When Will Houses Go Back To Fukkin Normal Prices????

EndDomination

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If there is another market collapse, prices will drop - but not as rapidly as need be.

Speculation is driving things up, a massive amount, perhaps even the majority of wealth here, is concentrated in real estate - just because the masses are priced out isn’t enough for a ceiling.
 

Conan

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Bro
It’s also about culture & ownership

How is renting not a cash cow when you keep paying but never towards ownership?
It’s perpetual payments, ownership is not, how is that not case closed?

Stocks is risky, homes are not.
Also when you die you can leave the house for the kids.

A condo with more than one floor is gonna for sure way worse than a home with 2 floors AND a basement so 3 floors.

First of all, giving you rep so I can get closer to being able to neg that faggit @CrimsonTider again

Second, my post is not anti-home ownership. It's anti- the idea of "buy or die". There are multiple paths to wealth. And pressuring people into home ownership leads to many situations where people are house poor or lose their homes or have their entire wealth tied up in their home, which is useless until you sell the home. But home ownership can be a good thing under the right circumstances.

Now let me address several points you brought up:

1. If culture and ownership are important to you, then you can prioritize buying a home, that is fine. It doesn't mean you should be irrational about home ownership when it comes to the numbers. Not everyone cares about culture and "ownership". For me it isn't about owning a home, it's about net worth at the end of the day.

2. You will always pay money on a home. Property tax, maintenance, repairs... Try defaulting on your tax and see what happens to the house you own. Now you may say, "well once I pay off my mortgage, my cost of housing will decrease compared to renting". That is true to an extent (property taxes continue to rise). But that ignores what you spent (in terms of down payment opportunity cost and mortgage interest that you can't get back) that could have been "better" spent elsewhere

3. You can leave a lot of stuff for the kids. You can leave a house; you can also leave cash. A lot of kids are already ahead because they have trust funds that allow them to buy homes or start businesses or subsidize low income lifestyles. No wrong answer, but I'd rather leave cash. I wish I had cash left behind for me instead of a house.

4. Historical returns on the broad based market have outpaced home value appreciation as far back as time can remember. With less risk too, because when I buy an index fund I'm diversifying and reducing the chances a single event ruins me. With a single home, I'm screwed if something happens to my house.

I'm personally not crazy on owning in the US. I may pull the trigger if circumstances change. But at that time, I'd rather pay cash. That eliminates throwing money away on interest. Plus, I would lean towards a property I could rent portions of out, so it's an asset that generates cash. But to each their own.
 

Iceson Beckford

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Don't stretch your pockets. Don't get a $600k mortgage if the $4000/month payment is going to be a struggle every month. Find a $150k house in bumfukk Idaho and live there. It's a house still. That extra money, put it in your 401k and brokerage account and buy index funds. Your net worth in 30 years will thank you

I don’t even disagree (actually strongly agree) but when people say stuff like this they forget the obvious psychology…

You can’t live in your stock portfolio. Having a paid off mortgage or heavily paid down one brings security that other investments can’t because of the necessity of shelter. Plus it’s tangible.

To the majority of people, stocks are some crazy complex thing that you have to be a genius to understand.

Making housing an speculative asset genuinely causes so many issues :snoop:
 

getmoney310cpt

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families in California getting 6-15k mortgages on homes being bought out here, in my mind im thinking for 30 years you can keep that up? With divorce, job layoffs, kids/college, etc only works if your current money making thing is a sure thing...why I think there could be a crash one day but I could be wrong
 

Forsaken

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families in California getting 6-15k mortgages on homes being bought out here, in my mind im thinking for 30 years you can keep that up? With divorce, job layoffs, kids/college, etc only works if your current money making thing is a sure thing...why I think there could be a crash one day but I could be wrong
That's the hustle. Anything can happen in 30 yrs.

Prices will come down on homes.
 

AAKing23

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families in California getting 6-15k mortgages on homes being bought out here, in my mind im thinking for 30 years you can keep that up? With divorce, job layoffs, kids/college, etc only works if your current money making thing is a sure thing...why I think there could be a crash one day but I could be wrong
AI and automation is gonna throw a wrench into a lot of people's plans and impact our economy hard, outside of a few industries nobody is safe, people should be trying to keep as low of an overhead as they can although we know that ain't happening:francis:
 

Conan

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I don’t even disagree (actually strongly agree) but when people say stuff like this they forget the obvious psychology…

You can’t live in your stock portfolio. Having a paid off mortgage or heavily paid down one brings security that other investments can’t because of the necessity of shelter. Plus it’s tangible.

To the majority of people, stocks are some crazy complex thing that you have to be a genius to understand.

Making housing an speculative asset genuinely causes so many issues :snoop:

You right, there is psychology involved here. And a lot of this conversation simply boils down to that. If that need of security around housing is important to you, fukk what I'm saying. All I'd say is don't overspend, and otherwise more grease to your elbow.

I really wish people understood stocks better. Not the scammers trying to sell bullshyt on IG. Just basic boring low cost index fund investing that'll set you up for life (and your seeds if you invest enough)
 

CrimsonTider

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First of all, giving you rep so I can get closer to being able to neg that faggit @CrimsonTider again

Second, my post is not anti-home ownership. It's anti- the idea of "buy or die". There are multiple paths to wealth. And pressuring people into home ownership leads to many situations where people are house poor or lose their homes or have their entire wealth tied up in their home, which is useless until you sell the home. But home ownership can be a good thing under the right circumstances.

Now let me address several points you brought up:

1. If culture and ownership are important to you, then you can prioritize buying a home, that is fine. It doesn't mean you should be irrational about home ownership when it comes to the numbers. Not everyone cares about culture and "ownership". For me it isn't about owning a home, it's about net worth at the end of the day.

2. You will always pay money on a home. Property tax, maintenance, repairs... Try defaulting on your tax and see what happens to the house you own. Now you may say, "well once I pay off my mortgage, my cost of housing will decrease compared to renting". That is true to an extent (property taxes continue to rise). But that ignores what you spent (in terms of down payment opportunity cost and mortgage interest that you can't get back) that could have been "better" spent elsewhere

3. You can leave a lot of stuff for the kids. You can leave a house; you can also leave cash. A lot of kids are already ahead because they have trust funds that allow them to buy homes or start businesses or subsidize low income lifestyles. No wrong answer, but I'd rather leave cash. I wish I had cash left behind for me instead of a house.

4. Historical returns on the broad based market have outpaced home value appreciation as far back as time can remember. With less risk too, because when I buy an index fund I'm diversifying and reducing the chances a single event ruins me. With a single home, I'm screwed if something happens to my house.

I'm personally not crazy on owning in the US. I may pull the trigger if circumstances change. But at that time, I'd rather pay cash. That eliminates throwing money away on interest. Plus, I would lean towards a property I could rent portions of out, so it's an asset that generates cash. But to each their own.
Just yapping
 

ogc163

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The income needed to comfortably afford a home is up 80% since 2020, while median income has risen 23% in that time.

Home shoppers today need to make more than $106,000 to comfortably afford a home. That is 80% more than in January 2020, showing how the math has changed for hopeful buyers, who are more often partnering with friends and family or “house hacking” their way to homeownership.

Housing costs have soared over the past four years

A monthly mortgage payment on a typical U.S. home has nearly doubled since January 2020, up 96.4% to $2,188 (assuming a 10% down payment).

Home values have risen 42.4% in that time, with the typical U.S. home now worth about $343,000. Mortgage rates ended January 2020 near 3.5%, keeping the cost of a home affordable for most households that could manage the down payment. At the time of this analysis, mortgage rates were about 6.6%.

Wages have not kept up

In 2020, a household earning $59,000 annually could comfortably afford the monthly mortgage on a typical U.S. home, spending no more than 30% of its income with a 10% down payment. That was below the U.S. median income of about $66,000, meaning more than half of American households had the financial means to afford homeownership.

Now, the roughly $106,500 needed to comfortably afford the mortgage payment on a typical home is well above what a typical U.S. household earns each year, estimated at about $81,000.

Buyers are teaming up, “house hacking,” and moving to more affordable areas

For a household making the median income, it would take almost 8.5 years before they would have enough saved to put 10% down on a typical U.S. home, about a year longer than it would have in 2020. It’s no wonder, then, that half of first-time buyers say at least part of their down payment came from a gift or loan from family or friends.

With the cost of a mortgage rising, most millennial and Gen Z buyers say the ability to rent out all or part of a home for extra cash is very or extremely important. Cobuying with a friend or relative is another way to help with affordability, something 21% of last year’s buyers reported doing. Long-distance movers are also targeting less expensive and less competitive metros.

Where a home is most and least affordable

Metro areas where a buyer could comfortably afford a typical home with the lowest income are Pittsburgh ($58,232 income needed to afford a home), Memphis ($69,976), Cleveland ($70,810), New Orleans ($74,048) and Birmingham ($74,338). The only major metros where a typical home is affordable to a household making the median income are Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Detroit.

There are seven markets among major metros where a household’s income must be $200,000 or more to comfortably afford a typical home. The top four are in California: San Jose ($454,296), San Francisco ($339,864), Los Angeles ($279,250) and San Diego ($273,613). Seattle ($213,984), the New York City metro area ($213,615) and Boston ($205,253) complete the list.

2024_Income-needed-to-afford-a-mortgage_022824-1024x576.png


Methodology

Quarterly median household income is taken from the American Community Survey (ACS) and Moody’s Analytics through 2022. Present-day estimates use quarterly changes in the Employment Cost Index provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) to chain ACS income to the current day.

Years to save for a 10% down payment is the number of years it would take the median household to save for a 10% down payment on a typical home in their metro, assuming a 5% annual savings rate.

Income needed to afford a home with 10% down is defined as the income needed to afford the total monthly payment on the typical home. The total monthly payment is based on the monthly mortgage payment, insurance, property taxes, and annual maintenance costs of the home.

 
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