You speak of God like he's a living being. Natural Selection and Evolution are the processes that allowed Humans to gain their current form. So lets appreciate that before we attribute such things to some deity.
Why doesn't God reveal himself to those who don't believe? (3 min.VID)
- Thread starter valet
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No, this isn't a coincidence. I quite like debating the subject of religion and I suppose you do too.
I'm happy to pose my thoughts to you friend, lots of conversations on the Coli and everywhere else get heated and a bit silly, so please take my words as genuine things to think about, and I'll do so with yours.
Coming back to the death of a baby, it suggests that either life on Earth isn't important, or else why kill the baby? And why use the child as part of a test? What about poor children who's parents abandon it? The child lives without a family and dies. There's no one to teach lessons to or improve one's faith – so what's the reason for the kid's suffering and demise?
that's the cool part
the standards are so loose that it really can be whenever you want it to be and no one would have any basis to challenge you
and then we are right back where we started, swords, bullets and bloodshed
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
What is the origin of natural selection and evolution? It's only logical that there must have been some form of life to naturally select from and evolve.
So in terms of the creation of the universe and the origins of life, your friend suddenly seems powerless.
and where does that life form come from and its parents? grandparents?
do you see where this is going?
if things must come from something else, then what does god come from?
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Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
Actually, I LOATHE these discussions. Especially here. I usually omit this section altogether.
But the questions you ask aren't for me to answer. And those lessons, fortunately, haven't been presented to me to learn.
But if you were to ask me the importance of life I would say for us to know ourselves, and our actions, experiences and reactions serve as evidence as to who we are as individuals. If you're poor you can hate your situation, rob banks or other dishonest things. This will serve as evidence as to what type of character that person has. Or they can be grateful for what they have and make the most of their seemingly bad situation. I think you'll agree that's better. But wealth is a test as well. A wealthy person can hoard their money, spend it recklessly, look down on others and still be ungrateful by constantly wanting more, or they can be thankful and charitable. Either way we go, in any situation, is what makes up our character.
Then, God says, we all go back to Him and He will tell us about what we did with our time here.
There is no "origin" to natural selection/evolution, it's just what happens. Humans are always asking that question, "but where did that come from?" it's like asking where gravity came from... These are just natural laws of the universe, if there even is an answer to "Where did gravity come from?" I seriously doubt that answer is knowable by humans here on Earth. I mean, you'd literally have to be able to talk to the universe itself on some Avatar shyt. In terms of the bolded I'm not sure what you're saying exactly and I'm not sure you know exactly what natural selection is. Biological life arose on earth (in a way that has not been determined by science) and interacted with the environment which changes the organism over time. I think it's pretty logically safe to assume that biological life comes about in a naturalistic process and I think that answer will be answered by science in a relatively short period of time.
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
Using your logic, coupled with the non-existence of God, your questioning would literally go on forever. That's not logical.
And this is why I questioned your understanding of God in the other thread. God is the creator. As such, He exists outside of the creation. You're trying to apply the rules of the creation to the creator.
Who painted the artist? Who cooked the chef? Who wrote the author?
All of these questions show a clear lack of understanding.
But if you were to ask me the importance of life I would say for us to know ourselves, and our actions, experiences and reactions serve as evidence as to who we are as individuals. If you're poor you can hate your situation, rob banks or other dishonest things. This will serve as evidence as to what type of character that person has. Or they can be grateful for what they have and make the most of their seemingly bad situation. I think you'll agree that's better. But wealth is a test as well. A wealthy person can hoard their money, spend it recklessly, look down on others and still be ungrateful by constantly wanting more, or they can be thankful and charitable. Either way we go, in any situation, is what makes up our character.
Then, God says, we all go back to Him and He will tell us about what we did with our time here.
I agree totally with your main paragraph, we make our own meaning to life. But the last line on it's own I have no reason to believe is true. I'm not sold on all of the claims.
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
This doesn't make any sense. "It just happens"? So there is no life form in existence and some force you call natural selection naturally selects from this pool of nothingness and starts to evolve it?
Your theory has a HUGE hole in it. Your answer is incomplete and thus incoherent.
"...yadda yadda yadda, life suddenly and inexplicably appeared AND THEN my theory became to take shape."
Sorry, friend, you lost me way before natural selection and evolution.
Propaganda
Superstar
having seen jesus shuttlesworth talk religion before, you guys should know realize that he literally has nothing else to offer you other than something along the lines of "blah blah blah, i'm going to reword the watchmaker analogy over and over again"
.
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I don't have to explain to you how biological life formed on planet earth to have a scientific theory of evolution. Your post explains a lot, it's pretty pointless to continue our back and forth when you're not scientifically educated. Good day sir.
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
Well that's where belief comes into play. But I can assure you the evidence is there for those who seek it. But if you've already made up your mind, it's easy to ignore the signs. I don't give advice, but I would suggest you study up on the subject. Get all the information before making such a decision.
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
I don't have to explain to you how biological life formed on planet earth to have a scientific theory of evolution. Your post explains a lot, it's pretty pointless to continue our back and forth when you're not scientifically educated. Good day sir.
Ok but I never denied anything you said. I simply said you're argument starts in the middle and you completely omitted the beginning part. That's where the disagreement comes in and that's also where you have no answer. Coincidence? Well, I already told you I don't believe in those.
Peace