2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[afterlife2009]

Again you are missing the point. This is not about Warren going down. It is about support for M4A in general going down. Y’all are so focused on Warren y’all are not looking at the damage M4A as a policy is talking. Some of you are not living in political reality. Even the link you posted states that support for M4A is narrowing. I hear progressives say all the time if you ask the question like this it will be more popular. The reality is most polling outlets are not going to ask the question saying if you get to keep your doctor. BTW M4A is not polling fine. These quotes is from the polling company you cited in your post.

“Medicare-for-all, an issue is on the minds of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents at the beginning of the 2020 primary season but KFF polling finds more Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents would prefer voting for a candidate who wants to build on the ACA in order to expand coverage and reduce costs rather than replace the ACA with a national Medicare-for-all plan”

“And while partisans are divided on a Medicare-for-all national health plan, there is robust support among Democrats, and even support among Republicans, for an expansion of the Medicare program through a Medicare buy-in or a Medicaid buy-in proposal “
This means we are losing the argument.
I’m not both siding anything, it is just a nuanced point. And it was more than just Bernie twitter. It was progressive media in general, and Bernie himself took a small shot at the plan in a main stream media outlet. Never said you can’t have disagreements with the plan. Sam Seder was critical of Warren plan but he did it in a way were it wouldn’t damage M4A itself. And of course main stream media fear mongering hurts more, but that’s a given.

This is major concern for me. Without the threat of M4A we probably wouldn’t even get a strong public option. We can still get M4A up in popularity again but progressives are going have to change the messaging.

I'm not saying M4A hasn't taken a beating this cycle, I'm just saying it's still above water in other polls. Corporate news and other centrists have been lying about single payer so they're gonna run with this "it's at 36% in this Q-poll" as gospel. That poll also wants me to believe that Warren dropped -14, that's nuts. She definitely lost support but not that much.

When her and bernie were dunking on centrists, she was gaining and passed him in the averages partly due to her support of single payer. I mean she was gaining after raising her hand about eliminating private insurance. I just think Jacobin/Bernie twitter/progressive youtube had minimal impact because they were already skeptical during her rise and it wasn't until the Colbert interview/October debate when her decline began and the big time news places started going negative on medicare.

Everyone is within 5-10 points of each other in Iowa/NH so ground can be made up and Pete needs to be dunked on at the next debate so opinions on single payer can shift in the way we want. Anyways have a nice thanksgiving to you and everybody in this thread

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

thinking this cast member from a 90s version of the real world knows shyt about policy is laughable...he spent the last few months seeding doubt about anything earnestly she did while sanders was out here with the same tired, unevolved stump speech from 5 years ago

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

i think this is all bullshyt, warren was NEVER really behind M4A so acting like its Bernie supporters fault is bs, her original head tax plan was trash and would never pass and this two part plan is even worse. but then nap has the nerve to lie and act like bernie just says shyt. no, salary tax and one bill is much more likely to pass then what Warren wanted, but like I said its not even about her plan, her plan was always going to be half assed because I never actually thought she was for m4a. she didnt start off saying she was, then she did in the first couple debates and then she came out with two bogus plans.

and gtfoh nap , harris, warren, etc didnt fall back because m4a isnt "serious" its because their corporate donors told them to back off

Bernie's funding mechanism doesn't even work but no one wants to address that because the media doesn't take Bernie seriously.

they scrutinize the more serious plan and ignore the even more ridiculous plan.

If yall think this is about FUNDING MECHANISM you're fukking delusional.

Everyone signed on to M4A tentative plans!

Its the implementation that serious politicians evaluated.

People laughed at Kamala's 10 year roll over but ignored the fact that the ACAs individual mandate didn't start until 5 years later and took fukking almost 8 years to show improvement in the long run!

This shyt ain't as easy as sanders keeps saying it is

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm not saying M4A hasn't taken a beating this cycle, I'm just saying it's still above water in other polls. Corporate news and other centrists have been lying about single payer so they're gonna run with this "it's at 36% in this Q-poll" as gospel. That poll also wants me to believe that Warren dropped -14, that's nuts. She definitely lost support but not that much.

When her and bernie were dunking on centrists, she was gaining and passed him in the averages partly due to her support of single payer. I mean she was gaining after raising her hand about eliminating private insurance. I just think Jacobin/Bernie twitter/progressive youtube had minimal impact because they were already skeptical during her rise and it wasn't until the Colbert interview/October debate when her decline began and the big time news places started going negative on medicare.

Everyone is within 5-10 points of each other in Iowa/NH so ground can be made up and Pete needs to be dunked on at the next debate so opinions on single payer can shift in the way we want. Anyways have a nice thanksgiving to you and everybody in this thread

you losers will simultaneously attack Obama while doing nothing to prop him up when his poll numbers fall for going so far left.

You gotta realize that the USA is NOT EUROPE.

I keep telling yall this.

He keeps saying he agrees with you, but courage isnt cheap and it comes at a cost of acting GETTING. SHÏT. DONE.

 

[King Kreole]

What? Don't hitch M4A to Warren's legacy. Voters who are M4A fence sitters are not leaving Warren over her healthcare plan. That doesn't make sense and it doesn't correlate with Pete's "rejuvenation" in the polls.


Wait, so now it's Bernie supporters fault for pushing M4A fence sitters away from Warren? It has nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi coming out against M4A? It has nothing to do with Biden and Pete telling voters that they would lose their plans? It has nothing to do with the ad blitz from insurance companies?

Neither of you are reading the Warren to Pete media flop well enough.

The same time period when he says blacks won't vote for him because he's gay and then lies about his support from black representatives he goes UP in the polls. Also the issue is completely swept under the rug at the debates.

I'm telling y'all that you're being played.

I wasn’t talking about voters when I mentioned M4A-fence-sitters, I was talking about legislators. People whose support would actually be needed to enact M4A. This isn’t about Warren’s legacy, it’s about building support for a movement. If the first time someone who isn’t Bernie tries to advocate for M4A and gets shredded by both the centrists and the leftists because she’s not Bernie and didn’t follow his recipe to the exact T, the message that sends to Democratic lawmakers who are thinking about joining the movement to get to universal, single-payer healthcare that it is absolutely not worth the fight because you will get pressure from the interests groups trying to destroy M4A and will not have a unified, robust progressive movement to back you up in that fight. You’re going into a street fight alone. Again, nothing I’m saying here isn’t what Jayapal has been saying.

And the poll movement supports this theory more than yours, which is why we seeing idiots like Kulinsky now claiming that apparently the “strongest proponent of M4A” is Pete Buttigieg not Bernie Sanders. If Warren was really getting dinged for putting out a “fake” M4A plan, then the voters who left her would be going to Bernie, and he would be surging into 2nd place, not Pete. Because they cannot bring themselves to admit that Bernie’s M4A plan, when fully explained and scrutinized, isn’t as popular as they thought, they have to resort to fictions about Bernie being the beneficiary of Liz’s decline. It’s deranged.

Bernie’s camp has been tagged with the reputation of being cult-like and very hostile to outsiders. Whether that’s true or not (and it’s becoming increasingly evident it’s true), that’s the perception he faces. “Not Me, Us” is a fantastic and powerful political slogan, but it’s not being lived by his supporters. If y’all think you have enough support as is to get to M4A without having to win over anyone not currently on the train, god bless ya.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I wasn’t talking about voters when I mentioned M4A-fence-sitters, I was talking about legislators. People whose support would actually be needed to enact M4A. This isn’t about Warren’s legacy, it’s about building support for a movement. If the first time someone who isn’t Bernie tries to advocate for M4A and gets shredded by both the centrists and the leftists because she’s not Bernie and didn’t follow his recipe to the exact T, the message that sends to Democratic lawmakers who are thinking about joining the movement to get to universal, single-payer healthcare that it is absolutely not worth the fight because you will get pressure from the interests groups trying to destroy M4A and will not have a unified, robust progressive movement to back you up in that fight. You’re going into a street fight alone. Again, nothing I’m saying here isn’t what Jayapal has been saying.

And the poll movement supports this theory more than yours, which is why we seeing idiots like Kulinsky now claiming that apparently the “strongest proponent of M4A” is Pete Buttigieg not Bernie Sanders. If Warren was really getting dinged for putting out a “fake” M4A plan, then the voters who left her would be going to Bernie, and he would be surging into 2nd place, not Pete. Because they cannot bring themselves to admit that Bernie’s M4A plan, when fully explained and scrutinized, isn’t as popular as they thought, they have to resort to fictions about Bernie being the beneficiary of Liz’s decline. It’s deranged.

Bernie’s camp has been tagged with the reputation of being cult-like and very hostile to outsiders. Whether that’s true or not (and it’s becoming increasingly evident it’s true), that’s the perception he faces. “Not Me, Us” is a fantastic and powerful political slogan, but it’s not being lived by his supporters. If y’all think you have enough support as is to get to M4A without having to win over anyone not currently on the train, god bless ya.

honestly Jayapal should just support Warren at this point. She sees the bullshyt Sanders and his team are pulling

 

[King Kreole]

honestly Jayapal should just support Warren at this point. She sees the bullshyt Sanders and his team are pulling

Even if she prefers Bernie and thinks he’s a stronger voice on this issue, endorsing Liz would be a strategic move to shore up the dams and show M4A has support outside of just Bernie-world. There is important work to be done to build out its political viability, but from the way Bernie-stans have been moving, you’d think this thing was ready to pass immediately as long as he gets elected. The hero worship is disturbing and very contradictory to his actual message.

I still like Bernie very much and I think he knows all of this, which is why he’s usually backed her up and has been very comradely to her besides that statement about her funding plan hurting business. It’s his support base and advisors that are the issue, and my concern is the paranoia and conspiratorial thinking amongst them will lead him to make bad, stupid decisions.

 

[Warren Moon]

That is not my point at all. I myself have said Bernie is better on healthcare than Warren. What I said is the way some of Bernie supporters attacked Warren M4A would not bold well for M4A popularity. I think we forget that the average person do not understand all the nuances in policy. What the average voter see was both moderates and progressives shytting on M4A.

Again you are missing the point. This is not about Warren going down. It is about support for M4A in general going down. Y’all are so focused on Warren y’all are not looking at the damage M4A as a policy is taking. Some of you are not living in political reality. Even the link you posted states that support for M4A is narrowing. I hear progressives say all the time if you ask the question like this it will be more popular. The reality is most polling outlets are not going to ask the question saying if you get to keep your doctor. BTW M4A is not polling fine. These quotes is from the polling company you cited in your post.

“Medicare-for-all, an issue is on the minds of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents at the beginning of the 2020 primary season but KFF polling finds more Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents would prefer voting for a candidate who wants to build on the ACA in order to expand coverage and reduce costs rather than replace the ACA with a national Medicare-for-all plan”

“And while partisans are divided on a Medicare-for-all national health plan, there is robust support among Democrats, and even support among Republicans, for an expansion of the Medicare program through a Medicare buy-in or a Medicaid buy-in proposal “
This means we are losing the argument.
I’m not both siding anything, it is just a nuanced point. And it was more than just Bernie twitter. It was progressive media in general, and Bernie himself took a small shot at the plan in a main stream media outlet. Never said you can’t have disagreements with the plan. Sam Seder was critical of Warren plan but he did it in a way were it wouldn’t damage M4A itself. And of course main stream media fear mongering hurts more, but that’s a given.

This is major concern for me. Without the threat of M4A we probably wouldn’t even get a strong public option. We can still get M4A up in popularity again but progressives are going have to change the messaging.

I wasn’t talking about voters when I mentioned M4A-fence-sitters, I was talking about legislators. People whose support would actually be needed to enact M4A. This isn’t about Warren’s legacy, it’s about building support for a movement. If the first time someone who isn’t Bernie tries to advocate for M4A and gets shredded by both the centrists and the leftists because she’s not Bernie and didn’t follow his recipe to the exact T, the message that sends to Democratic lawmakers who are thinking about joining the movement to get to universal, single-payer healthcare that it is absolutely not worth the fight because you will get pressure from the interests groups trying to destroy M4A and will not have a unified, robust progressive movement to back you up in that fight. You’re going into a street fight alone. Again, nothing I’m saying here isn’t what Jayapal has been saying.

And the poll movement supports this theory more than yours, which is why we seeing idiots like Kulinsky now claiming that apparently the “strongest proponent of M4A” is Pete Buttigieg not Bernie Sanders. If Warren was really getting dinged for putting out a “fake” M4A plan, then the voters who left her would be going to Bernie, and he would be surging into 2nd place, not Pete. Because they cannot bring themselves to admit that Bernie’s M4A plan, when fully explained and scrutinized, isn’t as popular as they thought, they have to resort to fictions about Bernie being the beneficiary of Liz’s decline. It’s deranged.

Bernie’s camp has been tagged with the reputation of being cult-like and very hostile to outsiders. Whether that’s true or not (and it’s becoming increasingly evident it’s true), that’s the perception he faces. “Not Me, Us” is a fantastic and powerful political slogan, but it’s not being lived by his supporters. If y’all think you have enough support as is to get to M4A without having to win over anyone not currently on the train, god bless ya.

Even if she prefers Bernie and thinks he’s a stronger voice on this issue, endorsing Liz would be a strategic move to shore up the dams and show M4A has support outside of just Bernie-world. There is important work to be done to build out its political viability, but from the way Bernie-stans have been moving, you’d think this thing was ready to pass immediately as long as he gets elected. The hero worship is disturbing and very contradictory to his actual message.

I still like Bernie very much and I think he knows all of this, which is why he’s usually backed her up and has been very comradely to her besides that statement about her funding plan hurting business. It’s his support base and advisors that are the issue, and my concern is the paranoia and conspiratorial thinking amongst them will lead him to make bad, stupid decisions.

Y’all putting way too much power on warren fukking up.

well before “warren the chameleon” supported Medicare for all , ppl have been pushing it. Tbh her fukking up has a very minimal effect on m4all As a long term goal.

the Democratic Party as a whole is still on the m4all path via a public option.

Aca - public option - m4all. Her terrible candidacy hasn’t changed up that path one bit. We are still going in that direction.

You’ll never get outright support from everyone within the Democratic Party to go all out, bc everyone in the Party didn’t get a seat at the table to craft the current message.

All dems are on board to eventually get to M4all. Bernie and Liz won’t get broad support bc theyre already showing that the treatment of healthcare will eventually become a political game.

They purposely refused to remove “medical necessity” bc they’re Trying to force other (black) dems to blindly support other things they don’t like in the bill.

Everyone needs to have an equal input on M4all. Playing with southern blacks healthcare is disgusting. I’m proud as fukk that the ppl we voted for refuse to kneel to the “Twitter fueled” northern dem elites.

This is just a small taste of what m4all will be. A political game, negotiating who lives and who dies. Get used to it.

we haven’t even started negotiating with republicans yet


Warren has nothing to do with the movement And is insignificant. She tries to act like it, but no one will care or remember her when we actually have a chance to get this done

 

[Oville]

you losers will simultaneously attack Obama while doing nothing to prop him up when his poll numbers fall for going so far left.

You gotta realize that the USA is NOT EUROPE.

I keep telling yall this.

He keeps saying he agrees with you, but courage isnt cheap and it comes at a cost of acting GETTING. SHÏT. DONE.

Being able to pass legislation ain't enough. Biden's authored and co authored several legislations that have been terrible and have resulted in much of the backlash people have of the Democratic party overall. Getting shyt done for some people isnt about getting something passed. That's surface level shyt. Its about what you pass. A Bernie presidency doesn't stop and end with him. Its about using his political capital to get other leaders to step up with the same ideas so that shyt that's substsntive can actually get passed. Your not gonna know much political capital certain ideas and policies have unless you actually make the case for them.

 

[John Reena]

Spam on Thanksgivin!

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Being able to pass legislation ain't enough. Biden's authored and co authored several legislations that have been terrible and have resulted in much of the backlash people have of the Democratic party overall. Getting shyt done for some people isnt about getting something passed. That's surface level shyt. Its about what you pass. A Bernie presidency doesn't stop and end with him. Its about using his political capital to get other leaders to step up with the same ideas so that shyt that's substsntive can actually get passed. Your not gonna know much political capital certain ideas and policies have unless you actually make the case for them.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Even if she prefers Bernie and thinks he’s a stronger voice on this issue, endorsing Liz would be a strategic move to shore up the dams and show M4A has support outside of just Bernie-world. There is important work to be done to build out its political viability, but from the way Bernie-stans have been moving, you’d think this thing was ready to pass immediately as long as he gets elected. The hero worship is disturbing and very contradictory to his actual message.

I still like Bernie very much and I think he knows all of this, which is why he’s usually backed her up and has been very comradely to her besides that statement about her funding plan hurting business. It’s his support base and advisors that are the issue, and my concern is the paranoia and conspiratorial thinking amongst them will lead him to make bad, stupid decisions.

The way Bernie dragged his feet on trying to help Clinton should have been a warning. He really will burn this all down just to feel like he’s making gains.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Even if she prefers Bernie and thinks he’s a stronger voice on this issue, endorsing Liz would be a strategic move to shore up the dams and show M4A has support outside of just Bernie-world. There is important work to be done to build out its political viability, but from the way Bernie-stans have been moving, you’d think this thing was ready to pass immediately as long as he gets elected. The hero worship is disturbing and very contradictory to his actual message.

I still like Bernie very much and I think he knows all of this, which is why he’s usually backed her up and has been very comradely to her besides that statement about her funding plan hurting business. It’s his support base and advisors that are the issue, and my concern is the paranoia and conspiratorial thinking amongst them will lead him to make bad, stupid decisions.

Honestly I don’t even care about Medicare for all at this point because it’s obvious people are NOT trying to win 2020 and are forgetting how serious another trump administration would be. Any change to healthcare is gonna need a Congress full of democrats and people like sanders who can’t even see a win in A public option or trying to help democrats is why he’s doomed to failure anyways.

 

[A.R.$]

Y’all putting way too much power on warren fukking up.

well before “warren the chameleon” supported Medicare for all , ppl have been pushing it. Tbh her fukking up has a very minimal effect on m4all As a long term goal.

the Democratic Party as a whole is still on the m4all path via a public option.

Aca - public option - m4all. Her terrible candidacy hasn’t changed up that path one bit. We are still going in that direction.

You’ll never get outright support from everyone within the Democratic Party to go all out, bc everyone in the Party didn’t get a seat at the table to craft the current message.

All dems are on board to eventually get to M4all. Bernie and Liz won’t get broad support bc theyre already showing that the treatment of healthcare will eventually become a political game.

They purposely refused to remove “medical necessity” bc they’re Trying to force other (black) dems to blindly support other things they don’t like in the bill.

Everyone needs to have an equal input on M4all. Playing with southern blacks healthcare is disgusting. I’m proud as fukk that the ppl we voted for refuse to kneel to the “Twitter fueled” northern dem elites.

This is just a small taste of what m4all will be. A political game, negotiating who lives and who dies. Get used to it.

we haven’t even started negotiating with republicans yet


Warren has nothing to do with the movement And is insignificant. She tries to act like it, but no one will care or remember her when we actually have a chance to get this done

Again this is not really about Warren. It is about framing through the eyes of the average voter. M4A and even a public option have little room for error. Mainstream media already shyts on M4A all day everyday. You can’t have both moderates and progressives talking negative about M4A. Once we get offline and talk to average people, they are not deciphering all of the specifics of the policy. In real life I have yet to run into anyone that truly understands what M4A is, and they are confused when listening to a deep dives on it. And i’m not talking about people that are low information voters. I’m talking about people that are highly educated. For example when people were freaking out over the head tax nobody I talked to even knew what a head tax was. And this is not just antidotal evidence. Polling shows that people don’t really know or understand the details. This is why Sanders number are not dramatically going up even through Warren numbers are going down. If Bernie was going up like Buttigieg then I would say people are just down on Warren. But that is not the case. M4A policy as a whole is taking a hit.

This is a major problem even for a public option. The same thing the media is doing to drive down support for M4A will be the same tactic they use to oppose a public option. They even called The ACA a socialist program. Once M4A is out the paint they will start asking how do you pay for a public option, and if people will be able to keep their doctors. The insurance companies will come after the public option just as hard as they will come after M4A. If M4A is not even a threat, then the public option becomes the most radical position. That makes the likelihood of a strong public option less likely, and we might have to settle on something like Regional Health Alliances like what Bill and Hillary was proposing in the early 90s.

As far as we are on the path for M4A yes and no.
National healthcare was first proposed by Harry Truman in 1945. It is 74 years later and we still don’t have it. Yes we are closer then we were in the 2000s, but we were much closer to getting National Healthcare in the 60s and 70s.

 

[mastermind]

Dems are gonna control the Virginia legislature and Northam is the Dem Governor. Yet Dems don’t want to repeal right to work laws.

These are the people the Democratic Party chase.