2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races
- Thread starter mc_brew
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storyteller
Veteran
On the left, skepticism about Warren on certain issues with foreign policy (some past moves in relation to Israel for example) is pretty common fam. Add in positive votes on military budget increases (I'm not very moved by this criticism but see it often) and that military/climate change bill...people see red flags. Personally, I don't think it's bad and I feel like we can pull her left on the foreign policy aspects with fair and honest criticism. But even though I don't see it as much of a problem, it's not a bad faith argument. Heads sincerely see red flags on it.
storyteller
Veteran
Obama couldn't shake the Socialist label from ROMNEYCARE. What fantasy world are these guys living in?
Also that Lee Fang comment is just seems a bit contradictory to his overall message, "If people only like Bernie because of his label and not his policy work..." in the midst of arguing that Bernie's label is what's costing him votes. It's like "Bernie's Label shouldn't matter, so he should change it to get more support" but doesn't that mean his label does matter?
Unfortunately the label does matter to a certain extent. And I don’t think it would damage him in a general election. It’s getting out of the primary where it’s bad.
Bernie is doing terrible with older voters. Older voters hate socialism. Older liberals despise Bernie in general.
Bernie either needs youth to vote in droves which ain’t happening or he’s got to do something to peel off more 55+ year olds.
storyteller
Veteran
I agree with all of this. I have a problem with Lee Fang making a thread about how bad the label is but defending his position by saying the label shouldn't matter to Bernie's voters. My stance here is that Labels shouldn't be treated with such importance, but they are. I don't remove that principle when I'm talking to Bernie supporters, I apply it across the board. I don't think Lee Fang was doing that.
But this is where I fall to my other point, I think it's pure fantasy that Bernie could shake the Socialist label. Do you think labeling himself a New Dealer would stop media outlets from mentioning that he campaigned as a "Socialist" for his entire political career up until now? What is the actual strategy to separate himself and his policies from that label? And the biggest piece of frustration I have with this is that it once again causes people to argue about the stupid label and not the content of his speech which included plenty to discuss and think about. That 21st century economic bill of rights concept should be a topic of discussion moreso than "omg he said Democratic Socialist...bad politics." Now circle back at that lee fang tweet again, "his record, his values, his policies..." but Fang isn't talking about ANY of that. He's just focused on the label.
Reality Check
Keepin' it 100
2020 would be too soon. 2018 was the first time in 10 years there was a true dem wave so congressmen/women not named AOC who were elected last November probably won't be a national election player until 2024 at the earliest. The one thing they need to do though is go after these seats in the house or senate. Abrams and Beto should be running for senate in 2020; Mayor Pete should be eyeing a senate seat the next time one opens in Indiana.
storyteller
Veteran
I think I'm not getting my point across clearly on the Lee Fang tweet.
The contradictory comments I'm talking about are not:
A) Bernie has popularized Democratic Socialism
B) Primary voters won't support Bernie because of the Democratic Socialist label.
I understand and accept that fully.
The contradiction I'm talking about is:
A) Bernie Sanders' label is costing him voters
B) Bernie Sanders' voters shouldn't care about his label
But that's small fries. Going back to that first point which we both accept, I don't see a realistic strategy where Bernie could separate himself and his policies from the label of Socialist after using it for his entire career. Not only is there footage of him claiming Socialist for each of the last 3 or 4 decades; but even if he tried to distance himself, other campaigns and the media narrative wouldn't let that happen. So
A) Yes, Bernie's label of Democratic Socialist is problematic specifically with Boomers.
B) But, the idea that he can just shake the label by calling himself a new dealer seems hopelessly naive to me in the current political paradigm.
So my question is, what would the strategy even look like that placates Boomer concerns about Bernie being a socialist? Matt Stoller's tweets don't actually say anything other than "FDR wasn't a socialist," Obamacare wasn't a socialist program...it didn't change the scrutiny or labeling that the legislation received. We can go over plenty of examples where labels don't match reality (for conservatives: Obama being a muslim or not being a citizen).
intra vires
Glory to Michigan
I guess being a professional black friend can only get you so far.
Even this is wrong. There are levels to ownership. This is an oversimplification which is the basis for this dumb discussion.
A lot of theorizing when we have elections to win.
That is my frustration with left wing twitter.
John Reena
Superstar
They tried using old videos, ugly disgruntled women, and now dusting off Anita Hill.
Still can’t stop Uncle Joe.
Biden Boyz
Get Down Or Lay Down
2020
Still can’t stop Uncle Joe.
Biden Boyz
Get Down Or Lay Down
2020
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
This is the USA. The most you will get is a more responsible military. You will not have a pacifist country.
This is why warren is better.
She’s pushing the policies Bernie wants but in the envelope of a social democrat. She’s not letting the label wrap her up. And she will be more successful because of it.