cutter+shooter
O’Quinn-high end energy big with passing skills, enforcer
Thomas-hustler+defender, low end 3&D player
Jack-Veteran back up point with P&R and midrange skills

Is that really poor depth around a KP/Kyrie duo?

I'm not saying it wouldn't have a better record, but that's not contender depth. That's treadmill depth without the picks or capspace to get over the hump. Kanter isn't a starter on a contender and our best option to start at SF is Courtney Lee whose undersized for the spot. It looks 10 deep until you stack that line-up against the top teams. It's competitive with the second tier of teams (I wouldn't even say outright better than a lot of them) but again, that's just not good enough and KP would have to be 30 points on high efficiency all year long without any defensive dropoff. All that and I'd still be skeptical that the defense could hold up because KP would be covering for Kyrie/THJ's poor backcourt defense AND Kanter's lack of interior defensive presence.

So I'm not saying the team wouldn't be a playoff team, but I'd ask you to stack that roster against the top 10 teams in the league right now...where does it fall and how would you plan to get past the teams you slot ahead of it?
 

storyteller

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breh, dont change the argument lol
the contracts don't even match with that trade
back when kyrie wanted a trade, a lot of yall said frank and willy were untouchable
earlier in the thread, u said hypothetically, u wouldn't trade frank willy and a first for kyrie and u mentioned your reasons which were pretty crazy lol
that is the only thing im discussing, knick fans that overvalue minimal talent and act like we the shyt when we trash lol

only thing i said about the boston trade is, we should of been more aggressive. because cavs did not want to trade kyrie to their main compeition regardless of what they were getting back

that IV guy is a idiot, don't be like him lol

This is where the convo started
So you'd trade Frank, Picks AND Willy for Kyrie? That ain't winning a chip or coming close to it breh. KP, Kyrie, THJ with no cap space and or ability to move picks...that's not how you win a chip.

Note the bold is plural...I wouldn't operate on a hypothetical trade that isn't realistic. The logic is simple, you don't mortgage 5 years of flexibility until you're sure the roster is ready to be a contender.
 

ISO

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I'm not saying it wouldn't have a better record, but that's not contender depth. That's treadmill depth without the picks or capspace to get over the hump. Kanter isn't a starter on a contender and our best option to start at SF is Courtney Lee whose undersized for the spot. It looks 10 deep until you stack that line-up against the top teams. It's competitive with the second tier of teams (I wouldn't even say outright better than a lot of them) but again, that's just not good enough and KP would have to be 30 points on high efficiency all year long without any defensive dropoff. All that and I'd still be skeptical that the defense could hold up because KP would be covering for Kyrie/THJ's poor backcourt defense AND Kanter's lack of interior defensive presence.

So I'm not saying the team wouldn't be a playoff team, but I'd ask you to stack that roster against the top 10 teams in the league right now...where does it fall and how would you plan to get past the teams you slot ahead of it?
I wouldn't start Kanter though. If I were coaching the team he would have the same role he did in Oklahoma City, playing 20-25 minutes a night and feasting against second units he was a 6MOY candidate in that role.

I would start O'Quinn next to KP, good passer not a blackhole, much better defensively, 2.3 blocks per 36 minutes, 4.1 defensive box plus minus. Or I would start Beasley at the 4 to add better switching/versatility with KP at the 5, that would also be very potent offensively.

I don't think we have to be a contender in year one. KP is 22, Kyrie is 25, Timmy is 25 they have time. KP has a level we haven't seen before. This team will never field a good defense under Hornacek, so we would have to hire a coach with strong defensive sets who can get the most out of his guys anyway.
 
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storyteller

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I wouldn't start Kanter though. If I were coaching the team he would have the same role he did in Oklahoma City, playing 20-25 minutes a night and feasting against second units he was a 6MOY candidate in that role.

I would start O'Quinn next to KP, good passer not a blackhole, much better defensively, 2.3 blocks per 36 minutes, 4.1 defensive box plus minus. Or I would start Beasley at the 4 to add better switching/versatility with KP at the 5, that would also be very potent offensively.

I don't think we have to be a contender in year one. KP is 22 and Kyrie is 25, they have time. KP has a level we haven't seen before. This team will never field a good defense under Hornacek, so we would have to hire a coach with strong defensive sets who can get the most out of his guys anyway.

That’s a good case for it. Not gonna lie at all, I’m definitely with KOQ over Kanter. It makes the starters a lot more viable defensively. I’m more skeptical about the ceiling on that team, but KP’s upside is undeniable and he did put it up for a significant chunk of season.
 
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This is where the convo started


Note the bold is plural...I wouldn't operate on a hypothetical trade that isn't realistic. The logic is simple, you don't mortgage 5 years of flexibility until you're sure the roster is ready to be a contender.

Initially I wanted the Kyrie trade to go through but I backed away a bit based on this logic, but after seeing Willy's value get tanked, the Melo for Kanter trade,and seeing the way Kyrie and KP played this year, I would've traded Frank, Willy, and a protected pick for Kyrie if I had the chance to go back and do it. The Knicks would lack depth and assets, and would be forced to build the rest of the team through free agency, so I still see the logic in not doing the trade, but damn man, a guy like Kyrie is rarely available, it's hard not to let it tempt you. Kyrie would've had KP looking like an MVP for the whole season,not just part of it. Free agents would've been lining up to play with KP and Kyrie. I'm not upset that it didn't happen though, I'm still high on Frank and that hasn't changed over the course of the season, and as long as the Knicks hit on their picks this year, they'll be in a good position regardless; there's some game changing bigs with some crazy skill sets and a lot of quality wings in the upcoming draft, so while being bad sucks, if you're gonna be bad it's a pretty good year to do so.

Two picks is still too much though, especially if they're unprotected, and the Cavs probably would've wanted more than that considering what the Cavs gave up.
 

GetInTheTruck

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Breh:russ:
Kp and kyrie alone with a quality coach keeps us as a contender in the east for the foreseeable future. Then we can focus on other things.

Im not sayin that would win us a automatic championship, im saying it would give us direction and 2 certified allstars to build our team around for the next 10 years lol

Its not a short term decision. Cap space and draft picks will come.

You really telling me you would turn dat down:picard:

Damn breh...hasn't the Melo era taught you that 2 names alone don't get you anywhere?
 

seemorecizzy

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Initially I wanted the Kyrie trade to go through but I backed away a bit based on this logic, but after seeing Willy's value get tanked, the Melo for Kanter trade,and seeing the way Kyrie and KP played this year, I would've traded Frank, Willy, and a protected pick for Kyrie if I had the chance to go back and do it. The Knicks would lack depth and assets, and would be forced to build the rest of the team through free agency, so I still see the logic in not doing the trade, but damn man, a guy like Kyrie is rarely available, it's hard not to let it tempt you. Kyrie would've had KP looking like an MVP for the whole season,not just part of it. Free agents would've been lining up to play with KP and Kyrie. I'm not upset that it didn't happen though, I'm still high on Frank and that hasn't changed over the course of the season, and as long as the Knicks hit on their picks this year, they'll be in a good position regardless; there's some game changing bigs with some crazy skill sets and a lot of quality wings in the upcoming draft, so while being bad sucks, if you're gonna be bad it's a pretty good year to do so.

Two picks is still too much though, especially if they're unprotected, and the Cavs probably would've wanted more than that considering what the Cavs gave up.
Can you explain this breh? Lmao
Willy never played
Frank is third string
What depth would be losing?
We would actually have two legit players to build around for the next 5-7 years if not more
All the players we have except kp are easily replacable
 

nyknick

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Breh:russ:
Kp and kyrie alone with a quality coach keeps us as a contender in the east for the foreseeable future. Then we can focus on other things.

Im not sayin that would win us a automatic championship, im saying it would give us direction and 2 certified allstars to build our team around for the next 10 years lol

Its not a short term decision. Cap space and draft picks will come.
Celtics with Kyrie and a better coach, a better team and better everything are not a contender.

KP and Kyrie wouldn't do shyt and as long as Noah's contract is on the books Knicks won't be shyt. Or maybe they should've used another first pick to get rid of Noah's contract and then when Kyrie decides not to resign end up without picks and players :shaq2:
 
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Can you explain this breh? Lmao
Willy never played
Frank is third string
What depth would be losing?
We would actually have two legit players to build around for the next 5-7 years if not more
All the players we have except kp are easily replacable

To be specific I think they're both players who can be quality pieces and = depth in a year or two, Frank especially. Even if Frank's ceiling is 3 and D guy, that's still a pretty coveted skill set and it's not easy to find those players for cheap.
 

seemorecizzy

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Celtics with Kyrie and a better coach, a better team and better everything are not a contender.

KP and Kyrie wouldn't do shyt and as long as Noah's contract is on the books Knicks won't be shyt. Or maybe they should've used another first pick to get rid of Noah's contract and then when Kyrie decides not to resign end up without picks and players :shaq2:
as long its understood that yall dont want kyrie irving on the knicks
we'll revisit this later:hubie:
 

storyteller

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Initially I wanted the Kyrie trade to go through but I backed away a bit based on this logic, but after seeing Willy's value get tanked, the Melo for Kanter trade,and seeing the way Kyrie and KP played this year, I would've traded Frank, Willy, and a protected pick for Kyrie if I had the chance to go back and do it. The Knicks would lack depth and assets, and would be forced to build the rest of the team through free agency, so I still see the logic in not doing the trade, but damn man, a guy like Kyrie is rarely available, it's hard not to let it tempt you. Kyrie would've had KP looking like an MVP for the whole season,not just part of it. Free agents would've been lining up to play with KP and Kyrie. I'm not upset that it didn't happen though, I'm still high on Frank and that hasn't changed over the course of the season, and as long as the Knicks hit on their picks this year, they'll be in a good position regardless; there's some game changing bigs with some crazy skill sets and a lot of quality wings in the upcoming draft, so while being bad sucks, if you're gonna be bad it's a pretty good year to do so.

Two picks is still too much though, especially if they're unprotected, and the Cavs probably would've wanted more than that considering what the Cavs gave up.

Yeah, I'd do a trade with a protected pick for sure. But to beat the Celtics offer, it'd have to be a lot more. Willy had more value but IT and Jae Crowder both had a LOT more value. Throw in the BK pick and the Cavs would have been nuts to take anything we had to offer.
 
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