Why is layering multiple samples together so uncommon these days?

[ThaRealness]

Back in the day, producers like RZA, Pete Rock & especially Havoc, used that technique regularly. Even then, it was primarily used to craft hooks, rather then over an entire song.

Anyways... before I chopped, eq'ed and filtered samples, that was my main technique. I didn't even know what I was doing. But I knew certain samples just went well together. Now that Ive developed some solid fundamentals.. I get the theory behind sticking to one sample. acoustics clash... sounds with similar frequency ranges will clutter the mix... and most importantly... if you've got a good groove, there's no reason to overcomplicate the process.

But for me personally.... Im always looking for a point of reference. So if Im listening to a French funk soundtrack... and the bassline is weak... Im like "damn this sounds just like that joint off of Coffy "


And if I can filter out the low end of 1 of those tracks, and the high end of the other... fukk it Imma go to work.

Last week or 2 Ive come to the conclusion that layering is a slept on technique

 

[DJ Mart-Kos]

Don't know why but gotta agree with you.
I never use 2 samples though. I just pick different parts of the same song and layer that. Gotta be in Key.

 

[producingfire]

Back in the day, producers like RZA, Pete Rock & especially Havoc, used that technique regularly. Even then, it was primarily used to craft hooks, rather then over an entire song.

Anyways... before I chopped, eq'ed and filtered samples, that was my main technique. I didn't even know what I was doing. But I knew certain samples just went well together. Now that Ive developed some solid fundamentals.. I get the theory behind sticking to one sample. acoustics clash... sounds with similar frequency ranges will clutter the mix... and most importantly... if you've got a good groove, there's no reason to overcomplicate the process.

But for me personally.... Im always looking for a point of reference. So if Im listening to a French funk soundtrack... and the bassline is weak... Im like "damn this sounds just like that joint off of Coffy "


And if I can filter out the low end of 1 of those tracks, and the high end of the other... fukk it Imma go to work.

Last week or 2 Ive come to the conclusion that layering is a slept on technique

Independently layering samples might work. However if you are talking about a larger scale record that's more money you have to pay out in the end. When you clear one record you have to get permission from the record label to use the sound recording as well as the publishing company to clear the record. Now lets say the song you cleared had 2+ writers on it. You have to get the clearance from all 2+ writers plus the right to use the master sound recording.

I know of a few french Montana records that do this, but I can assure you that it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of money from the record. By the time the money is split, the record ends up losing money, with no money going back into the artists record label. Let alone the artists's pocket. Royalty's aren't even an option here as the pub percentage got gobbled up by the songwriters of the original sample.

Now imagine if you have to do that with another sample used in the same instrumental. that's another 1+ songwriter= even less money. When the record label is going to lose so much money, they most likely will opt to not even clear it. Take Big Sean's "Control" from last year. It all comes down to how much money you have, how much money you can gain, and how much money you will lose.

I hope this helps you

 

[Tetris v2.0]

Pete Rock was the king of this. Soul Survivor and Petestrumentals was the apex of that sound. Then he stopped cold turkey after he started messing with the MPC, now his beats sound very flat and looped

 

[ThaRealness]

Pete Rock was the king of this. Soul Survivor and Petestrumentals was the apex of that sound. Then he stopped cold turkey after he started messing with the MPC, now his beats sound very flat and looped

I was gonna say Havoc... but yeah u right... Petestrumentals is some complex shyt. Kind of weird how.. when u think about it... there's really nothing like that album. I guess the closest thing to it would be Dilla Joints by The Roots

 

[1/2OfDaBruinz]

Well first off all, because that shyt is hard. You have to have an ear for it, and even then it can be time consuming. Secondly, the game has evolved to where that sound is not appreciated on a mainstream level. Basically, nikkas don't give a fukk about the craftsmanship of producers.

As well, the current sound that is hot is not sample based music. It's the digital/ original beat sound. That digging in the crates era is over. Maybe it will come back around, but If it does, it won't be anytime soon. I would love that because I'm a sample based producer, but this is not the right era for us I'm more of a hobbyist than anything because trying to make a decent amount of money with a sampled based style in this era really difficult. As Jay said, I do it for the culture.

A few months ago, I played a nikka some beats in Atlanta and he asked me if I could replay the samples because he didn't want to get sued I was like, nobody knows who the fukk you are, you trying to put some shyt on Dat Piff. He told me he wanted to be safe in case radio picked up a song I told him to worry about them problems if they come, because they are good problems for an unknown artist, but yeah thats the mind frame of a lot of cats.

It's still a lane for the layering samples style, but it's become more niche.

 

[Wildin]

Well first off all, because that shyt is hard. You have to have an ear for it, and even then it can be time consuming. Secondly, the game has evolved to where that sound is not appreciated on a mainstream level. Basically, nikkas don't give a fukk about the craftsmanship of producers.

As well, the current sound that is hot is not sample based music. It's the digital/ original beat sound. That digging in the crates era is over. Maybe it will come back around, but If it does, it won't be anytime soon. I would love that because I'm a sample based producer, but this is not the right era for us I'm more of a hobbyist than anything because trying to make a decent amount of money with a sampled based style in this era really difficult. As Jay said, I do it for the culture.

A few months ago, I played a nikka some beats in Atlanta and he asked me if I could replay the samples because he didn't want to get sued I was like, nobody knows who the fukk you are, you trying to put some shyt on Dat Piff. He told me he wanted to be safe in case radio picked up a song I told him to worry about them problems if they come, because they are good problems for an unknown artist, but yeah thats the mind frame of a lot of cats.

It's still a lane for the layering samples style, but it's become more niche.

everything you said was the truth.

cats dont be diggin like that anymore.

cats dont know things that are what I call essential to beatmaking. For instance I can sit and talk with a few people that ive made music with about the amen break. And we are all 25+ so we can talk about that break as well as other famous breaks, hell even famous shakers, hats, kicks and snares.

Talking with some of the people ive met in the last 3-4 years even the ones that call themselves sample based producers--they dont really know anything about the origin of sounds. They dont have an encyclopedic knowledge of breaks, snares, kicks, hats, or even knowledge about particular samples that have been used dozens of times.

That doesnt say anything about their skills, some are really pretty good but that connection is lost, because people that used to dig in the crates have bought the same records, heard the same shyt. and prior to music libraries blowing up (becoming super readily accessible) finding grooves and breaks and such was what we did.

 

[ThaRealness]

Well first off all, because that shyt is hard. You have to have an ear for it, and even then it can be time consuming. Secondly, the game has evolved to where that sound is not appreciated on a mainstream level. Basically, nikkas don't give a fukk about the craftsmanship of producers.

As well, the current sound that is hot is not sample based music. It's the digital/ original beat sound. That digging in the crates era is over. Maybe it will come back around, but If it does, it won't be anytime soon. I would love that because I'm a sample based producer, but this is not the right era for us I'm more of a hobbyist than anything because trying to make a decent amount of money with a sampled based style in this era really difficult. As Jay said, I do it for the culture.

A few months ago, I played a nikka some beats in Atlanta and he asked me if I could replay the samples because he didn't want to get sued I was like, nobody knows who the fukk you are, you trying to put some shyt on Dat Piff. He told me he wanted to be safe in case radio picked up a song I told him to worry about them problems if they come, because they are good problems for an unknown artist, but yeah thats the mind frame of a lot of cats.

It's still a lane for the layering samples style, but it's become more niche.

It's hard, but it's not as hard as it seems. I don't consider it my go to technique because more often then not the track won't sound right. But those few times when it does

 

[DJ Mart-Kos]

Pete Rock was the king of this. Soul Survivor and Petestrumentals was the apex of that sound. Then he stopped cold turkey after he started messing with the MPC, now his beats sound very flat and looped

Well, Petestrumentals was made with the MPC.
I think Petestrumentals is the greatest beattape of all time.
I do agree that Pete's beats where better back than.

 

[karim]

because it became too expensive early hiphop records were using this technique regularly, the bomb squad were the kings of the layered sample sound. then artists started getting sued for sample clearence and the sound started to change from less samples to no samples (remember that horrible triton era in the late nineties, early 2000's?).

what i find fascinating is that hiphop was always accused of stealing, while artists like fatboy slim or moby got celebrated for creatively layering samples and made tons of money from it.

 

[Tetris v2.0]

Well, Petestrumentals was made with the MPC.
I think Petestrumentals is the greatest beattape of all time.
I do agree that Pete's beats where better back than.

Actually Petestrumentals was mostly older beats from the early 90s that were mixed into that project. Pete was using the s950 and SP during that time. The sound of those beats is completely in line with his vintage sound

Soul Survivor 2 is when he started with the MPC and you can notice the drop off in quality

 

[DJ Mart-Kos]

Actually Petestrumentals was mostly older beats from the early 90s that were mixed into that project. Pete was using the s950 and SP during that time. The sound of those beats is completely in line with his vintage sound

Soul Survivor 2 is when he started with the MPC and you can notice the drop off in quality

Alright, i thought i remember Pete saying in an Interview he used the MPC for that.

 

[DJ Mart-Kos]

Actually Petestrumentals was mostly older beats from the early 90s that were mixed into that project. Pete was using the s950 and SP during that time. The sound of those beats is completely in line with his vintage sound

Soul Survivor 2 is when he started with the MPC and you can notice the drop off in quality

Yep, i agree.
When NY's Finest in 2008 came out i noticed his beats not being that great anymore neither though.

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

this should be blasphemy i try and use more than 2 samples in my songs sometimes very rarely do i use only just 1 sample even if it's just the drums

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

I played a nikka some beats in Atlanta and he asked me if I could replay the samples because he didn't want to get sued I was like, nobody knows who the fukk you are

even if you replayed them you can still be sued check robin thicke, labels don't play they want theirs too