Yes, Black people, we should read Marx.

[EndDomination]

Yes do read Marx, read his personal letters to engels that detail how both thought about blacks.
Read Das Kapital and notice how they champion the spread of white supremacy against indiginous populations .

He was adamantly against chattel slavery, I have to check back about the indigenous populations claim though.

I don't think Communism has ever been applied. Countries claim communism. Doesn't mean that's what they're actually practicing.

This.

Remember Marx for How Much He Got Wrong

This article continues to equate failed bureaucracy and corruption with Marx and Engles' writings, which reads as slander at best and outright lying at worst.
I do certainly agree that the preference fo revolution over gradual shift is the biggest issue, but that's largely due to the inherent stability of the countries that attempt "communist" or "worker's revolutions." I actually agree with Eduard Bernstein's criticisms of Marx
A gradual shift toward socialistic policy is the best way for it to be done otherwise a country will face outright undermining of it's institutions, or the strong possibility of the state coming under the control of a miitary junta, a nationalist or populist authoritarian or the institutions of the state falling into outright chaos.

white people love "black communists"

White people slaughtered Black communists, toppled their regimes, undermined their government progress, etc.
Remember what they did Sankara? What they did to Fred Hampton?

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Remember what they did Sankara? What they did to Fred Hampton?

Remember what they did to Lumumba just off suspicion even though the capitalists rejected him in the first place?

 

[David_TheMan]

He was adamantly against chattel slavery, I have to check back about the indigenous populations claim though.

I said read their personal correspondence and see their real feelngs about blacks and you refer to slavery as if being against it makes on no longer a white supremacist. Smh.

here you go thoug






The Ugly Racism of Karl Marx

 

[ogc163]

This article continues to equate failed bureaucracy and corruption with Marx and Engles' writings, which reads as slander at best and outright lying at worst.

This is hyperbole, as I am safely assuming you are referring to this part of the article...

"But something about this celebration of Marx sits uneasily. For those who have read history or lived through the 20th century, it’s hard to forget the tens of millions of people who starved to death under Mao Zedong, the tens of millions purged, starved or sent to gulags by Joseph Stalin, or the millions slaughtered in Cambodia’s killing fields. Even if Marx himself never advocated genocide, these stupendous atrocities and catastrophic economic blunders were all done in the name of Marxism. From North Korea to Vietnam, 20th-century communism always seem to result in either crimes against humanity, grinding poverty or both. Meanwhile, Venezuela, the most dramatic socialist experiment of the 21st century in a nation with the world’s largest oil reserves, is in full economic collapse."

I am curious how this could either be construed as "slander" or "outright lying".

 

[BlackJesus]

I'm pretty sure his ideas did not lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions of people.
The Soviet Union used brutal repression, ethnic cleansing, and failed collectivist policies that were sloppy, bureaucratic, didn't even follow the basic "instructions" (if you could call them that) of the change from a capitalist to a socialist to a communistic society, and were 100% the fault of the leaders who implemented them.

The same is true of China, his agrarian revolution into the Great Leap Forward, just like the stupidity of the Stalin regime that led to Holodomor, was tied heavily to natural conditions, hence the famine that caused massive casualties.

Marx =/= the Soviet Union or Communist China in the same way Adam Smith =/= Colonial America or the Belgian Congo

In no society has communism ever been successfully tried.

If it's so basic and as simple as following instructions, why not just do it?

 

[MajorVitaman]

White people slaughtered Black communists, toppled their regimes, undermined their government progress, etc.
Remember what they did Sankara? What they did to Fred Hampton?

Those are real revolutionaries I'm talking about the modern "communists" who aren't a threat to white power

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

Those are real revolutionaries I'm talking about the modern "communists" who aren't a threat to white power

I mean even the NAACP took issue with the Communists Party in the 1950's because of the gains that they had made socially. Just cause you're not advocating gulags doesn't mean they can't undercut and use other diverse tactics to smear your name.

Look at how cacs are overacting to that Cortez woman who won, when all she is a Democratic Socialist. Look at how they got the fangs out for Bernie Sanders who's about as threatening as a week old kitten.

All you gotta do in 2018 to level any kind of momentum for Leftist policies is throw out the words communist, socialist, feminist, identity politics zealot and the masses will do the work for you.

 

[Savvir]

The real question is how well do ethnic minorities do under communism?

 

[AlainLocke]

In no society has communism ever been successfully tried.

If it's so basic and as simple as following instructions, why not just do it?

Because there are stages...

The Marx and Engels ideas are economic and social theories that guide revolutionaries...it's not a step by step plan

Revolutionaries gotta come up with their own strategies that are in their own countries...which is how we have Marxist-Leninism-Maoism...

 

[BaltimoreTwilightMarauder]

Just to remind everyone. Communists are bad people.

 

[Swahili P'Bitek]

Capitalism, since it occurs naturally to man, has been around longer than Communism and has gotten a chance to rework itself. The height of Capitalism was Slave trade in my view, then industrialization came along and helped capitalism save face. The question to black people and Africans should be, if we were to theorise how traditional africans economically set up themselves, how would it look in comparison to both capitalism and communism?How can we modernise it rather than attach ourselves to these 2 Eurocentric ideologies? But the point remains, Black people worldwide provide a huge market for the world, as such endogenous growth is our only hope. We have the resources,be it in raw materials or soft power, but as evidence proves, we are not the ones making most money from it, from Africa to the Americas.

 

[David_TheMan]

Capitalism, since it occurs naturally to man, has been around longer than Communism and has gotten a chance to rework itself. The height of Capitalism was Slave trade in my view, then industrialization came along and helped capitalism save face. The question to black people and Africans should be, if we were to theorise how traditional africans economically set up themselves, how would it look in comparison to both capitalism and communism?How can we modernise it rather than attach ourselves to these 2 Eurocentric ideologies? But the point remains, Black people worldwide provide a huge market for the world, as such endogenous growth is our only hope. We have the resources,be it in raw materials or soft power, but as evidence proves, we are not the ones making most money from it, from Africa to the Americas.

Nah height of capitalism wasn't the slave trade, it was actually the industrial revolution which ended the slave trade as it made human capital less useful and expensive compared to mechanical labor. If you want to be accurate.

Communism and different strands of socialism have been around since the beginning of human society, the concept of a king or "lord" having control over property that isn't theirs or communal ownership is common to humanity. It wasn't until the later elevation of capitalism, which was based on the idea of human individual being something that was positive, that capitalism came on the scene, and lifted humanity from working to live and slavery, which predates capitalism, look no further than Mayan and Aztec slavery, Egyptian slavery, greek slavery, and etc.

 

[Swahili P'Bitek]

Nah height of capitalism wasn't the slave trade, it was actually the industrial revolution which ended the slave trade as it made human capital less useful and expensive compared to mechanical labor. If you want to be accurate.

Communism and different strands of socialism have been around since the beginning of human society, the concept of a king or "lord" having control over property that isn't theirs or communal ownership is common to humanity. It wasn't until the later elevation of capitalism, which was based on the idea of human individual being something that was positive, that capitalism came on the scene, and lifted humanity from working to live and slavery, which predates capitalism, look no further than Mayan and Aztec slavery, Egyptian slavery, greek slavery, and etc.

Did private ownership of means of production come first in human history or did communal ownership? I'm not such a good historian but I thought that communal ownership of means of production came about after human beings organised themselves into forms of gvt, kingships etc and was based on status. Africans for instance I believe practised a mix of the two where the land was communal but people still could own personal property etc. Since most of us didnt have centralised forms of gvt. By height, I meant that was when capitalism was being practised in its rawest form, where one could own all the means of production, including labor and treat it(people) basically as machines since they were not compensated but only maintained(clothed,fed etc). Machinery was only preferred due to its efficiency and lower maintainance cost.

 

[David_TheMan]

Did private ownership of means of production come first in human history or did communal ownership? I'm not such a good historian but I thought that communal ownership of means of production came about after human beings organised themselves into forms of gvt, kingships etc and was based on status. Africans for instance I believe practised a mix of the two where the land was communal but people still could own personal property etc. Since most of us didnt have centralised forms of gvt. By height, I meant that was when capitalism was being practised in its rawest form, where one could own all the means of production, including labor and treat it(people) basically as machines since they were not compensated but only maintained(clothed,fed etc). Machinery was only preferred due to its efficiency and lower maintainance cost.

Communal ownersship was the first in my studies, mainly because the first societies grew out of family units and extended family units where things were shared.
I'm sure depending on where you look though you can get different order of events.
That said, I want to make a distinction between the existance of private property as a concept and capitalism as a economic system defined and practiced.

Capitalism in its rawest form is simply free trade or voluntary trade. It hasn't stopped being practiced in its rawest form for the most part. Like I said earlier, if anything capitalism killed slavery in that it made it no longer economically viable, it drove the concept out of the market with technological innovation.

All that to say capitalism isn't a moral system, its purely economic caluclation, so to try to credit or blame "capitalism" for anything is a poor point, immoral or moral acts are done by the humans who decide to perform those acts, not a economic system, and thats true for the various forms of socialism as well.

While I disagree with socialism as a economic system, I would never try to lump in various peaceful anarco-communist or anarcho-syndicalist in the same camp as Soviet style communists or modern day social democrats and democratic socialists in matters of politics. Nor try to say capitalists are racist and socialists aren't or any other such thing. Its a faulty argument because the label become meaningless because its another conversation.

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]