Why didnt House Music develop the South?

[truth2you]

You are an idiot. There were clubs, bars, happy hours, strip clubs, etc in the 60s 70s 80s everywhere. People in MY weren the only people partying idiot. Guest what? Black people, white people, straight people, gay people,etc parties in the 60s/etc. You an idiot if you think NYC was the only city in the 60s with clubs, etc.

Man, you are sad!

No one said people didn't party, they didn't have a nightclub, or as they called them "discotheques", scene.

Matter of fact lets do this, name me these nightclubs in your area from the 70's to early 80's, and then I would name the ones in NYC. I'm not gonna debate how I feel, lets show facts

 

[james green]

Not going back and forth. If you think NYC was the only city with clubs then so be it. Peace

 

[Poitier]

But the amount of people wasn't the same.

Plus, NOLA is still like a little small town. If I'm correct the only area that is the party area is Bourbon St., and most of the partying is done in small bars, and clubs, with live bands. That is much different from going to a big nightclub with a dj who plays music from all over the place.

I think NOLA club scene is bigger than JUST Bourbon which is tourist centric (frenchmen st for example)

Heck you have second lines where they party in the street and balls/festivals/parades happening pretty much year-round outside of the confines of Bourbon St.

I doubt the bounce scene was cultivated on Bourbon either but in hood hole in the wall clubs only locals could rattle off.

 

[truth2you]

I think NOLA club scene is bigger than JUST Bourbon which is tourist centric (frenchmen st for example)

Heck you have second lines where they party in the street and balls/festivals/parades happening pretty much year-round outside of the confines of Bourbon St.

I doubt the bounce scene was cultivated on Bourbon either but in hood hole in the wall clubs only locals could rattle off.

I know that, but I'm talking about actual nightclubs with a dj, not just partying, and with a live band. Look how you just wrote the bounce scene was probably cultivated in hole in the wall clubs only for the locals. That's not the same as a nightclub scene. If I go by that there would be even more in NYC.

The reason I said Bourbon st. is because its all in the same area, that's what I mean.

For example, if you go to Manhattan, you can go to at least 6 NIGHTCLUBS WITH A DJ that can hold 500 people(at least) within a 6-10 block radius. That isn't even including the outer boroughs where the nightclubs are more separated.

 

[Poitier]

hole in the wall clubs only for the locals. That's not the same as a nightclub scene.

Outside of size, what are the differences?

Both are ecosystems for locals where homegrown music was cultivated. NOLA had DJs.

This is all besides the point because rap was not only adopted fairly quickly in the South but we had our own equivalent of drum machine music so its definitely not a regional thing.

 

[truth2you]

Outside of size, what are the differences?

Both are ecosystems for locals where homegrown music was cultivated. NOLA had DJs.

This is all besides the point because rap was not only adopted fairly quickly in the South but we had our own equivalent of drum machine music so its definitely not a regional thing.

When you have a huge amount of people in your party, you are gonna have to cater to them with different styles of music. This is especially true when there are different types of people in the party. And the more dj's in your area, the more the competition.

This is what helps develop new styles. House music is a prime example. It is an extension of disco with the 4/4 beat. The music started getting electric, and dj's used those sounds to help keep the same vibe of disco without it being the same. That helps more people come to your party because you are different, but not so different that its a totally new sound.

Bass music is an extension of "planet rock" as those songs keep the same tempo, and drum pattern. "planet rock" was huge when it came out, and people loved that vibe, so it would make sense as a dj to play songs with that vibe as your style. Again, dj's weren't in huge numbers so you would have less competition. Dj equipment is not cheap, especially back then, so it was even less dj's then now! NYC had more because of the blackout in 1977, people were stealing equipment, and now there were tons of djs all over the place, and that increases competition, so you had to be different.

You get these different styles from the competition that comes from a large nightclub scene. If it was just about partying, then the competition would be about the actual party which would be the dancing, so different areas would have dance moves, and maybe where the party happens. There would be no need for the actual music to change because the dj's are not in huge numbers, so there is not that much competition.

 

[Poitier]

When you have a huge amount of people in your party, you are gonna have to cater to them with different styles of music. This is especially true when there are different types of people in the party. And the more dj's in your area, the more the competition.

This is what helps develop new styles. House music is a prime example. It is an extension of disco with the 4/4 beat. The music started getting electric, and dj's used those sounds to help keep the same vibe of disco without it being the same. That helps more people come to your party because you are different, but not so different that its a totally new sound.

Bass music is an extension of "planet rock" as those songs keep the same tempo, and drum pattern. "planet rock" was huge when it came out, and people loved that vibe, so it would make sense as a dj to play songs with that vibe as your style. Again, dj's weren't in huge numbers so you would have less competition. Dj equipment is not cheap, especially back then, so it was even less dj's then now! NYC had more because of the blackout in 1977, people were stealing equipment, and now there were tons of djs all over the place, and that increases competition, so you had to be different.

You get these different styles from the competition that comes from a large nightclub scene. If it was just about partying, then the competition would be about the actual party which would be the dancing, so different areas would have dance moves, and maybe where the party happens. There would be no need for the actual music to change because the dj's are not in huge numbers, so there is not that much competition.

@IllmaticDelta listed the various types of music that condensed into bounce music...

If the DJ is well traveled then you don't even need a diverse crowd who needs catering to for various styles to blend.

I also think its wrong to say Bass comes from Planet Rock. White folks would say Planet Rock comes from Kraftwerk. Really, they all are similar because they all use the drum machine.

We giving Whodini credit for trap music while we at it? lol

 

[IllmaticDelta]

And I'm not talking about the 90's, I'm talking about the 80's

In NYC you had clubs for gay people, clubs for hip hop people, clubs for R&B, and Latin clubs. That's not even including the block parties which happened all over the city. All of this went back to the 70's.

Atlanta, and Miami, didn't have that. In fact going by what I heard in Miami, all they had(black people) were strip clubs,and small spots, and then luke built the pac jam which was the go to spot. New Orleans partied, but I doubt they had that as well.

Stop getting emotional, and comprehend what you're reading

there were definitely, disco/gay clubs clubs in florida in the 1970's

‘Saturday Night Fever’ at 40: Remember Palm Beach County’s discos, boogie nights?

 

[truth2you]

@IllmaticDelta listed the various types of music that condensed into bounce music...

If the DJ is well traveled then you don't even need a diverse crowd who needs catering to for various styles to blend.

I also think its wrong to say Bass comes from Planet Rock. White folks would say Planet Rock comes from Kraftwerk. Really, they all are similar because they all use the drum machine.

We giving Whodini credit for trap music while we at it? lol

IF a dj is well traveled, most aren't. I'm telling you as someone who was a dj who went different places. Plus, even the ones who were, still have to find a way to play the songs without getting booed. Most people aren't gonna automatically like a song because its new, you have to find ways to sneak it in.

And those white people would be right, but we are talking about black people, and some latins. If it weren't for "planet rock" most blacks, and latins, would have no idea who Kratwerk was!

They all use the drum machine, but that isn't the only reason, its because they use the same sounds, tempo, and drum pattern. "planet rock" came out in 1982, and right after that you started hearing music with that fast paced electric sound. I should say booty music, not miami bass, because that is kind ofdifferent.

Listen to the original Kratwerk, then listen to the songs that came after "planet rock", and see that is what bass music copied

 

[truth2you]

there were definitely, disco/gay clubs clubs in florida in the 1970's

‘Saturday Night Fever’ at 40: Remember Palm Beach County’s discos, boogie nights?

You took one part of my sentence, and ignored the rest.

I never wrote they didn't have gay clubs, I wrote "In NYC you had clubs for gay people, clubs for hip hop people, clubs for R&B, and Latin clubs. That's not even including the block parties which happened all over the city. All of this went back to the 70's."

The main point is it was all of these different clubs(FOR BLACKS, AND LATINS, MAINLY) and that is what helped cultivate the different sounds, and styles.

For example, the style of blending came from gay dj's at gay nightclubs, according to dj plummer. Also the style of using the eq in your mix came from them. Dj Plummer saw this an incorporated it into his style,. We still see edm dj's are the ones who are known for using the eq in their mixes hard, and that's because edm is an extension of disco which had a lot of gay djs.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

IF a dj is well traveled, most aren't. I'm telling you as someone who was a dj who went different places. Plus, even the ones who were, still have to find a way to play the songs without getting booed. Most people aren't gonna automatically like a song because its new, you have to find ways to sneak it in.

And those white people would be right, but we are talking about black people, and some latins. If it weren't for "planet rock" most blacks, and latins, would have no idea who Kratwerk was!

They all use the drum machine, but that isn't the only reason, its because they use the same sounds, tempo, and drum pattern. "planet rock" came out in 1982, and right after that you started hearing music with that fast paced electric sound. I should say booty music, not miami bass, because that is kind ofdifferent.

Listen to the original Kratwerk, then listen to the songs that came after "planet rock", and see that is what bass music copied

well, electro-funk is just that. A combination of kraftwerk style electro + funk


Jazzy Jay on "Planet Rock"

C: What was your creative input on “Planet Rock”?


“Planet Rock” was actually a routine we used to do with “Super Sperm,” “Trans-Europe express” by Kraftwerk and “Numbers” by Kraftwerk. We put the routine together and gave it to John Robie who did most of the programming and that later became “Planet Rock.”



J: What was Arthur Baker’s input?


Arthur Baker was like the conductor. He had less to do with our stuff than anybody but he took more of the credit and money. When you got a bunch of guys that’s not really involved with this business and you put them in a situation where they’re exposed to money, you think getting four thousand dollar checks is big money but you don’t realize he’s getting fifty, sixty, seventy thousand dollars.

JAZZY..........



which is ironic because kraftwerk were trying to make mechanical james brown syncopated funk

Kraftwerk were actually trying to imitate James brown/Funk through electronics

You mention how even though you loved black music it wasn't your sound. What's interesting is how, very early on, you were embraced by black America – or certain parts of the black American concert going public at least.

KB: "That happened not too long after my first encounter with Ralf and Florian. In 1975 we went over the Atlantic and spent 10 weeks on the road. We went from coast to coast and then to Canada. And all the black cities like Detroit or Chicago, they embraced us. It was good fun. In a way apparently they saw some sort of very strange comic figures in us I guess but also they didn't miss the beats. I was growing up with the funky beats of James Brown and I brought them in more and more. Not during Autobahn or Radioactivity but more and more during the late 70s. We took some black beats into our music and this was very attractive to the black musicians and the black audiences in the States. In a way probably it reminds me of what The Beatles did. They took some Chuck Berry tunes and they transferred it to our European culture before taking it back to America and everyone understood that. In a way that was probably what we did with black rhythm and blues. But we mixed it of course with our own identity of the electronic music approach and European melodies. And this was good enough to succeed in America.

The Quietus | Features | A Quietus Interview | Karl Bartos Interviewed: Kraftwerk And The Birth Of The Modern

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The influence of James Brown is something you’ve spoken about before, how did you manage to incorporate his rhythms into a style of music that was very different.

You just do it. Because if you do one thing for the first time, there are no footsteps in the snow. This was the funny thing, we had this idea of making in music the same thing as in animation pictures. You draw the whole world and you have the image of the world – but it all looks different, because it’s drawn. It’s not a photo of a duck – it’s a drawn duck. Or Mickey Mouse – it’s a drawn mouse. And then you have a tree, but it’s a drawn tree. And because of that you change from a realistic point of view into something else, which is a jotting of it, a concept of the world. It’s not real. And then you can explain things much better.

So, James Brown. If you use this artificial environment of synthetically generated sound, and you use the same off-beats taken from James Brown, it sounds familiar but different. It’s the same off-beat but somehow everything is changing, because it’s a new texture. But it’s the same timing [taps on the table], it’s the same rhythm. But it has changed, somehow it has this twisted thing. Tarantino. He gives us a very well-known character, but the hero now is a black guy: Django Unchained. So the main character is suddenly black, and it’s really cool because it gets a twist, and you can’t relate it to anything you’ve seen before. And that’s what we did. Through the different texture it got a twist.

In Simon Reynolds’ rave culture book Energy Flash, Carl Craig says, “Kraftwerk were so stiff, they were funky”…

We had the offbeat, and you have to know how to place offbeats and not exaggerate them. Sometimes, if people are really good drummers, they make so many offbeats they just wipe each other out. But if you have just one offbeat, and you repeat it every four bars, then it becomes so strong it becomes a formula. And I’m always after a certain formula that you can repeat in your mind. It’s just the right offbeat at the right time.

I think there’s an element of repetition in James Brown’s music that’s also relevant…

Johnny Marr told me this funny story. There was a new guitarist who wanted to be part of James Brown’s band, and the old guitarist said to him, “Hey guy, can you play this on the guitar? Bee-be-de…bee-be-de…bee-be-de…”. And the new guitarist says ‘Pffft, that’s easy’. And the guy says, ‘Yes, it’s easy, but can you play it for three hours?!’.

Interview: Karl Bartos - The Monitors

 

[truth2you]

well, electro-funk is just that. A combination of kraftwerk style electro + funk


Jazzy Jay on "Planet Rock"



JAZZY..........



which is ironic because kraftwerk were trying to make mechanical james brown syncopated funk

Kraftwerk were actually trying to imitate James brown/Funk through electronics




The Quietus | Features | A Quietus Interview | Karl Bartos Interviewed: Kraftwerk And The Birth Of The Modern

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.




Interview: Karl Bartos - The Monitors

And this helps prove my point, it was "planet rock" that spawned all the sounds we heard after that, it wasn't kraftwerk. It isn't just because a drum machine being used, its the sounds, rhythm and tempo.

 

[Poitier]

@truth2you you do realize the vast majority of AA musical genres and dance-oriented genres come from the South? How does this align with your theory?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

And this helps prove my point, it was "planet rock" that spawned all the sounds we heard after that, it wasn't kraftwerk. It isn't just because a drum machine being used, its the sounds, rhythm and tempo.

the styles most attached to planet rock is freestyle and electro from the West Coast like egyptian lover. Miami bass has some roots in electro-funk but with a change in the syncopations/bass + gogo music.

 

[truth2you]

@truth2you you do realize the vast majority of AA musical genres and dance-oriented genres come from the South? How does this align with your theory?

Of course I do, like I said I was a dj, and I produce, all I did was crate dig no matter where I went

We are talking about new styles that came in once technology changed things, and this was mainly in the early 70's-80's.

Also, the great migration was a big part of that partying going to the north, and I don't think its a coincidence that the new styles started around the tale end of the great migration to the north. The new technology, and migration, helped spawn the new styles, to me.