Why is America so Segregated

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BBC News - Woolwich murder sparks anti-Muslim backlash


25 May 2013 Last updated at 16:50 ET


Woolwich murder sparks anti-Muslim backlash


There has been a large increase in anti-Muslim incidents since the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich, an inter-faith organisation has said.
Faith Matters, which runs a helpline, said they had received 162 calls since Wednesday's attack, up from a daily average of six.
A number of people have been charged after allegedly offensive comments were made on social media websites.
Meanwhile, three more arrests have been made in connection with the murder.
Drummer Rigby was killed near Woolwich Barracks on Wednesday.
On Saturday night, two men, aged 24 and 28, were arrested by Met Police counter-terrorism detectives at a residential address in south-east London.
At roughly the same time, a 21-year-old man was arrested in the street in Charlton Lane, Charlton, south-east London.
Taser stun guns were used on both the 21-year-old and the 28-year-old but neither required hospital treatment.
The Met Police said officers were also carrying out search warrants at four further south-east London homes on Saturday night.
Shortly after the killing of Drummer Rigby, 28-year-old Michael Adebolajo was filmed by a passer-by saying he had carried out the attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.
Mr Adebolajo and a second suspect, Michael Adebowale, 22, were arrested at the scene and remain in a stable condition in hospital after they were shot by police. Both men were known to the security services, sources told the BBC.
A further 29-year-old man, arrested on Thursday on suspicion of conspiracy to murder, has been bailed to return pending further inquiries.
'Significant online activity'
Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, said the nature of anti-Muslim incidents since Wednesday's murder, ranged from attacks against mosques, graffiti, the pulling off of Muslim women's headscarves and more general name calling and abuse.
He told BBC Radio 5 Live: "What's really concerning is the spread of these incidents. They're coming in from right across the country.
"Secondly, some of them are quite aggressive very focused, very aggressive attacks.
"And thirdly, there also seems to be significant online activity... suggesting co-ordination of incidents and attacks against institutions or places where Muslims congregate."
Since the attack, a number of people have been charged by police after allegedly offensive messages were posted on social media websites.
These include a 22-year-old man from Lincoln, a 28-year-old man from London, a 23-year-old woman from Southsea, and a 19-year-old man from Woking.
Three men - two from Gateshead and one from Stockton - have been arrested by Northumbria Police on suspicion of posting racist tweets.
It came ahead of a protest by the English Defence League (EDL) in Newcastle in which around 1,500 people took part. It had been planned for months.
MI5 approach
A friend of Mr Adebolajo, Abu Nusaybah, was arrested on Friday night on BBC premises following an interview with BBC Newsnight.
The arrest was not directly related to the murder of Drummer Rigby, the Met Police said.
Mr Nusayabah told the programme that Mr Adebolajo had rejected an approach by MI5 to work for them around six months ago.
He said it followed a trip to Kenya where Mr Nusaybah said Mr Adebolajo had been detained by security forces.
He said he noticed "a change" in Mr Adebolajo when he returned from Africa last year.
Abu Nusaybah said Mr Adebolajo suggested he had been physically and sexually abused during an interrogation in a prison cell in the African country.
However, a spokesman for the Kenyan government, Muthui Kariuki, told the BBC Mr Adebolajo had never been to Kenya.
"I have been in touch with our security people, and I have been assured by all the relevant departments that... [he] has never been to this country."
Next week the director general of MI5 Andrew Parker is expected to present an initial report on the role of the security services to a Parliamentary committee, which is carrying out an investigation.
Media reports have suggested that both suspects attended the University of Greenwich.
But in a statement released on Saturday, vice-chancellor Prof David Maguire said the university had no records relating to Mr Adebowale.
"Our records show that a Michael Adebolajo was registered in academic years 2003/2004 and 2004/2005. His academic progress was unsatisfactory and he was not permitted to complete his studies here," he said.
Prof Maguire also said an investigation was being launched into whether there was any evidence of extremism, past or present, at the university.
Meanwhile, the father of Damilola Taylor, the schoolboy stabbed to death in Peckham in 2000, has told ITV News he acted as a mentor to Mr Adebowala.
He knew him since the age of 10 and became his mentor after his mother got in touch to say he was experiencing problems in school and was being bullied.
"He was a young, loving boy" but later it appeared there were issues around gangs and drugs, said Mr Taylor.
He said he last spoke to Mr Adebowla about two months ago and believes others had more influence over him.
'Solidarity'
Both Mr Adebolajo and Mr Adebowale, Britons of Nigerian descent, are understood to be converts to Islam, with Mr Adebolajo originally coming from a Christian family.
Maajid Nawaz, from the anti-extremism think tank the Quilliam Foundation, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme there is a "disproportionate number of convicted terrorists who've come from a conversion background".
Batool Al-Toma, an Irish-born woman who converted to Islam 25 years ago, said converts may be "vulnerable" to more radical views because they feel a "sense of isolation and alienation from family and friends".
Speaking about the fight against the rise of the extremist ideology, Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police Sir Peter Fahy told the BBC there had been a "steady stream of plots", which had on the whole been foiled by police.
But he said the police and the security services were "particularly concerned" about people travelling from Britain to conflict areas such as Mali, Syria and Iraq and the increase in extremist websites.
Tributes have continued to be paid to Drummer Rigby, with a steady stream of well-wishers adding to the hundreds of flowers already placed near the scene of the killing.
Scores of motorcyclists supporting the Help For Heroes charity rode past the scene in a show of support for Drummer Rigby's family.
And a "solidarity march" by the Nigerian community took place on Saturday morning from Plumstead station to Woolwich town centre.
On Friday, Drummer Rigby's wife Rebecca, the mother of his two-year-old son, said she had been aware of the dangers of her husband serving in countries where there was armed conflict, including Afghanistan, but added: "You don't expect it to happen when he's in the UK. You think they're safe."
She said: "I love Lee and always will. I am proud to be his wife. He was a devoted father to our son Jack and we will both miss him terribly."
Drummer Rigby's stepfather, Ian Rigby, said: "We would like to say 'Goodnight Lee, rest in peace our fallen soldier. We love you loads and words cannot describe how loved and sadly missed you will be'."


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machine01

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i was looking at stl demographics and it was shocking to me coming from ca and in a very mixed area to see the way people live out there

i was like yall dont even have mexicans.... just either pure white or pure black....

race relations in that city have to be the worst in the country

For the most part this is the case, but there are certain parts of towns dedicated to ethnicities.

Mexicans and Latinos are spread out here and there, and there are even neighborhoods dedicated to Italians and Irish, for example.

Same for Asians too. They're harder to find because of the extreme example that you highlighted, but if you look in certain neighborhoods, you'll find pockets of Asian and Mexican communities.
 

No_bammer_weed

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I understand that but why isn't that social conditioning natural too, It's been around sense the beginning of time, It usually starts with family, blood is thicker than water, It's proven that while getting older we naturally become more conservative, maybe it's because of more responsibility but with being more conservative also means being less accepting, that's why you tend to see older people less accepting of change and I am not talking about racial change, refusing to listen to a generation's music, technology, etc.. so those older people will naturally associate with those who don't subscribe to things they are not comfortable with. I think as people get older they also they tend to become more aware, segregation has more to do with being comfortable and secure than anything. Most people think segregation only extends to race, I am not just focusing on color.

This is a good response, and a really smart way to advance the discussion. You're very bright.

That said, even comfort and secure are socially controlled variables. People feel more "comfort" with a similar race, because thats how they've been socially conditioned. Its not based on any biological reasoning. We cant extract feelings from social group think, and how one has been taught.

Even the way one expresses conservative leanings as one ages is social in nature. True, people do grow more conservative, but thats in large part a hostility towards those that are younger. Older people feel discomfort because they cant relate to youth, and their social circle becomes smaller.

You'll notice that many of their claims or feelings arent logical. For instance, many older black fans will say they dont like new rap because of moral reasons, yet they will still listen to their old favorites from back in the day, and those rappers had the same topics (money, drugs, violence, hoes). Its because they have been conditioned to like their artists, because they were socially inspired to do so in their youth, and they still hold and affinity towards them.
 

stealthbomber

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so yall just gonna accept that america is segregated? :what: :what: :what:

of course there are places that are still racially split, but segregated??

we're not even close to comparable to south africa
 

Chris.B

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I do not know about segregation, all I know is I do not want to associate with ignorant loud ass motherfukkers.

That's I live in a white neighborhood :manny:

You won't even hear a pin drop around here. But on some real sh!t most people feel comfortable living among similar folks in terms of mostly income.
 

acri1

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Partially because of redlining, partially self-segregation out of habit, but I also blame it a lot on politics, especially right-wing political organizations here.

They go to great lengths to drum up racial resentment for the purpose of getting votes. Your average white guy who watches FOX news (not saying all do) is probably already going to be inclined to dislike minorities just based off that.
 

Black Magisterialness

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This good response, and a really smart way to advance the discussion. You're very bright.

That said, even comfort and secure are socially controlled variables. People feel more "comfort" with a similar race, because thats how they've been socially conditioned. Its not based on any biological reasoning. We cant extract feelings from social group think, and how one has been taught.

Even the way one expresses conservative leanings as one ages is social in nature. True, people do grow more conservative, but thats in large part a hostility towards those that are younger. Older people feel discomfort because they cant relate to youth, and their social circle becomes smaller.

You'll notice that many of their claims or feelings arent logical. For instance, many older black fans will say they dont like new rap because of moral reasons, yet they will still listen to their old favorites from back in the day, and those rappers had the same topics (money, drugs, violence, hoes). Its because they have been conditioned to like their artists, because they were socially inspired to do so in their youth, and they still hold and affinity towards them.

Good postings.

I think though that once we get DECADES into the internet era that age gap will diminish just as the distance, and race gaps are diminishing in cyberspace.

As for segregation in the states and the UK. You are looking at traditionally white male dominated societies. And as we all know white baby boomer males are the paragons of social paranoia and fear mongering. In America, this issue i think is being alleviated in the cities strangely enough by young Whites. Now the issue is really culture clashes and not so much race. There are many young black folks who aren't getting down with the whole "organic, whole foods, fixed gear bike" steez of the urban whites.

I truly think the clashes are more cultural than racial now....but once the baby boomer all die out, this as well as segregation based on sexual orientation will die out...its just not acceptable to the current/younger generation.
 

machine01

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Good postings.

I think though that once we get DECADES into the internet era that age gap will diminish just as the distance, and race gaps are diminishing in cyberspace.

As for segregation in the states and the UK. You are looking at traditionally white male dominated societies. And as we all know white baby boomer males are the paragons of social paranoia and fear mongering. In America, this issue i think is being alleviated in the cities strangely enough by young Whites. Now the issue is really culture clashes and not so much race. There are many young black folks who aren't getting down with the whole "organic, whole foods, fixed gear bike" steez of the urban whites.

I truly think the clashes are more cultural than racial now....but once the baby boomer all die out, this as well as segregation based on sexual orientation will die out...its just not acceptable to the current/younger generation.

They said the same thing about Generation X'ers and they're some of the most racist people.

Not to the structural point that baby boomers are, but don't act like everyone in the younger generations past the boomers co-sign on these things.
 

Chris.B

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Partially because of redlining, partially self-segregation out of habit, but I also blame it a lot on politics, especially right-wing political organizations here.

They go to great lengths to drum up racial resentment for the purpose of getting votes. Your average white guy who watches FOX news (not saying all do) is probably already going to be inclined to dislike minorities just based off that.

stop reading into it.

It has everything to do with income. Most rich black folks don't live in urban communities either.

Everything comes down to income.
 

Black Magisterialness

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They said the same thing about Generation X'ers and they're some of the most racist people.

Not to the structural point that baby boomers are, but don't act like everyone in the younger generations past the boomers co-sign on these things.

I'll agree but remember Gen X is the generation of wasted potential. Hardest affected by crack ect.

With no education/wealth comes no exposure, and that leads to ignorance. I think Millineals have already proven that their levels of tolerance and feelings on social inequality are far beyond the ones that came before them.
 

machine01

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I'll agree but remember Gen X is the generation of wasted potential. Hardest affected by crack ect.

With no education/wealth comes no exposure, and that leads to ignorance. I think Millineals have already proven that their levels of tolerance and feelings on social inequality are far beyond the ones that came before them.

Two words: The Misc.

:lolbron:

EDIT: While the misc obviously doesn't represent all of the millennial generation, it's a good indication that this group can get just as nasty if they want to be. ***** is a good example too. These are the kids that run around using the word nikka right in front of black kids faces, and they don't know that they're laughing at them behind their back, when the black kids think they're just trying to be "cool". :huhldup:

I was born in '90, but I still be giving kids the :birdman: if they try to do it around me.
 
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For the most part this is the case, but there are certain parts of towns dedicated to ethnicities.

Mexicans and Latinos are spread out here and there, and there are even neighborhoods dedicated to Italians and Irish, for example.


i read a little thing somewhere that said gentrification is not even happening in st louis which is crazy to me... even cities like oakland, detroit, etc are getting gentrified... thats how segregated it still is out there... :why:
 

machine01

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i read a little thing somewhere that said gentrification is not even happening in st louis which is crazy to me... even cities like oakland, detroit, etc are getting gentrified... thats how segregated it still is out there... :why:

Pretty much.

shyt, up until I read the NYC gentrification thread on this forum, I had no idea what it even was. Never even heard the word before. :huhldup:
 
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