Zion Williamson Bust Watch

Sauce Dab

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What is this +/- bullshyt nikkas be using in here? :mjlol:


Sounding like some cac stat nerds
It ain’t a cac stat. It’s important in context. It just means when you stepped on the floor, who out scored who in that timespan.
When you stepped on the floor which team went on a run. If you got out there and your team went on a 10-0 run, then you’re +10
 
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The big issue is always the defense. How you score 32 points on 14-19 shooting yet are a -8 on the night? Jazz forwards hit 12 threes and some of that was on Zion.

If it were one game it could be a fluke, but I feel you see this most of the nights he plays. So far this season in the 11 games he played the team is a total of -15 with Zion on the court and +8 with Zion off the court. And the same shyt would happen last year. How you average 23 and 8 on 58% shooting but the team does better when you're on the bench? It ain't a small sample size either cause he spends 1/3 of each game on the bench. He needs to improve his defense a LOT.

This is straight bull shyt. I can tell you don't watch the Pels if you typed up this shyt.

The team as a while is awful on D. Does Zion need to get better? Of course.

But if you bothered to watch them play and not just post that plus minus bullshyt

Yiu would see that the main issue is the wings don't stop penetration. Once opposing guards get in the lane all the shifting starts and Zion or whatever big is left out there running to the corner trying to stop a 3 that's already in the air.

Their team D is the problem
 

Professor Emeritus

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It's a pointless stat. I check in at garbage time and someone has a Reggie Miller moment and now I'm -8 and all I did was enter the game? Kinda shyt is that?
If that happens once it's random. If that happens every time you enter the game?



This is straight bull shyt. I can tell you don't watch the Pels if you typed up this shyt.

The team as a while is awful on D. Does Zion need to get better? Of course.

But if you bothered to watch them play and not just post that plus minus bullshyt
If you agree that he needs to improve his defense then why type all the other shyt?

The team, as a whole, doesn't play much better when he's on the court than they do when he's off the court. Remember last year, people were seriously saying, "The Lakers are gonna be scared if the Pelicans make the 8-seed, they could be real trouble!" That's not true at all. He puts up gorgeous offensive stats and it doesn't translate to wins.

Why are stat-nerds so obsessed with Zion's stats even when he's not winning, but the turn around and call other people stat nerds when they point out that the team's performance hasn't been noticeably elevated by his impressive stats?
 

Sauce Dab

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It's a pointless stat. I check in at garbage time and someone has a Reggie Miller moment and now I'm -8 and all I did was enter the game? Kinda shyt is that?
You gotta look at the context too. A Reggie Miller moment happens once. But if you look at the box score and you it looks like
-17, -13, -18... etc for like a 10+ game stretch then obviously there needs to be a lineup change
 

Nigerianwonder

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You just did exactly what I said - taking one random game can be a fluke. When it's a regular pattern it is different.

So far this year the only guy in the Pelicans top-8 with a worse +/- is JJ Reddikk, and he's missing everything he shoots and getting killed on defense. And I'm not saying that the Pelicans are terrible with Zion on the court, they're only slightly worse. But why are the worse at all when he's getting buckets so easily? That's the part that is crazy to me. Sometimes +/- can be gamed because you're always with the same players, so a weak supporting cast brings you down. But that's not true with the Pelicans, Zion if anything gets to play with the best lineups on the team. So why is their performance so weak?




Zion runs the score up against really shytty teams. Last year he was +25 in a game against the Grizzlies, +20 in a game against the Warriors, +21 in a game against the Cavs, and +20 in a game against the Timberwolves. Those were four of the worst teams in the entire league and they were all basically playing for the lottery at that point in the season. Take away those four games and the Pelicans were -25 when he was on the court despite really gaudy offensive numbers. I don't think they're worse with Zion on the court, but it doesn't seem like his impact is as big as his scoring numbers make it look because he keeps giving it back.

And it got worse as the season went on. Here are the last 10 games of the year.

Lakers: Zion goes 12-16 for 35 points, but team is -10 with him on the court and +2 without him
Timberwolves: Zion goes 10-19 for 21 points, team is 0 with him on the court and -5 without him
Mavs: Zion goes 9-18 for 21 points, team is +1 with him on the court and -5 without him
Heat: Zion goes 7-9 for 17 points, team is +1 with him on the court and -6 without him
Timberwolves: Zion goes 9-16 for 23 points, team is +20 with him on the court and -7 without him
Jazz: Zion goes 6-8 for 13 points, team is -16 with him on the court and +14 without him
Clippers: Zion goes 3-7 for 7 points, team is -17 with him on the court and -6 without him
Grizzlies: Zion goes 9-21 for 23 points, team is +8 with him on the court and +2 without him
Kings: Zion goes 10-12 for 21 points, team is -12 with him on the court and -3 without him
Spurs: Zion goes 10-20 for 25 points, team is -21 with him on the court and +12 without him

The only time in the final 10 games that the team really outscored opponents with Zion on the court was against those awful Timberwolves and Grizzlies teams. In the other 8 games the Pelicans were a combined -74 with Zion on the court but +3 with Zion off the court.





If you think Zion is playing well on defense that's your prerogative, but even you're suggesting that half the time he's out of position it's the team's fault and half the time it's his own damn fault.

This is a pretty dumb post. Besides the stat being meaningless.. First he was on a strict minutes restriction last year and the way they did it was silly. He they played him only the first few minutes each quarter. Whether the team was about to go on a run or not he was getting pulled and sent to the bench based off that restriction. The rotations and lineups were also poor which was on the coach. The offense was not centered around Zion. It impossible to get into the flow of the offense when they play him that way.. And still somehow he was able to put up decent numbers.

Secondly nobody expected the pelicans to beat the good teams. They were always considered a long shot to make the playoffs. So you cant exclude and cherry pick his performances against bad teams to make a point. They were supposed to have trouble against the lakers, heat, clippers etc.. Nobody expected otherwise.
 
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