YES!!!! Nubia-Kemet (aka Egypt) Is Where We ("Niger-Congo"-Bantus) Came From..Own It

[Jekyll]

Black Americans come from west Africa. A bunch of questionable picture comparisons and charts don’t change that.

Respect the facts. And furthermore take pride in that history and culture. We don’t need Egypt.

I don’t know who we is but its well known that the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians were close and mated with each other. A few of the early Pharaohs were mixed with Nubian. The people who conquered Egypt and built the Kingdom were not the same as the Ancient Egyptians. The problem is that most of the shyt that people would want to claim comes from the Kingdom of Egypt.

 

[Donny]

I read some time ago that there were depictions of Heru found in some caves in South Africa(?), I'll have to try and find that article again.

There was also a statue of Osiris Found on the bank of a river in the Congo, and a statue with the Kartush of Tuthmose III.

When you research these findings the only articles you can find talking about the discovery are published in French. The cover up is real with Egypt’s presence in the rest of Africa.

 

[ba'al]

 

[Deuterion]

Black Americans come from west Africa. A bunch of questionable picture comparisons and charts don’t change that.

Respect the facts. And furthermore take pride in that history and culture. We don’t need Egypt.

‘This thread never disputed that we came from West Africa, it simply highlights that a lot of modern day Africans are descendants of Kemet

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Agreed! It's just so annoying when you have these white ass kissers, telling blacks especially African Americans- Caribbeans to focus on West Africa. They say that as though those whom they are referring to as West Africans (or Central or Southern) did not ultimately come from ancient Nubia-Kemet.

I talked about that subject in the thread I made about the 1974 Cairo Colloquium on Ancient Egypt, in the Root: https://www.thecoli.com/threads/afr...e-1974-cairo-colloquium.775543/#post-37427213

[...]

Which leads me to something I wanted to discuss, a parenthesis. I see more and more often, on the Coli and elsewhere, black people, West African in particular, rejecting egyptology and Ancient Egypt under the guise of these two arguments:

1) There is much more to African history. West Africa had empires and kingdoms too that are worthy of research and investment.

2) Most black people in the world come from West Africa; the diaspora does, at least, since the Christian European transatlantic slave trade took people from West Africa. Ancient Egypt is not their history.

Both arguments often come attached with the hypothesis that "hoteps being interested in Ancient Egypt is just another way for them to flee their roots."

To address those:

First argument is obviously very true. But it is possible to chew and walk at the same time, and have interest in Ancient Egypt as well as other African civilizations and structures.
Moreover, it is pretty obvious why Ancient Egypt is the subject of so much heated discussion: it is the mother of Greek civilization, which culture still permeates the world to this day. That obviously doesn't take away from the rich history of West Africa; it only adds to it in the scope of global African history.

Leading to the second argument: if you admit Ancient Egyptian history is indeed part of African history, what reason is there for people of African descent to not be interested in it? Do you have to have direct ancestry to any African kingdom so as to have a legitimate interest in it? I NEVER see these arguments raised when people discuss Swahili history.

Moreover, it is established that multiple West African groups have roots in the Nile valley region. Same groups the diaspora come from. But that shouldn't be important.

"When it comes to African matters, if possible; we will defend them without any compromises whatsoever." If it's black/African history, then it's ours to study and cherish. Drawing borders in individual interests when it comes to the continent is nonsensical when we know that people moved around and all over, creating a genetic diversity that is today unequaled in the whole world. We don't have to put aside any part of African history, whether it'd be because weirdos are on the "we wuz kangs" wave or because it is not part of our immediate tribe.

All in all, we have to pay tribute to our OGs for they paved the way for us. As he said at the end, "we're still standing."

[...]

I'm not mad at that. I'm pretty much the same. When I discover a channel or resources on African history, I'm always digging up the West African material first and barely looking up the Ancient Egyptian part since it's been discussed so much. So I understand not being that interested in it.

What bugs me is people trying to muffle discussions on AE when they do occur. And playing it under a "getting away from your roots" angle. That part is weird and erroneous to me.

 

[Donny]

Black Americans come from west Africa. A bunch of questionable picture comparisons and charts don’t change that.

Respect the facts. And furthermore take pride in that history and culture. We don’t need Egypt.

Egypt likely was a cultural hub for all Ancient African groups and they all influenced each other to some degree. Most AA for example descend from the Mande tribes this includes the Dogon who orally trace their history to Egypt (though the Dogon managed to avoid the slave trade.)

The Mande people’s pre Islamic practices seem to share some similarities to Egyptian religion in deities and roles

Some of the cultural similarities between the Mande and the Egyptians are so strong that authors theorized that they had a joint civilization before the rise of Egypt.

It’s very likely that all progenitors of all modern African groups were regularly traveling and interacting with one another in Egypt and exchanging cultural practices and beliefs.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

There was also a statue of Osiris Found on the bank of a river in the Congo, and a statue with the Kartush of Tuthmose III.

When you research these findings the only articles you can find talking about the discovery are published in French. The cover up is real with Egypt’s presence in the rest of Africa.

I'll look into those

 

[CopiousX]

Black Americans come from west Africa. A bunch of questionable picture comparisons and charts don’t change that.

Respect the facts. And furthermore take pride in that history and culture. We don’t need Egypt.

One minute you guys want to be Israelites next minute Ancient Egyptians. Make your fukking mind up. You can't be both.

Both of you are correct in all 3 categories of black identities. I’d even throw the Native- American- Blacks worldview in there also.


At the end of the day, your personal history is subjective and highly political. It depends on where you choose to start your story, and the start point is often arbitrary as fck. There is no more justification to start YOUR history in West Africa, than to start YOUR story on a slave plantation in Georgia. Both are true.



Honestly, the functionality of your start point is more important than its actual location. The utility of choosing Egypt is that it encompasses 90% of black people(not Melanesians, Sentinalese, or pygmies). In addition to unifying most black people, it ends bickering and gives black people a high bar to aim for.






What’s wrong with that?

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Spoiler

Egypt likely was a cultural hub for all Ancient African groups and they all influenced each other to some degree. Most AA for example descend from the Mande tribes this includes the Dogon who orally trace their history to Egypt (though the Dogon managed to avoid the slave trade.)

The Mande people’s pre Islamic practices seem to share some similarities to Egyptian religion in deities and roles

Some of the cultural similarities between the Mande and the Egyptians are so strong that authors theorized that they had a joint civilization before the rise of Egypt.

It’s very likely that all progenitors of all modern African groups were regularly traveling and interacting with one another in Egypt and exchanging cultural practices and beliefs.

Charles de Brosses was also noting similarities between West African spiritual beliefs and systems, and Ancient Egypt back in 1760 (About the cult of fetish gods, or, parallel of the ancient religion of Egypt with the actual religion of Nigritia). Haven't had the opportunity to read his book yet.

I'm always quoting this bit too, which Cheikh Anta Diop and others weren't even aware of when they found the relationships we're talking about:

I'm looking for Yoro Diao work on the internet. He compiled towards the middle of the XIXth century extensive info on Wolof/Jolof kingdoms, their inception, how they worked, what they believed in... But also oral history (which was still prevalent at the time) about the Egyptian origin of the Wolof people amongst other ethnic groups found in West Africa. Dude toured the region and recollected infos from the griots and the elders at a time where oral transmission was prevalent. Too bad he had to work for the enemy.

From Wikipedia:

Spoiler

Senegalese historian, Boubacar Lam, a disciple of Cheikh Anta Diop, also encountered the compiled and collected work of Yoro Dyao, such as his works on migrations from the Nile Valley to West Africa.[4] Yoro Dyao indicated that there was a widespread oral tradition among the peoples of Senegal and Senegambia: "The general opinion in all of Senegambia being that our country owes its peopling to migrations out of Egypt, from which descend all of its population."[3] In Chronicles of Senegalese Foùta, Dyao gave account of six population migrations from Egypt to Senegambia:[3][13][14]

• In the first migration, composed of the Dya'go, Dyao highlighted that they migrated out of Egypt armed with metal (hogo) assegais, sabers, daggers, and knives, bringing along with them armor, as well as their industrious wisdom of metallurgy; they inaugurated the sorghum culture to prevent flooding from the Senegal River; the migration took place under the king of Egypt, identified as "Pate Lamine"; the words, whether used separately or together, are used among the Mandinka, the Peuls, the Khassonké, the Sarakhollé, and to some extent, among the Wolof.[3][13][14]
• In the second migration, composed of the Manna (named after their chief leader), which was caused by the vexations of the king of Egypt, Sossé Touré, Dyao notes that they were much more numerous than the Dya'go; they sojourned through the desert, settled near the Senegal River, and peopled Fouta; as they seized political power from the Galos, their leaders bore the title of Fari (Emperor), which is used among the Wolof and Peul. The Bambara, Malinké, Soninké, and Khassonké are also said to have come along with this migration.[3][13][14]
• In the third migration, composed of the Tondyon people, Dyao made note of their migration being more important than the Dya'go and Manna migrations, as they had seized the titles and rights to rule from the Fari and bestowed it upon their leaders, the Farang; Farang was a title used for their rulers, as well as the king of Egypt, who caused them to expatriate due to the continuous menial tasks they were being commanded to perform; as part of an extended Farang Empire, some of the migrants settled near the Senegal River, in the Sokhotoro, Kindila, Gangari, and Tambo-Dougoura, and became known as Soninké. The Bambara, Malinké, and Khassonké are also said to have come along with this migration.[3][13][14]
• In the fourth and fifth migrations, composed of Tourmiss and Koli-Tenguella, respectively, which was caused due to the excessive demands of the Farang of Egypt, it was noted by Dyao as being comparatively smaller than the Dya'go, Manna, and Tondyon migrations; while partly composed of Soninké, Bambara, Malinké, Khassonké, and other Manding, these migrations were largely composed of Fulani, to which the leader, Tourmiss, belonged, and ultimately, resulted in the spread of the Fulani throughout the six countries of Senegambia.[3][13][14]
• In the sixth migration, composed of the Turi-Siny, or Lam-Toro (also the title of its leader), Moussa departed with some of the group he would travel with, from Tripi Sing, near Mecca, and others from the group in Egypt; he arrived as a cavalry in Senegal, overthrew Ymido, defeated the Kalimou quarter, and proclaimed himself king, which led to subsequent migrations and state formations in the region.

Historian Aboubacry Moussa Lam also reviewed his work so his take on it could be interesting.

Similar accounts can be found across many West African groups.

I think the main issue when it comes to migration history is that people can't help but seem to think in absolutes. Groups of Ancient Egyptian migrating and mixing with/assimilating into local West African populations over their millenniums of existence is not far-fetched. It doesn't have to be "West Africa was empty and then the Ancient Egyptians came and populated it".

It's more subtle than that.

 

[Hannibal Fox]

Obviously. Most of Sub-Saharan africa descended from Egypt. Subsaharan Africa shares too many similarities with Kemet for it to be coincidental. Except for pygmy brehs.


Cheik actually goes into historical accounts from Nubian, and Greek contemporaries that sailed down the west and East coast of Africa pre-Rome. They noted an especially short race of wooly haired, sun burnt people on the coasts. It is assumed that they were the original southern inhabitants

TheTwa?

 

[CopiousX]

TheTwa?

Most likely their ancestors. Those accounts are preRome, so it’s highly unlikely that any one tribe/ethnic group would remain unchanged over that 2000yr stretch.

 

[BlackJesus]

‘This thread never disputed that we came from West Africa, it simply highlights that a lot of modern day Africans are descendants of Kemet

People lived in west Africa before Egypt existed so I fail to see how Egypt is relevant here or some kind of origin story

 

[Deuterion]

People lived in west Africa before Egypt existed so I fail to see how Egypt is relevant here or some kind of origin story

‘Once again here you go arguing points no one is making. No one said that there wasn’t civilization in West Africa prior to Nile Valley civilization, they simply said, some civilizations in West and Central Africa trace back to Kemet.

I bet if we talked about how a lot of Roman culture traces back to Greece you wouldn’t have a thing to say about it. But since we’re talking about cultural exchange that white textbooks don’t cover now you’re offended.

 

[BlackJesus]

‘Once again here you go arguing points no one is making. No one said that there wasn’t civilization in West Africa prior to Nile Valley civilization, they simply said, some civilizations in West and Central Africa trace back to Kemet.

I bet if we talked about how a lot of Roman culture traces back to Greece you wouldn’t have a thing to say about it. But since we’re talking about cultural exchange that white textbooks don’t cover now you’re offended.

I’m always offended by shytty, half-assed, self proclaimed science based off of pictures and little else.

Second the Roman Empire is documented to have conquered and absorbed most of Europe. Did Egypt conquer west Africa?

 

[Houston911]

Great thread