Would you consider Haile Selassie a c00n?(Martin Garvey ethers Haile Selassie)

[Raptor]

Menelik himself even stated that he was a 'Caucasian'. This non-African identity was also stated by Haile Selassie.


Quote:
'I am not a Negro at all; I am a Caucasian' the Emperor Menelik told the West Indian pan-Africanist Benito Sylvian who had come to Addis Ababa to solicit the Emperor's leadership in a society for the 'Amelioration of the Negro race.' Haile Sellassie confirmed that view in a declaration to Chief H. O. Davis, a well known Nigerian nationalist, stating that the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people (2006, John H. Spencer, p. 306)
When Halie Selassie was invaded by Mussolini's Italian forces in 1935, he had offered to sell large chunks of Ethiopia off to Italy for one and a half milliard Lira. Halie Selassie even offered to have Italian advisors to direct his policies, effectively offering to be a vessel, in return to hold on to some form of power. However, this last ditch effort to hold on to power was rejected by Mussolini.


Quote:
In his desperate act to hold power, Haile Selassie now made a secret peace overture to Mussolini, sending a former Ethiopian Minister in Rome to contact the Italian consul in Djibouti. He offered to sell a large part of Ethiopia to Italy for one and half milliard Lira and to appoint six Italian advisors to direct the policy of his government. Mussolini sent sourteous reply to the intermediary, expressing his pleasure that the Negus had at last decided to negotiate directly with him; but he said the offer was unacceptable." (1997, by Jasper Godwin Ridley, p.270)

After Haile Selassie fled to London, he snubbed the black nationalist Marcus Gravey because he was black.


Quote:
When Haile Selassie fled to London, Gravey tried to contact him but was snubbed, and it was reported that "the emperor did not desire any contact with 'Negroes.'" (1963, Harold Robert Isaacs, p. 153)

Unhappy with the being snubbed, the famous Marcus Gravey wrote the following quote about Halie Selassie:
Quote:
Mussolini of Italy has conquered Haile Selassie of Abyssinia, but he has not conquered the Abyssinians nor Abyssinia. The Emperor of Abyssinia allowed himself to be conquered, by playing white, by trusting to white advisers and by relying white Governments, including the white League of Nations.We can remember in 1920 inviting the Government of Abyssinia to send representatives to the International Convention of the Negro Peoples of the world in common with other Negro Conventions, the Abyssinian Government returned the communication unopened. Its policy then, as during the Italo-Abyssinian war, was no doubt to rely completely on the advice and friendship of white people. They ignored Negro relationship from without and throttled Negro aspirations from within. The result was that they dragged along without any racial policy, except that of the ruling classes, believing themselves white and better than the rest, with a right to suppress the darker elements which make up the tremendous population. (2009, By Girma Menelik, p.57)

EgyptSearch Forums: Halie Selassie - 'I am not a Negro at all'


Whats the verdict. Was he a product of his time or was he a selfhating c00n who distanced himself from other African leaders inorder to get in bed with cacs

edit: Theres something wrong with the font, its not a deduction

 

[Roland Coltrane]

i'm surprised at the crickets in regards to this post


this is definitely news to me.

 

[Raptor]

i'm surprised at the crickets in regards to this post


this is definitely news to me.

Strange isnt it

 

[Gutzman]

so this is who Ab-Soul is talking about in Terrorist Threats? Who is that?

 

[JahFocus CS]

No one is perfect I don't romanticize Haile Selassie as an individual. He said and did some good things... but he was a monarch for fukk's sake.

The thing is that Ethiopians, especially the Amhara, have a strong national identity that is tied to a few core things (ancient Christianity, not being a colony, etc.). And because of the deep roots of those core things, it seems there is quite a bit of resistance to being subsumed under categories that they did not create (or have a hand in), namely, "Black." But the community is not a monolithic that outright rejects Blackness.

This breh refutes some of what is in the OP: Restoring the African Mind: Menelik & Haile Selassie and their Pan-African Activities

 

[Raptor]

No one is perfect I don't romanticize Haile Selassie as an individual. He said and did some good things... but he was a monarch for fukk's sake.

The thing is that Ethiopians, especially the Amhara, have a strong national identity that is tied to a few core things (ancient Christianity, not being a colony, etc.). And because of the deep roots of those core things, it seems there is quite a bit of resistance to being subsumed under categories that they did not create (or have a hand in), namely, "Black." But the community is not a monolithic that outright rejects Blackness.

This breh refutes some of what is in the OP: Restoring the African Mind: Menelik & Haile Selassie and their Pan-African Activities

I agree. I think its because they had no conception of race and skin colour and the implications of white supremacy, so they felt different (we have to be honest here, they do look different as a people) but it seems like from their own actions, they inadvertantly supported the black/pan african movement

 

[ba'al]

Wow, I'm speechless. I know Dr. Clarke also taught that the mulattoes literally destroyed the haitian revolution. Among other things.

 

[Deluuxe]

EgyptSearch Forums: Halie Selassie - 'I am not a Negro at all'


Whats the verdict. Was he a product of his time or was he a selfhating c00n who distanced himself from other African leaders inorder to get in bed with cacs

edit: Theres something wrong with the font, its not a deduction

change that pitiful avatar you have. Disgusting.

 

[Misreeya]

I agree. I think its because they had no conception of race and skin colour and the implications of white supremacy, so they felt different (we have to be honest here, they do look different as a people) but it seems like from their own actions, they inadvertantly supported the black/pan african movement

they do look different as a people

Really? Maybe from a Kenya or Uganda. However his look is very regional. It is not like you don't have neighboring population that has a contrasting appearance than your own. Otherwise it would be another case if it was.

 

[Deluuxe]

I don't consider him a c00n, he can have his view and how he views himself and his people. The Pan-African wants everyone to be the same even though they're not.

Jamaicans needed to find identity in themselves not some random ethiopian, and not a group of people they're far removed from either.

 

[Raptor]

Really? Maybe from a Kenya or Uganda. However his look is very regional. It is not like you don't have neighboring population that has a contrasting appearance than your own. Otherwise it would be another case if it was.

Im comparing Haile selasie to the average subsaharan African and his statements regarding his racial identity. Im just saying if youve never interacted with other races and your "other" was a nilotic serf from the Ethiopian rift valley, you would think youre not related to those people and you otherise them. Kind of like how germanic people otherised italians before they were exposed to other races and later realise that they may be racially similar inspite of the regional variations.
. If youve never met any other races, an African would think these two were never related inspite of the fact that they both call Ethiopia home and they both have a common east african ancestor
Amhara - Northern Ethiopia

Gambella - South west Ethiopia

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

I see Marcus Gravey littered throughout the op.

Real reputable sources you got there.

 

[BlackFruitPunch]

A lot of pleas being copped in this thread. If this is true he was a coward and a c00n.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I didn't know Martin Garvey had shyt to say tho.

Anyways, Garvey attacked Selassie from a position of idealism because he considered it wrong for him to leave during the height of the Italian Occupation. But Selassie was a very pragmatic ruler just like Menelik before him. He still had rivals to worry about and the intrigues would only intensify with the introduction of the fascists.

Mind you, many Ethiopians found it unforgivable for Selassie to flee to a foreigners land like he did since a Negus was always suppose to fight to the death. Yohannes IV died in battle defending Ethiopia's sovereignty from foreigners, Menelik II was on the battlefield of Adwa and witnessed the victory, Tewdros II gained his crown as a warrior first and foremost.

But it wouldn't of helped had Selassie been killed by the Italians then Ethiopia wouldn't have survived through WWII the Europeans wanted to break the country apart even after the war ended but Selassie prevented it. So in hindsight, Garvey was speaking from a position of dangerous idealism that would've destroyed Ethiopia as we know it had Selassie taken a different course of action.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Also, I think it's important that people understand the mentality of Habesha nobles and even the peasants was that they were superior to everyone including whites. So called "Negroes" were looked upon as being not as good looking as Habeshas while Europeans were considered weak and fragile and unfit to rule. The "Abyssinian" is arrogant and prideful towards his own, its not because they ever wanted to be white. So this whole Selassie wanted to be white schtick is incorrect, the Orthodox Christian/Judaic tradition is the reason why Abyssinians tended to claim the "Semitic" side more.

Honestly, I would say that it was religion, extreme isolation, and the slave trade that did the most to divorce the Abyssinian from his/her Africanness.