My best year, I averaged 19.5 ppg, I know I could crack 22 ppg on a bad team if I played today
Which nba star from the 90s or early 2000s do you think would be average in today's game?
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My best year, I averaged 19.5 ppg, I know I could crack 22 ppg on a bad team if I played today
TaxCollector13459
2018 Coli Rookie of the Year
TaxCollector13459
2018 Coli Rookie of the Year
He's a fukking midget that's why.
You mean to tell me a 40 inch vert is the only barrier to Mark Price or John Stockton having similar levels of success?
That just sounds stupid.
Jesus Is Lord
Give Thanks, Repent, and Forgive
Did he just compare Drexler and Wiggins?Come on
Their games aren’t alike.
TaxCollector13459
2018 Coli Rookie of the Year
that has nothing to do with you stating he dont have hops though. It was a completely untrue statement... I.T., Nate, Kay Felder are all athletically talented and gifted, shorter players ..Thats not really a debate.
as far as success goes, even tall nikkas washout. Some nikkas are 6'7, and will never average over 9, he dropped 28.
the game is 85% mental, 15% physical.
I didn't state he didn't have hops, I didn't even see the hops part of the argument because I was blinded by all of the dumb shyt I'm reading.
His hops didn't really dictate whether he could eat or not. If him and JJ barea to a lesser extent can have successful careers there would be no stopping ATG guards like Stockton or Gary Payton of all people from being much more than "average".
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I can’t imagine turning on Undisputed or 1st take and a topic is “who is the best pg heading the 2021 season” Is it Stockton or Steph Curry?
Stock was most def built for his time. Zeke used to destroy him. Now imagine 20+ teams with explosive scoring guards. Dude would be a slightly better TJ McConnell.
Stock was most def built for his time. Zeke used to destroy him. Now imagine 20+ teams with explosive scoring guards. Dude would be a slightly better TJ McConnell.
Stockton was a master of the pick n roll, could shoot the 3, handle, had elite court vision, and was pretty tough/durable for a scrawny lookin cac.
T.J. McConnell still making bread outchea, Stockton would eat in today’s league.
Mark Price was an elite shooter & use to pull up off the dribble he’d eat too
T.J. McConnell still making bread outchea, Stockton would eat in today’s league.
Mark Price was an elite shooter & use to pull up off the dribble he’d eat too
TaxCollector13459
2018 Coli Rookie of the Year
I thought it was you who said, he didnt have hops, my error then, sorry.
but yeah,
they (vert) did though my brother. thats why that hip injury derailed him so bad. his speed, lateral, was gone.
good points though fam
murksiderock
Superstar
Vince Carter is clearly one of the most overrated players of all time...
Let's start with this, people talk about him as if he was a superstar, and for a full third (⅓ for you mathematically challenged muhfukkas out there); for a full third of his career, he hasn't even been a starter...
Give me another "superstar" from any era in NBA history who spent ⅓ of his career coming off the bench? I got time, I'll wait...
His last three years that he started (2009-2012, or Year 12 thru Year 14), he scored less than his career average of 17.2---->Years 13 and 14, he didn't even average more than 14 points points per game...
Now, someone might make an argument that Vince is a holdover from earlier eras where most stars were washed by Year 12 to 13. Okay, that would be a decent argument, if not for the fact that his primary era (the 2000s) also included guys like Pierce, Dirk, Kobe, Garnett, Parker, Duncan, etc...
Remember, you guys say Vince Carter was a superstar. A number of the big name guys of his era were more effective players down the stretch in their careers. Why was he washed in Year 12, certainly by Year 13 it was a wrap?
From Years 12 thru 14, the following guys averages: Kobe (27.4); Dirk (23.4); Garnett (19.3); Pierce (18.8); Parker (17.1); Duncan (16.9)...........Carter (13.8)...
So for 33% of his career, or 7 of his 21 seasons, he's come off the bench. His last two seasons as a starter he couldn't crack more than 14.0ppg, so for 9 of his 21 seasons (that's 42.8% of his career), he's been completely washed...
Find me another "superstar" from any era who spent 42% of their career as average rotation piece to washed bench guy? I got time, I'll wait...
But the biggest reason Vince is overrated is he wasn't much of an impact player in his prime. He was Hollow Man, game built off of athleticism and wow plays, but he didn't make his teammates better and he never did anything of significance outside of winning a dunk contest in Year 3...
He missed the playoffs in 3 of his 6 years in Toronto, getting bounced in the 1st Round twice. That was his ceiling as a #1...
murksiderock
Superstar
Vince Carter went to New Jersey to ride the wave of a team that went to two Finals and proceeded to repeat his Toronto performance, missing the playoffs entirely in 2 of his 5 years in MJ, and getting bounced in the Semis twice, Rd 1 once...
Being really generous to Vince, and calling his first 11 years his prime (1998-2009), he only finished Top 20 in MVP voting three times and never higher than 10th. The irony here is today and throughout the last 8-10 years we've grossly overrated dude, but in real time in his era, he was rated correctly. He's not even a Top 20 player of his primary era, and in real time, while we all knew Vince was good, it was evident he wasn't as good as a number of wings in his day....
He was exciting and a stat stuffer but not an impact player:
•in 2007, Vince was in Year 9, which is the middle of the prime of great players. He was thoroughly outplayed in the Semis by a Year 4 LeBron James, who was nowhere near as good as he would become. Vince played 42mpg in that series and shot 35% from the floor and 27% from 3...
•that was just Vince being Vince, though. A year prior (Year 8), he actually went out swinging but was still outplayed by a Year 3 Dwyane Wade, who wasn't as good as he would become. Another Rd 2 exit...
•wait a minute, it gets worse. In Year 7 (2005), Vince was outplayed by Wade for the first time, Year 2 Wade, in a R1 sweep while shooting just 36.5% from the field...
It gets worse for dude, but I'll end it on this...
If you're wondering why I'm focused on his scoring output, it's because that was what his game was. He was never a great facilitator; he was a good shooter in his prime, but not a sharpshooter; he was an average defender at best; on and on. His primary skill was that he was an above average scorer with elite athleticism...
Tell me guy today that you know who is touted as a "superstar" and never made a conference final, who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? Dont even try to use the T-Mac comparison, because whereas Vince was an above average scorer, Mac was a truly elite scorer with a dizzying offensive output...
This guy Vince Carter at his best was a borderline Top 10 player (mostly in that 15 range), and is not one of the Top 20 players of his generation, he barely makes the Top 25. He was a fan favorite and those of us old enough to remembered marveled over his athleticism, but the fact is Vince didn't bring anything else to the game of substance. You guys let nostalgia and emotion cloud your judgement far too often...
Basketball Hall is a well known turnstile that let's many an average player in, but Vince for sure is gonna be one of the more overrated and egregious players to make it...
Being really generous to Vince, and calling his first 11 years his prime (1998-2009), he only finished Top 20 in MVP voting three times and never higher than 10th. The irony here is today and throughout the last 8-10 years we've grossly overrated dude, but in real time in his era, he was rated correctly. He's not even a Top 20 player of his primary era, and in real time, while we all knew Vince was good, it was evident he wasn't as good as a number of wings in his day....
He was exciting and a stat stuffer but not an impact player:
•in 2007, Vince was in Year 9, which is the middle of the prime of great players. He was thoroughly outplayed in the Semis by a Year 4 LeBron James, who was nowhere near as good as he would become. Vince played 42mpg in that series and shot 35% from the floor and 27% from 3...
•that was just Vince being Vince, though. A year prior (Year 8), he actually went out swinging but was still outplayed by a Year 3 Dwyane Wade, who wasn't as good as he would become. Another Rd 2 exit...
•wait a minute, it gets worse. In Year 7 (2005), Vince was outplayed by Wade for the first time, Year 2 Wade, in a R1 sweep while shooting just 36.5% from the field...
It gets worse for dude, but I'll end it on this...
If you're wondering why I'm focused on his scoring output, it's because that was what his game was. He was never a great facilitator; he was a good shooter in his prime, but not a sharpshooter; he was an average defender at best; on and on. His primary skill was that he was an above average scorer with elite athleticism...
Tell me guy today that you know who is touted as a "superstar" and never made a conference final, who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? Dont even try to use the T-Mac comparison, because whereas Vince was an above average scorer, Mac was a truly elite scorer with a dizzying offensive output...
This guy Vince Carter at his best was a borderline Top 10 player (mostly in that 15 range), and is not one of the Top 20 players of his generation, he barely makes the Top 25. He was a fan favorite and those of us old enough to remembered marveled over his athleticism, but the fact is Vince didn't bring anything else to the game of substance. You guys let nostalgia and emotion cloud your judgement far too often...
Basketball Hall is a well known turnstile that let's many an average player in, but Vince for sure is gonna be one of the more overrated and egregious players to make it...
It's obvious some of y'all never seen a lot of these dudes ply, and are just throwing out names. I'm not even gonna get to the elite, but someone named Mark Price. Mark Price was the master of splitting the double and shooting right off-bat, or throwing up that floater. And he could finish with either hand. He'd go right through these soft help-switches and feast. someone named DC. DC played 3-4 & 5, could handle the ball post-up and shoot...even 3s. DC was just lazy and an alkie. He'd have a field day.
someone said Rodman. First off, Rodman was king at boxing out and hella athletic, quick, and long. This is a league with no bigs, and no rebounding bigs. He'd snag everything.
People really said Glide, like he wasn't quick and strong, didn't avg 6 & 6, and could always get to the rim...no matter how right-hand-heavy and often he dribbled with his head down. Patrick Ewing is probably the best jump-shooting C. Someone said Chuck, like Randle & Zion aren't Dollar Tree versions of him. No need to even say anything about Bird.
Those greats player through 2+ eras. They played through 80's pace, 80's physicality, 90's grind and 90's athleticism, but y'all think today's just shoot 3s and no one-on-one defense can stop them?
someone said Rodman. First off, Rodman was king at boxing out and hella athletic, quick, and long. This is a league with no bigs, and no rebounding bigs. He'd snag everything.
People really said Glide, like he wasn't quick and strong, didn't avg 6 & 6, and could always get to the rim...no matter how right-hand-heavy and often he dribbled with his head down. Patrick Ewing is probably the best jump-shooting C. Someone said Chuck, like Randle & Zion aren't Dollar Tree versions of him. No need to even say anything about Bird.
Those greats player through 2+ eras. They played through 80's pace, 80's physicality, 90's grind and 90's athleticism, but y'all think today's just shoot 3s and no one-on-one defense can stop them?