When have it became cool to Not believe in Jesus.(bible prophecy)

dj-method-x

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No, it isn't. If you feel otherwise and can prove it, you can win $1,000...........

The Zeitgeist Challenge | Refutations, Links, Videos and More

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I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, I'm just saying Jesus historicity is definitely not an open and shut case like a lot of people think. All of the evidence used to justify that Jesus actually existed from Josephus, to Pliny, and Tacticus can be refuted.

Here's what a few other scholars have to say about Tacticus references on Jesus. I am aware that most scholars seem to think Jesus existed, but the truth is NOT democratic:

Although the majority of scholars consider it to be genuine, a few scholars question the authenticity of the passage given that Tacitus was born 25 years after Jesus' death.[42]

Some scholars have debated the historical value of the passage given that Tacitus does not reveal the source of his information.[58] Gerd Theissen and Annette Merz argue that Tacitus at times had drawn on earlier historical works now lost to us, and he may have used official sources from a Roman archive in this case; however, if Tacitus had been copying from an official source, some scholars would expect him to have labeled Pilate correctly as a prefectrather than a procurator.[59] Theissen and Merz state that Tacitus gives us a description of widespread prejudices about Christianity and a few precise details about "Christus" and Christianity, the source of which remains unclear.[60] However, Paul R. Eddy has stated that given his position as a senator Tacitus was also likely to have had access to official Roman documents of the time and did not need other sources.[25]

Michael Martin notes that the authenticity of this passage of the Annals has also been disputed on the grounds that Tacitus would not have used the word “messiah” in an authentic Roman document.[61]

Weaver notes that Tacitus spoke of the persecution of Christians, but no other Christian author wrote of this persecution for a hundred years.[62]

Hotema notes that this passage was not quoted by any Church father up to the 15th century, although the passage would have been very useful to them in their work;[63] and that the passage refers to the Christians in Rome being a multitude, while at that time the Christian congregation in Rome would actually have been very small.[63]

Scholars have also debated the issue of hearsay in the reference by Tacitus. Charles Guignebert argued that "So long as there is that possibility [that Tacitus is merely echoing what Christians themselves were saying], the passage remains quite worthless".[64] R. T. France states that the Tacitus passage is at best just Tacitus repeating what he had heard through Christians.[65] However, Paul R. Eddy has stated that as Rome's preeminent historian, Tacitus was generally known for checking his sources and was not in the habit of reporting gossip.[25] Tacitus was a member of the Quindecimviri sacris faciundis, a council of priests whose duty it was to supervise foreign religious cults in Rome, which as Van Voorst points out, makes it reasonable to suppose that he would have acquired knowledge of Christian origins through his work with that body.[66]
 

Anwulika

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Nope I have read the Bible many times... has some good parables but that's it...

But have you read the whole Bible- from start to finish. The Bible is like any other book; you have to read all of it to gain a true understanding of it.
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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dj-method-x said:
I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, I'm just saying Jesus historicity is definitely not an open and shut case like a lot of people think. All of the evidence used to justify that Jesus actually existed from Josephus, to Pliny, and Tacticus can be refuted.

Bruh, just go to the site I linked and prove your case.​
 

Nicca I Said Wit CHEESE

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No reason to get into semantics. This derails people. What i mean by that is this. whatever i tell you about your questions. it wont change the baseline facts of the book and core values. which is simple. Believe in Christ/God, Believe he came and died and is still advocating on your behalf for all the sins you have committed and will commit until the day you die.
If you do that, the other stuff is really semantics. even folks that believe in those things are not always together on if its a Triune god/Trinity, or some other setup. But that doesnt change the baseline/core values. So never get stuck on that other stuff. you're asking the wrong questions. The only people that can play that game are bible scholars who are already believers and just want to dive a bit deeper. and even then, dont argue about it. BUILD.

and now to MY theory about God is everything. Remember I aint God. these are not the words of the bible. but from what i personally gather, I BELIEVE. again. ME rapbeats, Believes. so dont go preaching this as gospel or "well this christian i know said X, so blah blah." you asked so i'm answering you on a man to man level.

My personal opinion on God is everything is scientific as well as spiritual.

scientifically speaking i think he's all things energy. he is thee true source of all energy in a physical sense. in a spiritual sense he's the source of all power. last but not least. if you ever build a computer program from scratch(mobile app, video game, anything). you become God of that app, game. you decide the rules, you decide how things are defined. no matter what the stuff on the app wants to say, the rules are the rules you made. it is what it is. and there's no way to change those rules within the app. the only person/being that can change that is the person/being that created the app. so when we attempt to work in ways we were not created, i believe we break and dont work properly. call it an error. not a coding error. an error due to a lack of consistent energy.

a lot of computer errors come from electronic components, that at times dont produce a steady enough signal. this means when it sends out those 0's and 1's. 001110100111...if there's a switch in power to much or to little. here comes a glitch. that last thing cant be read, the cpu doesnt know if its a zero or a one. so error occurs. even with solid coding.

i think this is Us as humans. God is the energy source spiritually and physically. the further away you are from God, the more chance of you glitching out and having errors. Dont blame the error on the coder. thats on you going to far away from the power source. get back with the power source so you can have that consistent power. the sin is us is our desire to not want to use said power source. we are torn between always wanted to know What power source made us, but we are always so smart that we want to say i dont need a power source for my life.

you're not going to get much appreciation for this post on this particular website, but that was one of the most well put together rationalizations on this issue I've ever read. Peace to you brother
 
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No, but you do.​



Your first post was a string of smileys indicating your disdain of the subject which is demonstrative of you being a c00n since 80% of atheists are 'White'.

Bye.​
This is how I know you're too far gone.

Atheism isn't behind the same bars as White supremacy - take a look at what this country was built on and how religion was used against our ancestors and maybe one day you'll see the light.
 

serial

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It's Ye'shua (if anyone hasn't responded to this).

I'm aware of that but are most Christians?? Also why not call him by his proper name rather than his nickname??

Also I would like someone to explain why the story of horus is similar to jesus and predates jesus birth?
 

Nicca I Said Wit CHEESE

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I'm aware of that but are most Christians?? Also why not call him by his proper name rather than his nickname??

Also I would like someone to explain why the story of horus is similar to jesus and predates jesus birth?

God has literally dozens of names he's addressed by within the bible. Yeshua/Jesus is just semantics, one the original hebrew name and the other not. That's it. As far as the horus-Jesus connection lie....

Written in 1280 BC, theBook of the Deaddescribes a God, Horus.
In fact, there are many “books of the dead.” But there is no single, officialBook of the Dead. The books are collections of ancient Egyptian spells that were believed to help the deceased on their journey to the afterlife. The titleBook of the Deadcomes from an Arabic label referring to the fact that the books were mostly found with mummies (cf.The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Funerary Literature”). Some of these texts contain vignettes depicting the god Horus, but they don’t tell us much about him.

Our information about Horus comes from a variety of archaeological sources. What we do know from the most recent scholarship on the subject is that there were many variations of the story, each of them popularized at different times and places throughout the 5,000-year span of ancient Egyptian history. Egyptologists recognize the possibility that these differences may have been understood as aspects or facets of the same divine persona, but they nevertheless refer to them as distinct Horus-gods (cf.The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Horus”).

Part of the problem with the “Jesus is Horus” claim is that in order to find items that even partially fit the life story of Jesus, advocates of the view must cherry-pick bits of myth from different epochs of Egyptian history. This is possible today because modern archaeology has given us extensive knowledge of Egypt’s religious beliefs and how they changed over time, making it possible to cite one detail from this version of a story and another from that.

But the early Christians, even if they had wanted to base the Gospels on the Horus myths, would have had no way to do so. They might have known what was believed about Horus in the Egypt of their day, but they would have had no access to the endless variations of the stories that laid buried in the sands until archaeologists started digging them up in the 1800s.

Another part of the problem is that the claimed parallels between Jesus and Horus contain half-truths, distortions, and flat-out falsehoods. For example . . .

Horus is the son of the god Osiris, born to a virgin mother.
The mother of Horus was believed to be the goddess Isis. Her husband, the god Osiris, was killed by his enemy Seth, the god of the desert, and later dismembered. Isis managed to retrieve all of Osiris’s body parts except for his phallus, which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by catfish. (I’m not making this up). Isis used her goddess powers to temporarily resurrect Osiris and fashion a golden phallus. She was then impregnated, and Horus was conceived. However this story may be classified, it is not a virgin birth.

He was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer, who was later beheaded.
There is no character named Anup the Baptizer in ancient Egyptian mythology. This is the concoction of a 19th-century English poet and amateur Egyptologist by the name of Gerald Massey (see sidebar 2 below). Massey is the author of several books on the subject of Egyptology; however, professional Egyptologists have largely ignored his work. In fact, his writing is held in such low regard in archaeological circles that it is difficult to find references to him in reputable modern publications.

In the bookChrist in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection(Stellar House Publishing, 2009), author D. M. Murdock, drawing heavily from Gerald Massey, identifies “Anup the Baptizer” as the Egyptian god Anubis. Murdock then attempts to illustrate parallels between Anubis and John the Baptist.

Some evidence exists in Egyptian tomb paintings and sculptures to support the idea that a ritual washing was done during the coronation of Pharaohs, but it is always depicted as having been done by the gods. This indicates that it may have been understood as a spiritual event that likely never happened in reality (cf. Alan Gardiner, “The Baptism of Pharaoh,”The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 36). This happened only to kings (if it happened to them at all), and one searches in vain to find depictions of Horus being ritually washed by Anubis.

Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert.
The companion guide to the filmZeitgeistoutlines the basis for this claim by explaining, “As does Satan with Jesus, Set (aka Seth) attempts to kill Horus. Set is the ‘god of the desert’ who battles Horus, while Jesus is tempted in the desert by Satan” (p. 23).

Doing battle with the “god of the desert” is not the same as being tempted while alone in the desert; and according to the Gospel accounts, Satan did not attempt to kill Jesus there (cf. Matt. 4, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13).

The relationship between Horus and Seth in the ancient Egyptian religion was quite different than the relationship between Jesus and Satan. While Seth and Horus were often at odds with each other, it was believed that their reconciliation was what allowed the pharaohs to rule over a unified country. It was believed that the pharaoh was a “Horus reconciled to Seth, or a gentleman in whom the spirit of disorder had been integrated” (The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Seth”). In stark contrast, there is never any reconciliation between Jesus and Satan in Scripture.

Healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, and walked on water.
The Metternich Stella, a monument from the 4th century B.C., tells a story in which Horus is poisoned by Seth and brought back to life by the god Thoth at the request of his mother, Isis. The ancient Egyptians used the spell described on this monument to cure people. It was believed that the spirit of Horus would dwell within the sick, and they would be cured the same way he was. This spiritual indwelling is a far cry from the physical healing ministry of Christ. Horus did not travel the countryside laying his hands on sick people and restoring them to health.

He raised Asar from the dead. “Asar” translates to “Lazarus.”
The nameOsirusis a Greek transliteration of the Egyptian nameAsar. As I mentioned earlier, Osirus is the father of Horus, and, according to the myth, he was killed by Seth and briefly brought back to life by Isis in order to conceive Horus. It was not Horus who raised “Asar” from the dead. It was his mother.

The nameLazarusis actually derived from the Hebrew wordEleazarmeaning “God has helped.” This name was common among the Jews of Jesus’ time. In fact, two figures in the New Testament bear this name (cf. John 11, Luke 16:19-31).

Oh, yeah, he also had twelve disciples.
Again, this claim finds its origin in the work of Gerald Massey (Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World,book 12), which points to a mural depicting “the twelve who reap the harvest.” But Horus does not appear in the mural.

In the various Horus myths, there are indications of the four “Sons of Horus,” or six semi-gods, who followed him, and at times there were various numbers of human followers, but they never add up to twelve. Only Massey arrives at this number, and he does so only by referencing the mural with no Horus on it.

Yes, Horus was crucified first.
In many of the books and on the websites that attempt to make this connection, it is often pointed out that there are several ancient depictions of Horus standing with his arms spread in cruciform. One can only answer this with a heartfelt “So what?” A depiction of a person standing with his arms spread is not unusual, nor is it evidence that the story of a crucified savior predates that of Jesus Christ.

We do have extensive evidence from extra-biblical sources that the Romans around the time of Christ practiced crucifixion as a form of capital punishment. Not only that, but we have in the Bible actual eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ crucifixion. On the other hand, there is no historical evidence at all to suggest that the ancient Egyptians made use of this type of punishment.

And after three days, two women announced Horus, the savior of humanity, had been resurrected.
As I explained before, the story of the child Horus dying and being brought back to life is described on the Metternich Stella, which in no way resembles the sacrificial death of Jesus. Christ did not die as a child, only to be brought back to life because his grieving mother went to the animal-headed god of magic.

The mythology surrounding Horus is closely tied with the pharaohs, because they were believed to be Horus in life and Osirus in death. With the succession of pharaohs over the centuries came new variations on the myth. Sometimes Horus was believed to be the god of the sky, and at other times he was believed to be the god of war, at other times both; but he was never described as a “savior of humanity.”

Combating the never-ending list of parallels
If you do an Internet search on this subject, you will come across lists of supposed parallels between Jesus and Horus that are much longer than Bill Maher’s filmic litany. What they all have in common is that they do not cite their sources.

Should you encounter people who try to challenge you with these claims, ask them to explain where it is they got their information. Many times you will find that they originate with Gerald Massey or one of his contemporaries. Sometimes they have been repeated and expanded on by others. But these claims have little or no connection to the facts.

You should challenge the person making the claim to produce a primary source or a statement from a scholarly secondary source that has a footnote that can be checked. Then make sure the sources being quoted come from scholars with a Ph.D. in a relevant field, such as a person who teaches Egyptology at the university level.

Due to the mass of misinformation on the Internet and in print on this subject, it is important to respond to these claims using credible sources. Fortunately, there are many good books on Egypt and Egyptology in print. But there are also bad ones, so make sure to verify the author’s credentials before purchasing them.

The study of ancient Egypt has come a long way since its beginning in the 1800s, and new discoveries are being made even today that improve upon our understanding of the subject. It’s safe to say they will do nothing to bolster the alleged Jesus-Horus connection.

The Horus mythology developed over a period of 5,000 years, and as a result it can be a complex subject to tackle. But you don’t have to be an Egyptologist to answer all of these claims. You just need to know where to look for the answers—and to be aware of the claims’ flawed sources.

Sidebar 1:
A brief history of modern Egyptology



The Rosetta Stone

Modern Egyptology really begins with the French campaign in Egypt and Syria initiated by Napoleon Bonaparte around 1798. Among other things, the French established a scientific exploration of the region.

In 1799, a soldier named Pierre-Francois Bouchard discovered the Rosetta Stone, which contained a bilingual text that eventually led to the translation of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Prior to this, our knowledge of ancient Egypt’s 5,000-year history was limited to what was known through the writings of pre-Christian Greek historians such as Herodotus and Strabo.

The discovery of the Rosetta Stone led to a renewed interest by the Europeans in all things ancient Egypt, commonly referred to now as “Egyptomania.” It was not until nearly a century later that Egyptology as an academic discipline began to come into its own. Since that time, we have a much better understanding of ancient Egyptian history and culture.

Sidebar 2:
Massey scholarship



Gerald Massey

When researching the supposed Egyptian influences on Christianity, inevitably one comes across the name Gerald Massey. Massey was an English poet and amateur Egyptologist who lived from 1828 to 1907. He is the author of three books on the subject:The Book of the Beginnings,The Natural Genesis, andAncient Egypt: The Light of the World. Because his books represent some of the earliest attempts to draw comparisons between the Christian and Egyptian religions, other writers attempting to draw these comparisons frequently cite them.

One recent example is the bookChrist in Egypt; The Horus-Jesus Connectionby D.M. Murdock. In it the author states: “This present analysis of the claims regarding the correspondences between the Egyptian and Christian religions is not dependent on Massey’s work for the most part,” yet she devotes an entire chapter of the book to defending the authenticity of Massey’s scholarship (something she does not feel called to do for anyone else she quotes in her book) and thereafter adopting many of the same comparisons.

Critics of Massey’s work often point out that he had no formal education in the area of Egyptology. While this is a valid criticism, I think it is also important to point out that the study of ancient Egyptian religion has advanced far beyond what was known in the 19th century. Not only is much of Massey’s scholarship built on wild speculation, it is also the product of an academic discipline still in its infancy.
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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serial said:
Also I would like someone to explain why the story of horus is similar to jesus and predates jesus birth?

Gerald Massey strikes again...........:francis:

Believe crazy conspiracy theories created by 19th Century Druids, brehs.

Also, Hebrews only stated their 'deity's' proper name in the Temple for prayers. Outside of the Temple, it was perfectly fine to refer to it by pseudonyms out of respect without repercussions. When the Temple was destroyed, they couldn't state it's name and, over time, the proper pronunciation was forgotten due to disuse.

No one knows it's 'proper' name anymore and it was totally unnecessary to do so outside of the Temple in the first place​
 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Here's another good book on the subject..............:mjlol:

images


Even 'Christ Mythers' say this one's :trash:, but I GUARANTEE someone is gonna post something from it.​
 

Sleepy Walker

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Since we realize the only reason why blacks are Christians are due to slavery. Slavery is done so it would only make since that the mental aspects on it be done as well

Belief in Christianity still keeps you in those mental shackles. It makes you believe there's a fairness to the world, when those people who created the Bible don't play fair.

People need to learn about the words they use just because I don't believe in Jesus doesn't make me an atheist.
 
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