[8/31/19] Page vs Jericho & PAC vs Omega, All Elite Wrestling Present: All Out

[Silkk]

It was a split crowd during him vs Kip Sabian. He wasn't more over than Jungleboy or MJF in the fatal fourway match. Not sure what you're hearing

Not sure what you’re smoking

 

[stro]

That title run wasn't successful because of the booking (coughTripleHcough). He was putting on great matches with Austin/Rock and the ratings were great. Then HHH came back and he turned into Stephanie's sidekick.

Uh...you're wrong. His title run wasn't successful from the jump because he was booked like an absolute geek in the build up to the unification matches, losing to Austin and Rock two times each in the 4 weeks between Survivor Series and Vengeance, and as soon as his full heel turn was cemented, he became a whiny, lame as fukk chickenshyt type of heel and lost all the juice and heat he had going during the Rock feud. On top of that, the matches at Vengeance weren't good and he won both matches with bullshyt finishes and they cut to Vince celebrating at the end of the show instead of Jericho.

2001 was also in an absolute free fall in terms of ratings after WM 17 and Jericho as champ did absolutely nothing to slow that down in the least. His great match (they only had one great match, and 2 other ones that didn't come close to matching it in 2001, and another in 2002 that didn't come close) with Rock was 2 months before the Unification match. His good matches with Austin were in May and June, 6 months before the unification match.

Of the 4 guys in the mini tournament, he was the worst choice to win both belts, and was booked to be the least likely to win so it would be shocking when he was the one, but instead it just made him lack any credibility. People forget that the build up included both Austin and Rock cutting promos about how shytty the booking and promoting was to have Angle and Jericho involved at all

His run was a flop before it even began, and the addition of Stephanie was an attempt to HELP it because Jericho was drowning but they wanted to have HHH win the title from him at WM. For example, after needing interference in both title matches at Vengeance, his first defense is against Austin in a cage....where he gets pummeled into a bloody mess, Austin had the match won and went back to beat his ass some more, and he needed a run in from Booker to win as he laid on the floor bloody and crying.

 

[GOAT]

Uh...you're wrong. His title run wasn't successful from the jump because he was booked like an absolute geek in the build up to the unification matches, losing to Austin and Rock two times each in the 4 weeks between Survivor Series and Vengeance, and as soon as his full heel turn was cemented, he became a whiny, lame as fukk chickenshyt type of heel and lost all the juice and heat he had going during the Rock feud. On top of that, the matches at Vengeance weren't good and he won both matches with bullshyt finishes and they cut to Vince celebrating at the end of the show instead of Jericho.

2001 was also in an absolute free fall in terms of ratings after WM 17 and Jericho as champ did absolutely nothing to slow that down in the least. His great match (they only had one great match, and 2 other ones that didn't come close to matching it in 2001, and another in 2002 that didn't come close) with Rock was 2 months before the Unification match. His good matches with Austin were in May and June, 6 months before the unification match.

Of the 4 guys in the mini tournament, he was the worst choice to win both belts, and was booked to be the least likely to win so it would be shocking when he was the one, but instead it just made him lack any credibility. People forget that the build up included both Austin and Rock cutting promos about how shytty the booking and promoting was to have Angle and Jericho involved at all

His run was a flop before it even began, and the addition of Stephanie was an attempt to HELP it because Jericho was drowning but they wanted to have HHH win the title from him at WM. For example, after needing interference in both title matches at Vengeance, his first defense is against Austin in a cage....where he gets pummeled into a bloody mess, Austin had the match won and went back to beat his ass some more, and he needed a run in from Booker to win as he laid on the floor bloody and crying.

nikka I said the title run wasn't successful because of the booking. The ratings were actually higher the months following his title win than they were before, and lower when he dropped the belt. Obviously most of this had to do with Hogan/NWO returning, but those guys were still there when the ratings dropped during HHH/Hogan's title reign.

Jericho vs Rock No Mercy: 4.5 stars
Jericho vs Rock Vengeance: 4 stars
Jericho vs Austin Vengeance: 3.25
Jericho vs Rock at Royal Rumble 2002: 4.25 Stars
Jericho vs Austin No Way Out: 3 stars

All of those at least solid matches, a few of them great matches. And nah, they didn't book him like a loser for shock value when he won. In fact, Angle was set to win it leading up to the PPV. He won it because they needed a heel to feed to HHH when he came back. It was a transitional reign until HHH was ready from the jump. @ booking Jericho as Stephanie's assistant in an attempt to salvage his title reign. If that was the case, then they're more stupid than I thought

 

[stro]

You put it on Stephanie and HHH. It was a flop 2 months before they were involved. Rock/Jericho at No Mercy was great and even that had a shytty bullshyt finish that made it impossible for Jericho to be legit afterwards. He wasn't booked as a legit main event before, during, or after the Invasion and despite main eventing Wrestlemania it still took another 8 years before he was seen as a true top guy.

My whole fukking point was that his AEW reign is going to suck, brah. Blame it on booking, blame it on him being 50 and 45 pounds over weight.

 

[GOAT]

You put it on Stephanie and HHH. It was a flop 2 months before they were involved. Rock/Jericho at No Mercy was great and even that had a shytty bullshyt finish that made it impossible for Jericho to be legit afterwards. He wasn't booked as a legit main event before, during, or after the Invasion and despite main eventing Wrestlemania it still took another 8 years before he was seen as a true top guy.

My whole fukking point was that his AEW reign is going to suck, brah. Blame it on booking, blame it on him being 50 and 45 pounds over weight.

Because HHH nixed every creative idea that made him look weak in the slightest and Stephanie was obsessed with being all over the show and being the focal point of storylines. Being a chicken shyt heel who barely escapes with the title isn't necessarily bad booking. Being a sidekick to a non wrestler and picking up dog shyt in an office is horrendous booking.

I disagree. I see no reason why his AEW reign will have any of those issues. Him with the belt is much better than the alternative, which is an overpushed babyface who mainstream audiences/casual fans have no familiarity with.

 

[DoubleJ13]

Pretty on this card. Show will probably end up being good but there's just something about it.

The stuff I'm really excited for is a match with zero build in PAC vs Omega where neither should lose & the Lucha Bros vs Young Bucks but I don't know how Fenix is doing since he got hurt last week.

Page vs Jericho & Cody vs Spears both probably dragging matches out to try & make them epics sounds like the perfect stuff to put on to go to sleep.

Riho vs Shida seems like the most random match possible since their doing that womens battle royal, don't even know if it's like Jericho vs Omega where the winner faces the battle royal winner for the title later.

Janela vs Allin vs Havoc I assume is a hardcore match, if it's not then I don't even know why their doing it. SCU vs A Boy & his Dinosaur featuring Marko Stunt is just there. Dark Order vs Best Friends could be good. Private Party vs Angelico & Evans should be fun.

 

[Cartier Murphy]

Cody’s been the most consistent performer since this kicked off and he’s stuck with bum ass Tye Dillinger on their big show

 

[Hey_zeus]

It was a split crowd during him vs Kip Sabian. He wasn't more over than Jungleboy or MJF in the fatal fourway match. Not sure what you're hearing

Luchasaurus is the real star long term for them. He gets bigger reaction then most of their "stars".

 

[stro]

Because HHH nixed every creative idea that made him look weak in the slightest and Stephanie was obsessed with being all over the show and being the focal point of storylines. Being a chicken shyt heel who barely escapes with the title isn't necessarily bad booking. Being a sidekick to a non wrestler and picking up dog shyt in an office is horrendous booking.

I disagree. I see no reason why his AEW reign will have any of those issues. Him with the belt is much better than the alternative, which is an overpushed babyface who mainstream audiences/casual fans have no familiarity with.

HHH wasn't nixing storylines for Chris Jericho 2 months before he returned from his injury


Jericho didn't have the juice to be undisputed champion, period. His crowd reactions had died off and his ring work was getting lethargic before they put the belts on him and long before HHH came back.

 

[The Ruler 09]

Jericho as champ would make a lot of send cause he could have entertaining feuds with numerous wrestlers. The benefits of Adam Page is that you instantly make him a bigger star and he’s will be regarded as a more homegrown talent. Jericho is the 1 who could carry it via promos etc though, I’d go with Jericho. He’s their biggest star, it would make sense to give him a good title run then eventually have him drop it to somebody ready to take the ball.

 

[SpacelySprockets]

If they went with Kenny or Cody then it would be “they going the HHH/JJ route” complaints

I mean theres not much of a difference between going that route and force feeding their close/less over buddy and stablemate into that position

 

[GOAT]

HHH wasn't nixing storylines for Chris Jericho 2 months before he returned from his injury


Jericho didn't have the juice to be undisputed champion, period. His crowd reactions had died off and his ring work was getting lethargic before they put the belts on him and long before HHH came back.

His work with Rock and Austin was fine and he absolutely was over with the crowd, not sure what you're talking about. It was when he started working with HHH where it went downhill. And lo and behold, he was over again once he stopped working with HHH.

 

[Bryan Danielson]

I mean theres not much of a difference between going that route and force feeding their close/less over buddy and stablemate into that position

Lesser evil unless you down with AEW World Champ Darby Allen or Michael Nakazawa

 

[stro]

His work with Rock and Austin was fine and he absolutely was over with the crowd, not sure what you're talking about. It was when he started working with HHH where it went downhill. And lo and behold, he was over again once he stopped working with HHH.

He was not nearly as over a heel as he was as a face earlier in the year and even as a tweener during the first part of the feud with Rock. Maybe if you were only watching Smackdown and hearing the piped crowd noise could you possibly think he was as over post-heel turn.

 

[FromStLouis]

Watching this special on TNT right now