Yo how strong was Piccolo by the end of DBZ?

[Wild self]

Toriyama originally intended to leave Goku dead after the Cell Saga and make Gohan the main character from then on out. He only brought Goku back because the Japanese fans were whining.

Honestly though, he pretty much admitted that he made it up as he went along. He originally wanted to end the series after the Freeza Saga, but it was too popular.

Then, he originally intended for Androids 19 and 20 (the fat one and Dr. Gero) to be the main villains of the Android Saga, but his editor thought they were lame and wanted him to make some better villains. So then he created 17 and 18, but his editor still thought they were lame since they just looked like regular people and weren't threatening. After that he created Cell, so 3rd time's the charm.

But I guess the point here is that he really didn't plan the series out at all, he was making it up chapter by chapter. And I'm not hating, he pretty much admitted this.

Toriyama brought back Goku to the living because his fans were mailing death threats. Yea, actual death threats.

And it was clear that post-Freiza DBZ, Toriyama was pretty much lost in where he wanted to take the direction of the series, at times. He had a plan for everything in the entire Dragonball franchise, until then.

Piccolo was probably strong as Perfect Cell in the Buu saga, I assume. I know that Dende said that he kept on training after the Cell games.

But Majin Vegeta did outclass Goku.

 

[Hersh]

toriyama.. needs to get back to the animation game.. if he decided to
"reboot" dbz here in the states >>>

 

[loki]

Goku took it easy on Majin vegeta.

 

[jdashmaj]

Maaaaan fukk Majin Vegeta, he was a hoe

 

[Grifter]

I'd say Piccolo was low-level SS2.

 

[O.Red]

No fukkin way. Majin vegeta proved that he was more powerful than goku until ssj3. He outclassed goku when they were both ssj2. There is no reason to think it wasnt intended to be this way.

Majin Vegeta was not more powerful than Goku

Goku was holding back the whole time to have a decent fight with Vegeta.

Once Vegeta was dead Goku was on him.

But he didnt know Vegeta could see him in Hell

 

[O.Red]

I'd say Piccolo was low-level SS2.

I agree with this.

Fusion with Kami+7 years of training after Cell=low level SSJ2

 

[lepard]

No fukkin way. Majin vegeta proved that he was more powerful than goku until ssj3. He outclassed goku when they were both ssj2. There is no reason to think it wasnt intended to be this way.

And what I said goes against your point, how?

 

[wise prophet]

At least SSJ but weaker than SSJ2. Piccolo should have fukking learned Kaioken.

Toriyama originally intended to leave Goku dead after the Cell Saga and make Gohan the main character from then on out. He only brought Goku back because the Japanese fans were whining.

Honestly though, he pretty much admitted that he made it up as he went along. He originally wanted to end the series after the Freeza Saga, but it was too popular.

Then, he originally intended for Androids 19 and 20 (the fat one and Dr. Gero) to be the main villains of the Android Saga, but his editor thought they were lame and wanted him to make some better villains. So then he created 17 and 18, but his editor still thought they were lame since they just looked like regular people and weren't threatening. After that he created Cell, so 3rd time's the charm.

But I guess the point here is that he really didn't plan the series out at all, he was making it up chapter by chapter. And I'm not hating, he pretty much admitted this.

There's not much evidence that Toriyama wanted to end the series after Freeza/Cell or that he was "forced" to put Goku back in, but you're right about the rest.

 

[DaylitoJames]

With all of that training Piccolo did he had to be at least SSJ2 level when the show ended.

 

[O.Red]

At least SSJ but weaker than SSJ2. Piccolo should have fukking learned Kaioken.

My n1gga you are absolutely right

Piccolo might have been able to hang at the end if he mastered Kaioken

 

[TNC]

No fukkin way. Majin vegeta proved that he was more powerful than goku until ssj3. He outclassed goku when they were both ssj2. There is no reason to think it wasnt intended to be this way.

nikka NO he didn't

Goku feigned weakness that WHOLE fight because he knew how heartbroken/emotional Vegeta was about being the strongest, even tho he NEVER was at any point in the series. Goku was able to go SSJ3 that WHOLE time but didn't because he didn't want to hurt Vegeta's feelings.

This was all clearly stated in the Buu Saga. Vegeta even found out Goku could have gone SSJ3 and didn't and was like

 

[TNC]

At least SSJ but weaker than SSJ2. Piccolo should have fukking learned Kaioken.

And with the Namek regen and healing abilities, he could Kaioken x 10 all day and be fine with the effects it had on the body

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

nikka NO he didn't

Goku feigned weakness that WHOLE fight because he knew how heartbroken/emotional Vegeta was about being the strongest, even tho he NEVER was at any point in the series. Goku was able to go SSJ3 that WHOLE time but didn't because he didn't want to hurt Vegeta's feelings.

This was all clearly stated in the Buu Saga. Vegeta even found out Goku could have gone SSJ3 and didn't and was like

I never bought that shyt. Goku OR vegeta holding back against another saiyan is nonsense

 

[TNC]

I never bought that shyt. Goku OR vegeta holding back against another saiyan is nonsense

So you gonna act like Goku didn't show mercy against Raditz and let go of his tail?

So you gonna act like Goku didn't show mercy and allow a defeated Vegeta to leave Earth?

So you gonna act like SSJ1 Goku didn't give a crippled Frieza some of his remaining energy so he didn't die?

So you gonna act like Goku didn't toss Cell a senzu bean for his fight with Gohan so it'd be a fair fight?


So you gonna act like there isn't NUMEROUS instances of Goku's consistant behavior of holding back and/or showing mercy against his opponents instead of going hard to destroy them?