Why was Greg The Hammer Valentine ever a thing?

[3Rivers]

And the mama fratelli face.

Fixed

 

[Jello Biafra]

The late 70's and early 80's were a truly pivotal time because the old era of wrestling with the tough guys of Race, Valentine, Bad News etc clashed with the wave of characters starting to be introduced like Hogan, Savage, Flair etc. So guys like the Hammer who didnt have much personality like the new generation coming in got overshadowed quickly.

A big example I like to bring up is the World Heavyweight Championship reign of Ronnie Garvin in 87. Flair was at the absolute top of his game during that time and outclassed him so badly that that title reign is largely forgotten, if not panned whereas 10 years earlier it may not have been.

Depending on age or how much of a wrestling historian you are like @stro is, you may not see the appeal of a lot of older guys unless you go outnof your way to watch the older stuff.

Ronnie Garvin only won the title because WWF scheduled the first Survivor Series on the same date as Starrcade and the NWA wanted to have Flair win the title in the main event of their show so he had to drop the belt first. I always thought it was odd that Ronnie got the belt instead of Jimmy Garvin since he had way more personality and he and Flair were feuding over Flair trying to put the moves on Precious.

I don't think Ronnie even defended the belt in the 2 months he had it before dropping it back to Flair.

 

[Buzzed Lightyear]

Fixed

 

[stro]

I dont think his in ring prowess was really in question here vs his overall look and lack of over the top personality in the hulkamania era. Tbh i liked him in ring throughout. He even got a fun little brawl out of Garvin for that Submission match at a Royal Rumble.

Ill say this though. You got me ready to go watch some old Tito matches

This is the exact match to point to to show Greg Valentine had value as an in ring guy in that era, but it was in the wrong company. He would have been completely fine in JCP/WCW in 1988-1990. Just like Ron Garvin didn't fit at all in the WWF during that period. Yet the two of them together in the WWF have this wildly out of place early 80s JCP slug fest and it's awesome for how much it stands out.

Valentine would have been completely fine and appropriately used in the TV or tag title divisions of WCW in the late 80s

 

[Jmare007]

This is the exact match to point to to show Greg Valentine had value as an in ring guy in that era, but it was in the wrong company. He would have been completely fine in JCP/WCW in 1988-1990. Just like Ron Garvin didn't fit at all in the WWF during that period. Yet the two of them together in the WWF have this wildly out of place early 80s JCP slug fest and it's awesome for how much it stands out.

Valentine would have been completely fine and appropriately used in the TV or tag title divisions of WCW in the late 80s

He also had the chance to do it. Flair wanted him in JCP, I think they even thought about giving him Luger's spot. Now that opens up a whole different discussion but Valentine took the money and I can't blame him

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

He also had the chance to do it. Flair wanted him in JCP, I think they even thought about giving him Luger's spot. Now that opens up a whole different discussion but Valentine took the money and I can't blame him

Wait.. his spot as in becoming a Horseman? Man that is a threadworthy discussion there

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Ronnie Garvin only won the title because WWF scheduled the first Survivor Series on the same date as Starrcade and the NWA wanted to have Flair win the title in the main event of their show so he had to drop the belt first. I always thought it was odd that Ronnie got the belt instead of Jimmy Garvin since he had way more personality and he and Flair were feuding over Flair trying to put the moves on Precious.

I don't think Ronnie even defended the belt in the 2 months he had it before dropping it back to Flair.

That happened a lot during Flair's run. Flair would drop a belt and win it back a few months latter. Its the essence of the heel territory. The thing is though, the NWA still had to sign off on that considering it was their title. So enough people believed in Garvin for him to get the belt. Imagine a world where Ronnie Garvin can be your world champ but Rick fukkING Rude cant get approved.

 

[patscorpio]

Valentine was the son of a very well regarded wrestler (Johnny Valentine), was trained by both Stu Hart and the Original Sheik, and had some very good matches and angles in the 70s and 80s (how many times have you seen a take on Valentine's "I Broke Wahoo's Leg" t-shirt?). I remember his dog collar match with Roddy Piper at Starrcade 1983 being pretty good as well.

Problem was that he didn't fit the Rock N Wrestling era at all, and was kind of done as any kind of top level guy by the time the WWF became a really big deal in the late 1980s. If you're thinking of a comparative situation, think about Harley Race's late 1980s WWF run long after his body had given out on him, and you have an idea of where Valentine was at that time.

i thought valentine was above average but that harley race comparison was accurate

 

[Jmare007]

Wait.. his spot as in becoming a Horseman? Man that is a threadworthy discussion there

At least according to Valentine, yes, he was offered a spot on the Horsemen. Jim Ross tried to recruit him after Valentine quit WWF - frustrated by his booking -, supposedly they would've turned Barry Windham face and put Valentine in his place, using his history (and real life friendship) with Flair as the bridge to make the story work.

Cokeboy ended up calling Greg and ended up convincing him to stay though Valentine would later say Vince basically didn't fulfill any of the promises he made him. I guess he got the good ol' "I'll owe you one pal" treatment

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

i thought valentine was above average but that harley race comparison was accurate

His ring work from the late 80’s doesn’t seem any better than Michael Hayes or Bobby Eaton, much less Tully Blanchard or Barry Windham to me.

 

[TrueEpic08]

i thought valentine was above average but that harley race comparison was accurate

Wasn't trying to shyt on Valentine, just compare his spot with Race's at the time. Valentine had like 8-10 years of being pretty good spread across multiple territories, it just so happens that he was most visible after he'd done his best work, in my opinion.

At least according to Valentine, yes, he was offered a spot on the Horsemen. Jim Ross tried to recruit him after Valentine quit WWF - frustrated by his booking -, supposedly they would've turned Barry Windham face and put Valentine in his place, using his history (and real life friendship) with Flair as the bridge to make the story work.

Cokeboy ended up calling Greg and ended up convincing him to stay though Valentine would later say Vince basically didn't fulfill any of the promises he made him. I guess he got the good ol' "I'll owe you one pal" treatment

I did not know this. When was this, like 1988-89 or so? Would have made complete sense too, given the history between Valentine and Flair.

 

[Jmare007]

Wasn't trying to shyt on Valentine, just compare his spot with Race's at the time. Valentine had like 8-10 years of being pretty good spread across multiple territories, it just so happens that he was most visible after he'd done his best work, in my opinion.



I did not know this. When was this, like 1988-89 or so? Would have made complete sense too, given the history between Valentine and Flair.

Yeah, 88/89.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

not in here to say that valentine was wack or anything.

but this thread reminds me of when valentine went on the old Stephen a. smith show back in the day, and tried to plug his name in the with the Hogan, rock, Austin, flairs of the world.

 

[OmegaK2099]

 

[DANJ!]

Yeah if youre watchin' him in the late-80s/early-90s, you're seein' him in washed mode... he had been around for a while and had his best days by then. Before that, he was a natural heel and was pushed as a highly dangerous wrestler who injured people.

Even in the late-80s, this was a standout moment... this was the end of Billy Graham as an on-screen character in the WWF.