"World Is In Trouble Anytime Axeman Come" Walters vs Lomachenko hbo 11/26 Fight Thread

[Yuzo]

1.isnt that dangerous when u back straight up like that tho?...u could get koed like that.

2. yeah walters is a bit of a boxer puncher but he also threw more punches in a rd vs sosa than what loma threw the whole Martinez fight. I think he can turn on that high volume pressure when he wants to.

did u watch the sosa fight...walters is very comfortable on the inside and he's pretty skilled there too.

1. yes you can. but that will be unlikely against a guy like lomachenko. but yes you can.

2. the question will not be if he can fight inside but if he can get inside. lomachenko has to maintain range to feint, steal you, and step around; all the flashy lomachenko stuff. which means if you take a step in, he has to take a step back, to maintain that range he needs to have to do these things to you. which also means if you keep coming forward, then he has to keep backing up. if you do eventually get inside, he has to hold you. this is why he looked so flat against salido.

what you are seeing here is a pattern that kept repeating itself when they fought. salido kept coming in, so to maintain the range he likes, lomachenko had to keep backing up. when salido got too close inside lomachenko had to hold. it took lomachenko out of the fight he likes to fight. this was why he looked so flat. it wasnt because of low blows.

salido and walters do not come in the same way. salido comes in willing to take a punch to give a punch, to drag you into his fight, not yours. walters comes in behind a jab. this approach is a little more methodical and it will open up walters to lomachenko counters on the way in. specifically this counter, the counter left hand slipping the orthodox jab in one smooth motion.

if walters cant get past this counter, or other counters on the way in, he will have a a hard time trying to come in throughout the fight, and will have to hang back on the end of lomachenko's punches as a result. that is the wrong place to be against lomachenko. it is the place in the ring where he gets to do everything he likes to do.

the question is not about if walters can fight inside. its about if he can get there.

 

[Axum Ezana]

1. yes you can. but that will be unlikely against a guy like lomachenko. but yes you can.

2. the question will not be if he can fight inside but if he can get inside. lomachenko has to maintain range to feint, steal you, and step around; all the flashy lomachenko stuff. which means if you take a step in, he has to take a step back, to maintain that range he needs to have to do these things to you. which also means if you keep coming forward, then he has to keep backing up. if you do eventually get inside, he has to hold you. this is why he looked so flat against salido.

what you are seeing here is a pattern that kept repeating itself when they fought. salido kept coming in, so to maintain the range he likes, lomachenko had to keep backing up. when salido got too close inside lomachenko had to hold. it took lomachenko out of the fight he likes to fight. this was why he looked so flat. it wasnt because of low blows.

salido and walters do not come in the same way. salido comes in willing to take a punch to give a punch, to drag you into his fight, not yours. walters comes in behind a jab. this approach is a little more methodical and it will open up walters to lomachenko counters on the way in. specifically this counter, the counter left hand slipping the orthodox jab in one smooth motion.

if walters cant get past this counter, or other counters on the way in, he will have a a hard time trying to come in throughout the fight, and will have to hang back on the end of lomachenko's punches as a result. that is the wrong place to be against lomachenko. it is the place in the ring where he gets to do everything he likes to do.

the question is not about if walters can fight inside. its about if he can get there.

looks like instead of just one jab salido came in with a combo to.....good shyt.

I believe walters has a good enough jab to do it. plus he has an 8 inch reach advantage, so loma should have to extend more to reach /counter him.

 

[Knicksman20]

looks like instead of just one jab salido came in with a combo to.....good shyt.

I believe walters has a good enough jab to do it. plus he has an 8 inch reach advantage, so loma should have to extend more to reach /counter him.

Loma's gonna have to take chances to a certain degree to get off on Walters because of the reach difference. I don't think he'll be able to do that because Walters knows how to fight tall & he's a very good counter puncher whether going top or countering to the body.

 

[Yuzo]

I believe walters has a good enough jab to do it. plus he has an 8 inch reach advantage, so loma should have to extend more to reach /counter him.

he is also slippery and tricky so he will probably not just walk into lomachenko counters. there is a little james toney in walters.

Spoiler

maybe more than a little

still walters will need to impose himself onto lomachenko. he cant get too cute with his defense. lomachenko throws a lot of punches and walters cant fall in love with just making lomachenko miss. lomachenko is a guy who throws quick little punches. he steals you. hes not a guy who overcommits to his punches. but if walters slipperyness and length can make lomachenko reach and overcommit, he can definitely punish him for it, you are right about that.

 

[Axum Ezana]

he is also slippery and tricky so he will probably not just walk into lomachenko counters. there is a little james toney in walters.

Spoiler

maybe more than a little

still walters will need to impose himself onto lomachenko. he cant get too cute with his defense. lomachenko throws a lot of punches and walters cant fall in love with just making lomachenko miss. lomachenko is a guy who throws quick little punches. he steals you. hes not a guy who overcommits to his punches. but if walters slipperyness and length can make lomachenko reach and overcommit, he can definitely punish him for it, you are right about that.

yuzo please answer this.

how does walters still have so much power behind his punch when he is backing up. is it just cause its a counter that the guys is not expecting or is there a trick(skill) to it or he just has a lot of power? ive seen him hurt guys more when hes moving backwards.....lol

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

We are all one, breh

 

[Achille]

 

[Von Clay]

Link??

 

[Von Clay]

I'm high AF jet lagged thinking its fight night.

I'll check in this weekend.

 

[THE MACHINE]

Should be a great scrap.

 

[Yuzo]

yuzo please answer this.

how does walters still have so much power behind his punch when he is backing up. is it just cause its a counter that the guys is not expecting or is there a trick(skill) to it or he just has a lot of power? ive seen him hurt guys more when hes moving backwards.....lol

can you tell me which punch you saw him hurt someone moving backwards. to answer your question what hurts guys more than anything in boxing is shock. what most causes shock is not seeing the punch. what most causes not seeing the punch is turning or running into it. this is why counter punches are responsible for most of the knockdowns and knockouts you will see in boxing. which is to say, a guy will throw a punch, turn and run into a counter punch, not see it, and get shocked.

i have my own theory about this. i think that when many guys throw a punch their eyes will lock onto what they are trying to hit. so for example, their eyes will lock onto the head before they throw a punch to the head. chris byrd was a good example of that.

byrd used to have a trait where he would lock his eyes onto a guys head before throwing a string of punches living up to his nickname of rapid fire. so when he locked his eyes before starting up one of his rapid fire string of punches, he had a tendency to not see that a guy was also throwing a punch at the same time as him, causing a lot of shock if he got hit at that moment.

that was how he was knocked out by ike ibeabuchi.

look at byrds eyes again here. his eyes are locked onto the head to punch and he cant see the uppercut ibeabuchi is throwing. i believe this is what happens to many boxers.

when people are taught how to juggle they are taught to fix their eyes somewhere directly above the objects they are juggling and to see each object they are juggling with their peripheral vision instead of looking at each individual object directly. i think the same principle is probably true in boxing. when you lock your eyes onto the head before you throw a punch to the head, you will momentarily lose sight of the whole picture, putting you in a very vulnerable position while you punch.

my own theory is guys who are said to have good chins in boxing are actually in possession of a heightened awareness which allows them to be less shocked by punches than guys who lack this special awareness that they possess. they have a special ability to sense the punches and prevent shock which also means guys who are less sharp and less aware will be more prone to shock as a result of having or not having this ability.

some other factors for power include placement of the punch. you will see punches to places like the forehead cause less knockdowns and knockouts than punches to the jaw. some punches will be grazing and not flush. one of the biggest reasons for a punch not having power is it will not have any follow through. follow through is when a punch goes all the way through what it is hitting. so on that condition, this is good follow through.

you can see the punch continue all the way through the head here. but in boxing you will see guys throwing many times punches with poor or even no follow through at all.

by all conditions, this is a good right hand and possesses all of the mechanics a good right hand ought to have. but even the best thrown right hand must still be able to land with good placement, flush not grazing, and with a lot of shock. which is to say, power is nothing if it cant be set up properly.

 

[Axum Ezana]

can you tell me which punch you saw him hurt someone moving backwards. to answer your question what hurts guys more than anything in boxing is shock. what most causes shock is not seeing the punch. what most causes not seeing the punch is turning or running into it. this is why counter punches are responsible for most of the knockdowns and knockouts you will see in boxing. which is to say, a guy will throw a punch, turn and run into a counter punch, not see it, and get shocked.

i have my own theory about this. i think that when many guys throw a punch their eyes will lock onto what they are trying to hit. so for example, their eyes will lock onto the head before they throw a punch to the head. chris byrd was a good example of that.

byrd used to have a trait where he would lock his eyes onto a guys head before throwing a string of punches living up to his nickname of rapid fire. so when he locked his eyes before starting up one of his rapid fire string of punches, he had a tendency to not see that a guy was also throwing a punch at the same time as him, causing a lot of shock if he got hit at that moment.

that was how he was knocked out by ike ibeabuchi.

look at byrds eyes again here. his eyes are locked onto the head to punch and he cant see the uppercut ibeabuchi is throwing. i believe this is what happens to many boxers.

when people are taught how to juggle they are taught to fix their eyes somewhere directly above the objects they are juggling and to see each object they are juggling with their peripheral vision instead of looking at each individual object directly. i think the same principle is probably true in boxing. when you lock your eyes onto the head before you throw a punch to the head, you will momentarily lose sight of the whole picture, putting you in a very vulnerable position while you punch.

my own theory is guys who are said to have good chins in boxing are actually in possession of a heightened awareness which allows them to be less shocked by punches than guys who lack this special awareness that they possess. they have a special ability to sense the punches and prevent shock which also means guys who are less sharp and less aware will be more prone to shock as a result of having or not having this ability.

some other factors for power include placement of the punch. you will see punches to places like the forehead cause less knockdowns and knockouts than punches to the jaw. some punches will be grazing and not flush. one of the biggest reasons for a punch not having power is it will not have any follow through. follow through is when a punch goes all the way through what it is hitting. so on that condition, this is good follow through.

you can see the punch continue all the way through here. but in boxing you will see guys throwing many times punches with poor or even no follow through at all.

by all conditions, this is a good right hand and possesses all of the mechanics a good right hand ought to have. but even the best thrown right hand must still be able to land with good placement, flush not grazing, and with a lot of shock. which is to say, power is nothing if it cant be set up properly.

the sosa gif u posted........he was backing up when koed donaire too.

 

[Yuzo]

the sosa gif u posted........he was backing up when koed donaire too.

i had feeling that was the punch you were thinking of.

actually he did set his feet when he threw the punch. if you look at donaire he also appears to be starting a right hand when he got hit with the right hand very early into his punching motion. this means he was trading right hands. which means he was probably shocked by the right hand he got hit with.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

the sosa gif u posted........he was backing up when koed donaire too.

Walters sometimes opens up his stance when people are moving in one him. It's one of the ways he counters smaller fighters trying to smother him. You can't see their feet in that gif, but remember how that right he KO'd him with was the second one he hit him with in a row. He hits Nonito with the first right but Nonito walks through it as he had come in enough to where Walters' power got cut as it was a chopping right, Walters swings his lead foot WAY outside of Nonito's for the second. That allows him to throw the same hooking right as the first one, but with his legs and hips fully into it. Given the full sequence, I think Nonito fully expected to get hit with the right, but thought that he was well inside of Walter's power and got surprised when the second one was so much harder than the first.

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

I'm high AF jet lagged thinking its fight night.

I'll check in this weekend.

Sure you were, put the henny down breh. I got too hyped one day too, I was like "someone give me a link" everyone else "dawg, the fight starts in 4 hours"