Why is Havoc of Mobb Deep so overlooked?

[TheDarceKnight]

He may be outlined by Alchemist at this point who took his style and ran with it

On this forum Alchemist as producer is held in higher regard than Havoc.



Alchemist has been more prolific in sheer number of produced songs in the past decade and prominence of placements than Havoc unavoidable fact

So I'll drop my take real quick. TL;DR: Hip-Hop (and the internet) are both "what have you done for me lately" places. If Hav had produced almost 80 tracks in 2020 like Alc has, I think he'd get just as much love. Of course Hav has produced more classic albums, but it's also unrealistic to expect everyone on here to bring up Hav's classic work from 20-25 years ago every time any other dope producer drops a new project.

This is a board where people discuss music mostly as it's being released. We talk about old music too, but Alc has dropped more music in the 2010's (during The Coli's existence) than he did in the 2000's (before The Coli). Havoc has had a quiet 2010's compared to Alc. Hav's last album dropped almost half a decade ago.

I don't really think Alc took hav's style. if anything I think he sort of took DJ Premier's style and blended it with Havoc, Large Pro, RZA, and Muggs. At least early on. And he gives a lot of credit to Primo and Hav for mentoring him. Then in 2010 he got influenced heavy by psychedelic drugs and hanging out with Madlib, Roc Marci, and Oh No, and then he changed his style quite a bit.

I agree with @Fiend that obviously Alchemist doesn't have an Infamous or Hell to his name, but honestly at this point in time it's just not possible to make albums that impactful anymore. It's a different era. It's a strong era. But it's just truly not possible for anyone like hav or Alc that have been in the game almost 30 years to make albums that sound like those, because they sounded like nothing we'd ever heard. It's too late for anyone that far in to make stuff that we've never heard before AND have it change the game. Hav is arguably top 5 DOA based on the strength of that 3 Mobb album run alone.

Alc is being as dope as he can be this far into the game, and he's taking a different route by doing full albums with the next generation. Hav gets just as much love here on The Coli IMO when he's talked about, but he's just not spoken about as much. He doesn't drop as much music and he's an even more private person than Alc is, which is saying a lot.

ALL THAT BEING SAID, HAV > ALC AND I CAN'T WAIT FOR HAVOC'S UPCOMING PROJECTS WITH METHOD MAN AND FLEE LORD.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

I always thought they were about even for the most part.

P on HOE tho and his features that year


P was the best MC in the game in 96

 

[Ziggiy]

The “producer” in the group always seems to get overlooked a bit Bars wise.


That plus Prodigy at one time was one of the top 8 best rappers and top 5 in New York.


That PLUS like he said he suffered from Social Anxiety (something it seems a LOT of Queensbridge rappers suffer from) so he didn’t really “go” for it when Mobb was shining bright. You can’t be a ghost in the rap world unless your a supernova like Nas or already wildly successful like say a modern day Kendrick or J.Cole

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

If the bolded is true then it's a shame. If you play P's solo catalogue for anyone that likes hip-hop and even vaguely enjoys Mobb Deep, chances are they'll like it. I've put a lot of friends in real life on to HNIC, Return of the Mac, and Albert Einstein.

Not everyone carves a legacy as a solo artist. It's not in the cards for everyone to be able to do it. And on top of that, it's actually very difficult for members of duos to be able to transition into successful solo careers. Most members of groups and duos struggle with it, and can never generate momentum outside of the group dynamic, or they just end up not having enough to say that can't be said in the dynamics of a group.

Prodigy actually did a better job than many when it comes to making dope solo albums. He was able to carve out a lane of conspiracy theory, anti-Illuminati, pain rap, spiritual awakening, and woke rap on his own because it was more difficult to rap about in the Mobb duo. And he was on that stuff way before some of it got more mainstream. He was almost on some Ab-Soul type stuff. He was also one of the first cats from another group to do full producer collab albums (with Alc and also Sid Roams). he was ahead of his time on that, because everyone does that now.

all of this, and you didnt list one quality that prodigy had that wouldve made him a legend if he came out solo and mobb deep never existed.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

all of this, and you didnt list one quality that prodigy had that wouldve made him a legend if he came out solo and mobb deep never existed.

Because I honestly can't even imagine what that would sound like or look like. I mean if you view that as Prodigy not being that dope then that's fine.

Not everyone is meant to be a solo artist, and it's just really tough for me to imagine Prodigy outside of a duo. Even on his 1st solo album he didn't have a whole lot to say yet. It took P time to find his niche.

So yeah, I can't imagine him as a solo artist in 1994. But a lot of the best emcees to me work better in a. group dynamic. I still might have them high on my list though. '96 might be a different story. Tell me you wouldn't like an album with Apotle's Warning, Still Shining, and Hell on Earth/Front Lines verses from P.

 

[Deuterion]

nikka P is one of the best...that nikka rips it.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

First I see posters questioning Tribe and now it's controversial to say that P was a GOAT level rapper? The fukk

Hav is my 2nd favorite Producer/Rapper (behind Rza) and in my top 5 producers. Absolute beast and the fact that he could even keep up with P was incredible. Alot of these modern underground/street rappers are Mobb babies and those producers are Rza/Muggs/Hav babies - Alc is literally a protégé of Muggs/Hav.

P is in my top 5 all time. Y'all need to quit this shyt before @mobbinfms starts throwing TVs and stabbing ya brains with ya nosebones.

 

[dj-method-x]

Havoc deserves WAY more respect as a producer

 

[You Win Perfect]

fukk do ya'll idiots be talkin about when you make these topics. HOW OLD ARE YOU? AND WHAT RACE ARE YOU?
just a stupid topic. tMOBB DEEP IS CERTIFIED LEGENDS

 

[DrHackenbush]

My favourite producer ever but as an MC he was never really that great to me. He improved a lot as Mobb's catalogue progressed, but he just didn't have the same charisma or presence that P had

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Because I honestly can't even imagine what that would sound like or look like. I mean if you view that as Prodigy not being that dope then that's fine.

Not everyone is meant to be a solo artist, and it's just really tough for me to imagine Prodigy outside of a duo. Even on his 1st solo album he didn't have a whole lot to say yet. It took P time to find his niche.

So yeah, I can't imagine him as a solo artist in 1994. But a lot of the best emcees to me work better in a. group dynamic. I still might have them high on my list though. '96 might be a different story. Tell me you wouldn't like an album with Apotle's Warning, Still Shining, and Hell on Earth/Front Lines verses from P.

i dont see him making a big dent solo in '94,5 or 6.

and if you didnt do it big solo, you shouldnt be ranked. i just rank mobb deep. im not into ranking group guys in the same breath as the solo cats. its a whole different ballgame.

 

[KingsOfKings]

Good question