storyteller

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Oh, you don't have to convince me that MSNBC is pure shyt. It's the worst of #resistance dreck. And I agree that she can bounce back with the MSNBC lane precisely because they're so focused on the superficial stuff that enabled Pete to rise in the first place.

Co-sign TF outta this. We've seen this bump for Harris and Beto too. Warren rose slowly through those then popped for a minute and I look at this as an overcorrection the opposite way. But she'll go back to rising. I think her rebound will mimic Bernie's, the only bad thing is that he dip hit later in the cycle. But that could line up the enthusiasm rebound for right in time to pull the news cycle before the first primaries.

These are two fair points. She opened up that lane herself, but my point is that she is being battle-tested because of it. If she wins the nomination, it sure as hell won't have been a coronation, she'll have fought and earned it. Also, there's a difference between critiques (even bad-faith ones) against legitimate issues like her M4A transition and financing plan stuff and the type of conspiracy-theory mongering like the pregnancy smears and private practice stuff. The latter is what Trump specializes in and may get foregrounded in the election like it was last year with the Podesta emails and Pizzagate stuff.


I should have mentioned I was focusing on the front-runners, so I wasn't including Tusli or Yang. Hell, if everyone is included, I would say Marianne is probably the recipient of the most bad-faith attacks. And yeah, we saw Bernie dealing with more bad-faith smears and attacks back in 2016, but I think the play from the anti-Bernie forces this time around is to ignore him instead of confronting and attacking him. But that will change if he wins the Democratic nomination and the GOP starts dredging up dirt.

Got you fam and once you adjust for front runners (I'd assume top four making the cut), I'm inclined to agree. She also has my favorite bad faith attack of all time in the dude with the Triple X tattoo that said she had an affair with him. That didn't catch on, but Warren the Dominatrix was a hilarious attempt. In terms of the dirty shots, Warren has taken more BS starting with the Native American stuff (Boston Globe debunked years ago) and riding to now. Bernie's been dismissed or side swiped through attacks that pair the two. Warren has caught the additional crap and I'd add that her approach which has been well to the left of the Biden's and Pete's and also right of Bernie has created a realm where she can potentially get targeted by both bad faith leftist and centrist attacks.

Put it this way, I think Bernie and Warren heads should be ideological allies. But she's just right enough of Bernie for the more center leaning heads to antagonize the lefties and vice versa. That means a bad faith actor on one side draws an equally bad faith rebuttal on the other and we're off to the damned races with Nap and Berniewood alienating potential allies over Tad Devine and Native American jokes.


Bolded is an important point. I think the left generally suffers from the idea that their beliefs are more popular than they actually are. I'm not convinced at all that raising middle class taxes is something the general public will willingly swallow down with a glass of "overall costs will go down". I'm not convinced that eradicating private insurance will be as easy a sell as some on the left seem to think it will be. I'm not even sure the general public believes in new universal (truly universal, which means including black folks as well) policies very much, but I hope Pete getting smacked down on this proves the public is ready. These are positions Bernie holds that open him up as a target for bad faith smears and attacks. Whereas Bernie has been able to skate by on hammering his message on these, Liz has actually had to counter-punch. She's been hit and gotten up again. She has a proven chin. I think Bernie has one too, but I'm not as sure.

This definitely gets at the million dollar question for a Bernie run. I don't think it's popularity though, just exposure. My belief on this tip is that the enthusiasm of Bernie heads comes with a lot of canvassing, calling and recruiting pitches that has a lot of heads seeing the impact a conversation about these policies can have. It's a lot different debating these policies in some "gotcha" game on a forum than it is asking somebody what they're looking for and explaining how a Sanders or Warren plan can get them that security. Plus, you end up honing your messaging to the point that you can elevator pitch it and know exactly what questions are comings (my confidence about the payroll tax comes from "how will you pay for it" convos dating back to the last election cycle).

The bigger fear for me is how much poisoning of the well will happen. The bad faith stuff doubles up on these policies. The ACA got attacked for having Death Panels and a lot of people believed that BS. They'll try the same for any advancement, Public Option included. They already are according to the article that just got dropped in this thread about state legislators pushing out op-eds written by the same one dude repping the same one lobbying group (two dems and one republican). I got that ish fully transcribed in the Bernie thread too. That's the crap we're gonna need to counteract and it won't be easy regardless of what legislation we're fighting for. But that's also why I like the Universal Coverage aspect, it fits that elevator pitch I mentioned before.

Everyone gets coverage, every doctor is in network and it's cheaper according to even conservative think tanks.

If we can beat those home then most people will be willing to ask the clarifying questions that can at least open them up to the idea being possible. The wait times thing is the one I don't have a quick easy answer, but I usually go with anecdotes about how long I already have to wait to get an appointment with the dentist I prefer to see (and I throw in that I have to find a new one soon because my coverage is changing for good measure).
 

afterlife2009

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f4d30e-0bb0-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

The campaign has also worked to line up supporters — which wasn’t always an easy sell.

A key person in validating Warren’s plan has been Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), the House sponsor of the Medicare-for-all legislation, who praised it despite the objections of some members of her staff, according to two people familiar with the discussions.

The congressional staffers have expressed reservations that Warren’s plan would not push for a single-payer system until the third year of her administration, according to these people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak frankly of the staffers’ private views about internal talks. Jayapal’s spokesman denied that claim.
@King Kreole Pramila's staff on her neck :lolbron:
 

Warren Moon

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What are you basing this off of

she didn’t get rid of medical necessity.

She hasn’t showcased many CBC members in her race or beforehand.

she only started pushing hbcus after her first election
 

dora_da_destroyer

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cramer and the ehealth dude he's interviewing are conveniently shytting on M4A...M4A likely poisoned even a public option at this point. this is one policy area where i wish the conversation would've been rooted in a more realistic plan as opposed to M4A
 

JMurder

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she didn’t get rid of medical necessity.

She hasn’t showcased many CBC members in her race or beforehand.

she only started pushing hbcus after her first election
Warren has made a lot of progress with members of the CBC, and is one of the few candidates who has actually impressed members of the caucus. One of the few candidates who actually seem like they're interested in the issues brought up. Her affordable housing plan is co-sponsored by 6 members of the Black Caucus.

I can concede the other two points as being negative marks on Warren... But if I'm gonna be honest, based on what I'm hearing from multiple Podcast and radio sources, Warren is the only front runner who hasn't taken the black vote for granted in the past four years or said any inflammatory remarks in regards to race (unless you wanna count her claiming native American).
 

dora_da_destroyer

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I really fukk with Booker man. I don't think he's gotten a fair shake through this process. I've felt this for awhile even before seeing this clip.
i think he's been treated quite fairly, but he came into senate as a "big name", didn't keep the momentum, jumped into a crowded race with diminished name recognition in a cycle where virtue signaling about not being backed by big money was the theme du jour and unfortunately for him he has ties to big pharma. the articles i've read covering him have mostly spoken about him positively, but the reality is he never had traction/timing wasn't right for him. he could be an interesting VP pick depending on who the nominee is

edit: and i'm someone who really wanted to like him with the school ties and all, but it wasn't meant to be for him from jump
 
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