What’s your opinion on this black conversation talking point?

[UpAndComing]

Justify what?

Moynihan predicted what would happen to the Black Family.
And that prediction came true.

What's there to defend?

I already told ol boy that he needs to concede the point.

Lemme state it plainly, the Civil Rights destroyed the Black Family that existed from about 1865 to 1965.

Are you on record as preferring Jim Crow?

Make it plain

That is a bad faith argument

- The consensus was that the Reagan Era was bad for Black people
- The consensus was that the Bush Sr era was bad for Black people, Bush Jr, Trump, etc etc

What makes Jim Crow the "mother of all bad eras" of Black people?
- Black people were still getting lynched in the 80s and 90s post Jim Crow
- The KKK is still alive and well post Jim Crow
- Police brutality was certainly alive and well post Jim Crow
- Redlining, Black voter suppression, etc etc was all alive and well post Jim Crow
- Laws to give 20 to 30 year harsh prison sentences for Black men was enacted post Jim Crow


Don't try to sidestep an argument with a shock value phrase like you're in middle school and address the main point of the issue of government intervention into Black communities and Black families

 

[Seoul Gleou]

Galveston, TX had one of the best black American schools in the country; Central High. It graduated alumni that would go on the be doctors, lawyers and war heroes. When integration happened, the only school for black kids was integrated and became Ball High; a white school. Effectively absorbing what was a nearly 100 year old school with its own rich black history. It was a victory for civil rights because black pupils and white pupils would trend towards equality. But it was also a loss because that school was history. It was a symbol of black perseverance and resilience.

When I visited the Civil Rights Institute in Birmingham, I saw the same theme and didn't know how to feel. Here was a museum dedicated to showing what life was like in The Magic City and how well black people were doing, all things considered (bombing, redlining, killings, etc). Once integration began, there was also a disintegration of black communities. Black businesses were bought by white owners, black students went to white schools and left black schools with no choice but to shut down. White patrons paid less for services at black vendors. The list goes on.

I think it's an odd feeling to see that the benefit of being seen as a full human with rights was paid with a loss of community and perseverance together.

That's just my opinion as of today. I'm sure it will change with time and as I visit more places and learn more history.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

That is the argument.

These conservative Black folks want to go back to "When we were colored"

And that means

• Lynching
• Not being able to vote
• Segregated Schools
• Unable to attend college
• Can't even apply to certain jobs

There was no golden age of Black Family AND Civil Rights.

So which do you want?

Working in the fields, you're woman being a maid, cook, and nanny, with your kids going to sub par schools...

Or what we have now?

It isn't an "either/or"-dichotomy. That's far too simplistic and ignores the historical context of America moving from pre- to post-Industrialization and all it entailed. There wasn't a 'Golden Age', per se, for Black people prior to the Civil Rights Era as the Black family, ideologically/socially/economically wasn't a cohesive unit due to centuries of slavery. There was a small percentage, the 'middle-class', that did manage, but the majority of the Black population were (and still are) poor.​

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

You mean Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a DEMOCRAT, who was a state senator of New York of all places. How do you justify that?

Or are you going with the "not a true Democrat" angle by some arbitrary explanation to discount his point of view?

He might have been a Democrat, but that doesn't mean much, especially in the 60s when both parties were shifting on civil rights and social policies. He was part of the conservative wing that eventually became Republicans (though he stayed with the Democrats). He was also Nixon's domestic policy advisor.

As far as the "Moynihan Report," it wrongly focused a lot on family structure in the Black community, while ignoring bigger issues like racism and economic problems that were hurting Black families. It glossed over real problems like systemic racism, poverty, discrimination, and the lack of access to good jobs and housing that were affecting Black people. Instead, he pushed the idea that Black families just needed to "fix themselves to fix their problems," which made it easier for politicians to ignore the larger issues that needed addressing. Remember, he worked on social policy under Nixon, and those policies ended up hurting Black communities A LOT. By being part of Nixon's team, he helped push policies that made his own flawed ideas come true. It's why people should stop using it as a reference.

 

[WIA20XX]

That is a bad faith argument

- The consensus was that the Reagan Era was bad for Black people
- The consensus was that the Bush Sr era was bad for Black people, Bush Jr, Trump, etc etc

No era has EVER BEEN GOOD for black people.

None
Never
Zero.

But if you're comparing 1950's and 60's Black America to 1980s and 90's Black America - the difference was night and day in terms of heath, infant mortality, income, economic power, political power - it's only been on an upward trajectory.

This is what they're complaining about

there’s this common talking point amongst black conservatives and white conservatives as well (of course) basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today

A stronger family unit - which implied the nuclear family, specifically married couples.
And "the culture" - and I grew up 2 Live Crew, NWA, and the Geto Boys - so I'm not the person to ask about "culture". What we had in the 80's and 90s was as graphic if not more than what gets pumped today...but that's an argument for a different board.

What makes Jim Crow the "mother of all bad eras" of Black people?
- Black people were still getting lynched in the 80s and 90s post Jim Crow

Thousands were lynched during that era.

- The KKK is still alive and well post Jim Crow

The KKK elected political officials then. The Klan can't do that today.

- Police brutality was certainly alive and well post Jim Crow

And the #'s are way down.

- Redlining, Black voter suppression, etc etc was all alive and well post Jim Crow

Predatory economic behavior is a known feature of living under oppression.
Those places can get sued now.
That wasn't available prior to 1965,

- Laws to give 20 to 30 year harsh prison sentences for Black men was enacted post Jim Crow

And less Black men are convicted by sham judges and racist juries.

We don't live in a black utopia - arguably the Black man is still living in Hell.

But it used to be far far worse.

Black (usually Male) Conservatives would prefer to go back to that time, cause it means putting Lizzo back in the kitchen, even if they have to take the lash.

Don't try to sidestep an argument with a shock value phrase like you're in middle school and address the main point of the issue of government intervention into Black communities and Black families

No, that's not a bad faith argument.

It is the truth.

Black men specifically, but Black people in general - are still at the bottom of every meaningful measure - because racism has become unofficial policy of individuals and businesses - but then you just had to take it. Then you didn't have options.

Now you do.
Now you can fight back with the state.

You either pay attention to history, or you don't.

 

[Clayton Endicott]

Cacs that want to go back to the pre Civil Rights era, and the tap dancing weenies that agree with them. This and your local weather at 11.