Whole Foods' Co-Founder John Mackey: "Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism"

[wheywhey]

Intellectuals do have a problem when wealthy businessmen attempt to control areas that they have no expertise in: education and medicine/healthcare. However, many intellectuals are willing to sell out: charter schools, university research grants, and endowed chairs/departments funded by corporations.

Despite the book title, John Mackey isn't talking about intellectuals He is talking about politicians and a large segment of the public who want regulations that aren't totally business friendly.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

A good amount of intellectuals hate capitalism because of how they perceive the basic nature of man. They believe that man can overcome self-interest and be immune to the influence of power, and that the current systemic processes/institutions(constraints) that happen to be in place, at the moment, is at fault. Remove those constraints(Ex. free market economy) and man could begin his moral development and reach some form of moral perfectible.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

You would think this guy would be some hippy but @DEAD7 would love this guy.

 

[JahFocus CS]

They won't get a single dollar of mine moving forward.

 

[DEAD7]

I absolutely hate the common refrain from the far right that "crony capitalism isn't capitalism."

It's just a dishonest statement. All capitalistic societies become crony capitalistic invariably. Capital interests seek to dominate and shape any state and its policies. Free markets are mythical. Capitalism is based on self advancement. It is the entire philosophy. To argue that it's ever possible to convince the people who been conditioned that theirs is the end all be all to not try to shape a market in their favor is fukking retarded.

Wages are determined through productivity, which is why american(a very market based society) wages have been stagnant for 40 years despite unprecedented gains in productivity. I'm sure somehow that is the fault of not real capitalism.

If the business lobby wouldn't make universal healthcare an impossible subject to discuss seriously they wouldn't have to pay their employees' health insurance.

Believe people who are wired to be selfish will stop being selfish once they hit a certain point of success brehs

Same goes for 'worker owned means of production' friend.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Same goes for 'worker owned means of production' friend.

Yeah, thanks to the cops and military, state force protecting the interests of capital

 

[tmonster]

A good amount of intellectuals hate capitalism because of how they perceive the basic nature of man. They believe that man can overcome self-interest and be immune to the influence of power, and that the current systemic processes/institutions(constraints) that happen to be in place, at the moment, is at fault. Remove those constraints(Ex. free market economy) and man could begin his moral development and reach some form of moral perfectibility.

I believe that your argument is internally inconsistent
I think I can prove it if you can answer this question
The "intellectuals" you speak of, what kind of economic system do you theoretically believe they would prefer over capitalism?

 

[DEAD7]

Yeah, thanks to the cops and military, state force protecting the interests of capital

"All capitalistic societies become crony capitalistic invariably."


All socialist societies give way to capital invariably.






We should be discussing where we can meet in the middle.

 

[King Kreole]

I believe that your argument in internally inconsistent
I think I can prove it if you can answer this question
The "intellectuals" you speak of, what kind of economic system do you theoretically believe they would prefer over capitalism?

Not to speak for the man, but the "intellectuals" I've spoken to who espouse this idea usually start rhapsodizing about some amorphous, mixed bag, politico-economic system that somehow avoids the pitfalls that every communist regime has succumbed to, whilst allowing for the levels of growth and prosperity that comes from capitalist systems. They still refuse to accept greed as an immutable element of human psychology, and pine for a communitarian world where the poor are magically lifted up using voodoo economics (many have used the line "Businesses will still produce at the same level!" ), but they don't want to give up their iPhones or Nikes or Whole Foods either.

 

[DEAD7]

 

[JahFocus CS]

"All capitalistic societies become crony capitalistic invariably."


All socialist societies give way to capital invariably.






We should be discussing where we can meet in the middle.

The tendency for the type of capitalism dreamed of by the petit bourgeoisie to give way to "crony capitalism" is built into the system. The only way for the petit bourgeoisie's vision of capitalism to be realized is to massively decentralize and deindustrialize society into something resembling early 19th century America. And even that was predicated upon ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism, as well as slave labor.

You don't have nearly enough cases to use as evidence to say "all socialist societies give way to capital invariably." The fight for socialism is a global fight. Socialism in one country is not possible. And the first successful revolution that came anywhere close to being in the interests of the working class was less than 100 years ago (the Russian Revolution). But we got nikkas talking about "invariably"

"'Freeman and slave, patrician and plebian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes."

So, no, we should not be discussing where we can meet in the middle. We need to be discussing how to solve the problem once and for all, to move past this fukkery and toward a liberated future.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

I believe that your argument in internally inconsistent
I think I can prove it if you can answer this question
The "intellectuals" you speak of, what kind of economic system do you theoretically believe they would prefer over capitalism?

Some sort of system/society were property and owner ship is removed. A society that would pass Rousseau's criteria for what is needed so the nature of man won't be corrupted, and he can be free to reach his potential.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You say it's honest and say he's being dishonest by misrepresenting other people's arguments, I think he's spot on, maybe the problem is that he's being too honest about what capitalism is and people arguing against his stance aren't being totally honest because they're being too politically correct, afraid to be called socialists or communists.

This guy is an unapologetic capitalist, people against capitalism should be unapologetic about their anti capitalist views and then an honest conversation can happen. Same thing with racism, almost no one wants to admit being racist so an honest conversation about race on a large scale is highly improbable.

He isn't being fair to the argument anyone he disagrees with though. Thats not just being unapologetic.

I've got nothing wrong with capitalism, but lets keep it a buck here. Dude outright lied about some of other peoples views.

 

[Colilluminati]

HE SAID HE WOULD PAY SOMEONE 10 CENTS A HOUR

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I don't think it's necessarily dishonest, it's just an attempt to separate theory from precedent, same as when people on the far left try to claim that Communism won't inevitably devolve into Maoist/Stalinist style fascism. Of course capitalism isn't a perfect system, but one can promote purity of an ideology while admitting the shortcomings of its implementation and seeking to resolve them.

As for your other points, capitalism's acknowledgment of greed as a fundamental element of human nature is what makes it a great system. Whereas Communism tries to ignore/overcome greed in their belief of the perfectibility of humanity, Capitalism seeks to harness it in the most efficient/productive manner. Modern capitalism is a success story breh. Selfishness in a system of capitalism results in innovation and growth. Selfishness in a system of communism results in bureaucratic nightmares and black markets. Believe that people at large can be selfless brehs.