UpAndComing
Veteran
I'll leave this here
Mike Conley's father, Long jump and Triple jump Olympic champioin
Mike Conley's father, Long jump and Triple jump Olympic champioin
Whole NBA on Noah Lyles head rn
- Thread starter hood b. goode
- Start date
DoubleClutch
Superstar
I feel like torso/core are almost as important
Roger king
Superstar
I guess for some nba players the case is true but for others its not
Saysumthinfunnymike
VOTE!!!
Well.... he just reached 27.09 MPH in the 100M ... he had the slowest reaction time out of any runner but still won the race because of his top end speed and ability to hold that speed for a longer distance.
www.newsweek.com
How Noah Lyles won 100m Olympic title, according to data
Lyles managed to pick up a top speed of 27.09 mph and maintain his momentum as he approached the finish line.
www.newsweek.com
IIVI
Superstar
NFL players are more athletic than NBA players by far: higher vertical jumps,faster 40 times and waaaaaay stronger with the bench press. Some NBA players are 6'4 and can't bench press 185 lbs. x5 while some NFL players the same height are lifting 225 lbs. x30+ reps straight.
Track and field athletes are a level ahead of NFL players when it comes to speed and vertical jump, but overall NFL players got that insane strength. So they're equal on an explosiveness scale.
Then NBA.
NBA gets by because so many of them are tall af. I think only about 800,000 people in the world male and female are 6'8+, so you really don't have to be that much more athletic and skilled than that many more people once you meet the height requirement. Even fewer are 6'8+ and 20-23 years old (for the NBA Draft). I think they said something like 1/4 of the people who are 7' have played in the NBA. Plus so much of basketball is skill-based, slow ass players are dominating right now which should give you an idea of how much explosive athleticism really means compared to overall game.
However, you need to be athletic af if you want to dominate track and field's running and jumping sports. The sport is largely all about straight line speed and you can't finesse your way out of it. You're talking about the fastest group of people collected over four years.
This is one of the most fastest players the NBA has ever seen and look how bad he gets smoked at the start, which is largely about explosiveness (from 0 mph to high end speed):
D.K Metcalf who runs a 4.33 40-yard time, 40.5" vertical jump:
Now again, why I say NFL players are on the same level as Track and Field runners is you got to account for the fact that D.K Metcalf can put 400+ lbs. up on the bench press.
No NBA player is matching that.
Track and field athletes are a level ahead of NFL players when it comes to speed and vertical jump, but overall NFL players got that insane strength. So they're equal on an explosiveness scale.
Then NBA.
NBA gets by because so many of them are tall af. I think only about 800,000 people in the world male and female are 6'8+, so you really don't have to be that much more athletic and skilled than that many more people once you meet the height requirement. Even fewer are 6'8+ and 20-23 years old (for the NBA Draft). I think they said something like 1/4 of the people who are 7' have played in the NBA. Plus so much of basketball is skill-based, slow ass players are dominating right now which should give you an idea of how much explosive athleticism really means compared to overall game.
However, you need to be athletic af if you want to dominate track and field's running and jumping sports. The sport is largely all about straight line speed and you can't finesse your way out of it. You're talking about the fastest group of people collected over four years.
This is one of the most fastest players the NBA has ever seen and look how bad he gets smoked at the start, which is largely about explosiveness (from 0 mph to high end speed):
D.K Metcalf who runs a 4.33 40-yard time, 40.5" vertical jump:
Now again, why I say NFL players are on the same level as Track and Field runners is you got to account for the fact that D.K Metcalf can put 400+ lbs. up on the bench press.
No NBA player is matching that.
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IIVI
Superstar
It's a high jumper, but 5'11 and head-level with the rim...off one foot (3rd dunk):
Olympians are unreal to be honest, even compared to elite NBA athletes.
Olympians are unreal to be honest, even compared to elite NBA athletes.
Well.... he just reached 27.09 MPH in the 100M ... he had the slowest reaction time out of any runner but still won the race because of his top end speed and ability to hold that speed for a longer distance.
How Noah Lyles won 100m Olympic title, according to data
Lyles managed to pick up a top speed of 27.09 mph and maintain his momentum as he approached the finish line.
ashton eaton former gold medal decathlon
I don't have NFL over the NBA by far. What NBA players lack in strength, NFL players lack in endurance. Also, vertical jumps get skewed by PF/Centers. Relative to height/frame they would be largely the same.
To me most NBA guards and NFL skill position sans RB (QB/WR/TE/DB) are the same body type whereas one is asked to maximize their size and strength early vs the other maturing into it. The 6'4" guy doing 30 reps of 225 are linemen/edge rushers and outside of freaks of the elite edge guys a sub-4.5 40 and 40" vertical isn't happening at that size.
Easily SOME nba players, but that goes both ways. I grew up playing basketball, but I was fast, racing people in the street, etc. Didn't know anything about Track and Field until high school, when the coach saw me playing ball and told me I'd be good at it. So I could walk off the court and go to the track and do what they were doing, which was run and jump. Most people who grew up running track instead couldn't walk off the track onto the court and do what they were doing.
Both sports translate very well. An Anthony Edwards or Ja Morant can jump as high as him, but can't run as fast. He can run fast and jump high, but would probably clank a layup off the underside of the rim. But those are matters of technique and fine tuning.
Both sports translate very well. An Anthony Edwards or Ja Morant can jump as high as him, but can't run as fast. He can run fast and jump high, but would probably clank a layup off the underside of the rim. But those are matters of technique and fine tuning.
IIVI
Superstar
The original thread though we more pertaining to overall Explosive Index though as it was about about Noah Lyles flying from a standstill.
Even for the more massive players, NFL vertical jumps should also get skewered by Tackles/Guards/etc. who weight 300+ lbs., yet some of them can still fly with a 30"+ vertical jump. There are videos of linemen who are 6'0-6'3 out there windmill dunking at 300+ lbs. you can't tell me they're less explosive than an NBA player dunking at 6'0 170 lbs.
These are official combine measurements and not he said she said, sorted by vertical jump for OL.
Check how much some of those guys weigh and their heights for 35"+ verticals:
End of the day, from complete equilibrium, the total body force an NFL player and track athlete generate are just on a different level than an NBA player.
Most NFL WR's and Defensive Backs aren't pushing 30 reps on the bench press, but they are pushing 15-20 at 225 lbs.
Which additionally can be verified here, look at how many additionally have been able to bench press 225 lbs. over 20 times:
Now what does the average NBA 6' - 6'5 player push on the bench press, mind you, they're pushing 185 lbs? The most has ever been 27 reps.
There's a huge difference in strength when you compare the NFL and NBA top to bottom. They're not on the same level. Their body types are similar, but what's actually under the hood is different. Someone can have an "elite" physique but still not be insanely strong. Remember, lifting smaller weights for high reps will increase the size and tone of your physique by a lot, but it won't increase your max lift by much. A lot of NBA training is more calisthenics vs the pure raw lifting of weights done in the NFL.
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Vertical jumps are skewed by linemen, and those 30-40 guys jumping over 34" over a 20 year period are the freaks of that position in that test. But most don't, the same as guys once you get past 6'8".
Skill players are averaging somewhere between 34-36" in vertical jump, the same as PG-SG-SF positions. Let's not forget that filling out a 53 man roster versus 15 men produces more prospects to select as outliers.
The 300 pounder dunking is more impressive than the 170 pounder. Now tell him, or Jimmy Graham or Julius Peppers, to run around the for the duration of an NBA quarter.
I know WRs and DBs bench more than NBA guards, I've already said they train to maximize their size early because their sport falls for them to deliver or take direct hits. That's what's "under the hood". By body type I mean the baseline template, not the exact physique presented by eye test.
If you take a pair of 6'3" twin brothers who 4-star in each sport, the twin who chooses Michigan basketball will stay 190 because his training prioritizes endurance, while his brother who chooses the football program will eat and lift like his life depends on it to 215, because he has to deal with ~195~ pound kids with lower centers of mass trained to cave his chest in.
If neither goes pro for whatever reason, the hooper twin likely won't be playing at D1 intensity 3x a week, and can grow into a 205 guy who can workout with 225 in exchange for that endurance. Meanwhile receiver twin isn't lifting at a D1 level or eating an extra 1500 calories a day anymore, so he's flattened back down to 200 and is getting that same workout from 225 as his brother instead of putting it up 20 times.
Could I give the edge to the NFL? Sure...but it's not "by far". NBA players are asked to show a bit of everything. They aren't NFL strong, but they are stronger than many other sports. They aren't sprinter/NFL explosive, but they are explosive, and while they don't have Premier League endurance, they definitely have to show more of it than a 100M race or a bubble screen play. They probably don't have MLB hand-eye coordination, but it's up there. Reaction times and reflexes being tested for minutes at a time.
Strength and power is part of the athleticism equation but that alone, especially used in 1-5 second bursts doesn't blow out the totality of what athleticism is. If that's the case freestyle wrestlers are "more athletic" than football players since they're essentially fighting at the line of scrimmage and then some for minutes at a time and not 3 seconds.
IIVI
Superstar
I just posted the average NFL linemen ad a vertical of 28", that's for 300 lbs. The average NBA vertical jump is 28", which includes people under 200 lbs.
Nonetheless though, remember we're talking pure Explosive Index originally: Bench press, Broad Jump, Vertical Jump, 40-time.
When you take those factors into consideration, it's not close. Explosive Index actually a metric used during the draft process, NBA players would not fair well:
Breaking Down The Pat Kirwan NFL Combine Explosive Rating
Let me start this post off by saying that I am a huge fan of Pat Kirwan. For those that do not know it, he is the co-host of the show Movin\’ The Chains on SiriusXM NFL Radio. Before his radio gig, Kirwan spent eight years with the New York Jets, beginning as a defensive […]
steelersdepot.com
it's just basically a rating scale used to mention overall burst. Usain Bolt for example would probably wreck that rating considering his bench press also goes well into the 300's (by his own claim) and says a lot of T&F sprinters can bench press way more than that.
Maybe I should not have been more specific that I was referring to pure peak explosive burst rather than overall athleticism
They are elite athletes for sure, but when it comes to generating instantaneous full-body force at their weight, I don't think anybody is touching the NFL or elite Olympic athletes.
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