10 Wins aint what it used to be: Official 2016 New York Jets Offseason thread

[FaTaL]

No offense, breh, but I think he and his staff of scouts know more than any of us.

he has the measurables but was one of the worst div 1 qbs out there

 

[Marlostanfield.]

You'd be surprised honestly. People shyt on Idzik but at least he had the sense to acquire picks especially when you don't have a QB.

And wasted majority of them. Pick is worthless if you're taking trash.

 

[King Crimson]

You'd be surprised honestly. People shyt on Idzik but at least he had the sense to acquire picks especially when you don't have a QB.

But how many of those picks panned out outside of the obvious-can't miss ones? I'm mostly joking about loving the Hackenburg pick, but the fact of the matter is, we need a QB to win and I think Mac and Co understand that. I'd rather roll with Geno/Petty/Hack and draft a QB every year than keep rolling with Fitz. He's hit his ceiling.

he has the measurables but was one of the worst div 1 qbs out there

I know that, but we gotta be real with the situation that he was in. I refuse to believe all the talent and skill he showed that first year just disappeared. At the very least, he seems (I repeat, seems) like he has football smarts.

 

[Trip]

And wasted majority of them. Pick is worthless if you're taking trash.

He only had two years though. Now we're fukked with no cap space and still no QB

 

[Trip]

But how many of those picks panned out outside of the obvious-can't miss ones? I'm mostly joking about loving the Hackenburg pick, but the fact of the matter is, we need a QB to win and I think Mac and Co understand that. I'd rather roll with Geno/Petty/Hack and draft a QB every year than keep rolling with Fitz. He's hit his ceiling.

I know that, but we gotta be real with the situation that he was in. I refuse to believe all the talent and skill he showed that first year just disappeared. At the very least, he seems (I repeat, seems) like he has football smarts.

I don't mind taking a QB. The issue I have is if you do like 10 seconds of research and compare him to other guys drafted over the last 30 years with similar numbers all couldnt play. Plus he's got the small hands and takes sacks. At least Geno put up big numbers in college...but with him and Hack if you take sacks and fumble you can't play.

 

[Frump]

Macagnan said he learned from Ron Wolf to draft a qb every year till you find a good one hopefully he'll eventually hit

Not a fan of this qb but he was a huge recruit coming out of hs played well his freshmen year then he slipped under Franklin who is not a good coach offensively to put it kindly

 

[Frump]

I don't mind taking a QB. The issue I have is if you do like 10 seconds of research and compare him to other guys drafted over the last 30 years with similar numbers all couldnt play. Plus he's got the small hands and takes sacks. At least Geno put up big numbers in college...but with him and Hack if you take sacks and fumble you can't play.

College is such a different game from the pros with huge variables that I don't judge prospects against each other on stats

What stats don't measure is that Hackenberg went to a school where the talent at the time was destroyed by sanctions. He was literally playing behind a line at one point where half the guys never played on the oline before and came from different positions because of the lack of depth

Add in how awful Franklin is and there are excuses you can use

 

[Trip]

College is such a different game from the pros with huge variables that I don't judge prospects against each other on stats

What stats don't measure is that Hackenberg went to a school where the talent at the time was destroyed by sanctions. He was literally playing behind a line at one point where half the guys never played on the oline before and came from different positions because of the lack of depth

Add in how awful Franklin is and there are excuses you can use

Can't say I've seen enough of him...but his completion percentage + small hands is

I get its the cool thing to hate on Fitz, but if we start this guy Petty or Geno again next year the offense will be a joke again.

 

[King Crimson]

Can't say I've seen enough of him...but his completion percentage + small hands is

I get its the cool thing to hate on Fitz, but if we start this guy Petty or Geno again next year the offense will be a joke again.

Not hating on Fitz at all, just calling it like it is. He wasn't the long term answer. We're better off trying again and again til we get it right. In addition to that, we don't know what Hackenburg really is yet. Neither Petty and arguably even Geno. We know what Fitz is and I'm content rolling with the three young cats.

 

[King P]

College is such a different game from the pros with huge variables that I don't judge prospects against each other on stats

What stats don't measure is that Hackenberg went to a school where the talent at the time was destroyed by sanctions. He was literally playing behind a line at one point where half the guys never played on the oline before and came from different positions because of the lack of depth

Add in how awful Franklin is and there are excuses you can use

PFF had an article slamming Hackenberg and they debunked those myths

Many have cited Penn State’s poor pass protection as a reason for Hackenberg’s struggles, and to be clear, it’s not as though I thought he had the benefit of a great offensive line. But let’s look at the 2015 season opener against Temple as an example of how Hackenberg deserved some blame for the amount of pressure he was under.

Hackenberg was under pressure on 17 of his 36 dropbacks in that game, but only seven of those pressures were charged to the offensive line. That means nearly 60 percent of the pressure he was under in that game was not surrendered by his O-line, and much of it was clear from before the snap. Temple regularly showed six rushers before the snap, came with all of them, and Hackenberg was surprised by the free rusher despite only having five men in the protection. Some might want to cut him a break for the free rusher the offense couldn’t pick up, but it’s his job to understand that it is coming from the pre-snap read and be prepared to get rid of the ball quickly.

Don’t get me wrong: Hackenberg’s line was not good at Penn State, but it wasn’t the prohibitive collection of uniformed turnstyles that they’ve been made out to be, either. As a unit they surrendered 135 total pressures in 2015, which is bad, but 15 other teams managed worse, including Goff’s California Bears (154). 45 other offensive lines surrendered pressure at a greater rate than Hackenberg’s line last season. And in 2014, we charged Hackenberg with eight of the sacks he took, which is five more than any single lineman gave up.

In fact, since he has been the quarterback, Hackenberg has been directly to blame for more sacks than any single lineman blocking for him, and that doesn’t even touch the ones he was indirectly at fault for by being unable to effectively diagnose the pressure looks he was presented with.

One of the narratives around Hackenberg is that his play dropped off after an impressive true freshman campaign in 2013 — when Bill O’Brien was his head coach, prior to taking over the Houston Texans’ job, and his top target was Allen Robinson, now one of the league’s best young wide receivers for the Jaguars — due to a subpar supporting cast and poor fit with new Penn State head coach James Franklin. It’s certainly true that his raw numbers were more encouraging that season.

Unfortunately for Hackenberg, when we went back and graded his 2013 campaign, the results were not good. His 2013 season grade was a minus-24.7, which would have ranked third from the bottom in this draft class for the 2015 season.

When you factor in that Hackenberg was only a true freshman, then it probably is fair to say that the 2013 season was his best — but he still earned a lower grade in that season than any QB in this current draft class, and was greatly affected by the benefit of Robinson’s ability to either take routine catches to the house or go up and haul in questionable passes that were thrown as much to the defensive back as they were him.

This pass is a good example, as it was thrown straight to a corner who had position over the top and leverage on the receiver, but simply misplayed the ball in the air. Robinson, on the other hand, went up and high-pointed the ball, bringing it in for a big gain. This was a pass that ended up looking very nice based on the result, but probably shouldn’t have been thrown in the first place — even to a receiver as talented as Robinson.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Don't trust the front office.

 

[Frump]

PFF had an article slamming Hackenberg and they debunked those myths

I'm not a fan of the guy at all I'm just stating that there were weird circumstances he played under

His freshmen year he did play pretty well. he kinda reminded me of Bledsoe all the way down to the immobility and slow release

 

[nomoreneveragain]

PFF using a throw when he was a True Freshman playing in a Power 5 conference as a strike against him.

 

[Frump]

PFF using a throw when he was a True Freshman playing in a Power 5 conference as a strike against him.

There also judging a pocket passer in a spread offense with an inept coach.

If we're gonna go by stats then all those big 12 qbs should get drafted so high since they put up video game numbers in that soft ass conference.

I don't like the kid myself but I'm not a gm who knows. I just don't like how the judging works with these sites . They'res so many variable in football especially for a Qb.

 

[King Crimson]

Don't trust the front office.

Then who do you trust?

On the real they aren't idiots. They know their leash is short and they're on the clock.