What’s your opinion on this black conversation talking point?

[earthwalka]

So I have some black conservative friends and I tend to identify as a leftist. But basically there’s this common talking point amongst black conservatives and white conservatives as well (of course) basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today. Going on to state that the Civil Rights movement and the rise of liberalism, militancy, Marxism, socialism etc… ruined the black community. Now obviously I don’t outright disagree with some of the generalities of this statement. Black culture today IS different but there is definitely nuance to this (something a lot of conservatives tend to not like to contend with for some reason).

 

[WIA20XX]

basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today. Going on to state that the Civil Rights movement and the rise of liberalism, militancy, Marxism, socialism etc… ruined the black community.

Typical Moynihan Report stuff.

Conservatives like to set up a situation where they pit actual Black Progress (Black folks have improved in every measure) against Black Marital Rates.

It's pretty typical for that side to disregard racism, not talk about sexism, and pretend to not understand predatory capitalism.

So as a Dem, Liberal, Progressive, or actual Leftist - you should agree with them - yes, the Black family was better under segregation, but we also got lynched, had no civil rights, could not go to school, could not get most jobs, etc.

No Black Man (or woman) would prefer to live under Jim Crow.

What Leftists need to grapple with, is freedom to live the life you want, also means freedom to not live with each other.

 

[earthwalka]

Typical Moynihan Report stuff.

Conservatives like to set up a situation where they pit actual Black Progress (Black folks have improved in every measure) against Black Marital Rates.

It's pretty typical for that side to disregard racism, not talk about sexism, and pretend to not understand predatory capitalism.

So as a Dem, Liberal, Progressive, or actual Leftist - you should agree with them - yes, the Black family was better under segregation, but we also got lynched, had no civil rights, could not go to school, could not get most jobs, etc.

No Black Man (or woman) would prefer to live under Jim Crow.

What Leftists need to grapple with, is freedom to live the life you want, also means freedom to not live with each other.

agree with everything said but could expound on that last sentence?

 

[Wild self]

Its function vs dysfunction

People equate "liberalism" and "progressive" mentalities with societal breakdowns and dysfunctions, when its most ECONOMICAL reasons. Most other 1st world countries have high marriage rates, a sensible cost of living, and a huge safety net.

 

[Ghost Utmost]

Freedom

That's all

What if they told you slavery itself was somehow better for the Black family? You'd consider going back into slavery for the said benefits?

Jim Crow is about Black people being second class citizens who have far fewer rights than the "true" Americans.

No imagined benefits for family values can justify Black people being considered by the law as inferior.

 

[WIA20XX]

agree with everything said but could expound on that last sentence?

Given that Black Men do the choosing, Black Men are choosing not to marry Black Women.

Black Men are by and large not choosing to marry ANY women.

Over ~60% of us are not married. Where it's the opposite for White Men. (but there numbers are going down)

If we want to talk about why Black men aren't choosing to marry, that's a typical discussion. (Cats too broke, females too fat, you know the drill)

Rather than engage in a typical Coli Breh conversation - it's important to note that Black men just aren't marriage minded.

 

[Ski Mask]

Typical Moynihan Report stuff.

Conservatives like to set up a situation where they pit actual Black Progress (Black folks have improved in every measure) against Black Marital Rates.

It's pretty typical for that side to disregard racism, not talk about sexism, and pretend to not understand predatory capitalism.

So as a Dem, Liberal, Progressive, or actual Leftist - you should agree with them - yes, the Black family was better under segregation, but we also got lynched, had no civil rights, could not go to school, could not get most jobs, etc.

No Black Man (or woman) would prefer to live under Jim Crow.

What Leftists need to grapple with, is freedom to live the life you want, also means freedom to not live with each other.

That last part is hard for a lot of people in this country to understand. There's nothing stopping you from linking up right now, alot of this repeal the 19th or "jim crow days were better" people are basically mad that they can't get everyone to follow their program and think forcing them to will get them to

 

[OperationNumbNutts]

So I have some black conservative friends and I tend to identify as a leftist. But basically there’s this common talking point amongst black conservatives and white conservatives as well (of course) basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today. Going on to state that the Civil Rights movement and the rise of liberalism, militancy, Marxism, socialism etc… ruined the black community. Now obviously I don’t outright disagree with some of the generalities of this statement. Black culture today IS different but there is definitely nuance to this (something a lot of conservatives tend to not like to contend with for some reason).

The problem with talking points is they eliminate critical thinking. That talking conveniently ignores issues like Jim Crow laws, Grand Father Clauses, No Negro Clause in real estate contracts, immanent domain by federal and state governments of black owned land, red summer, and the list goes on that destroyed black wealth including the family. Also, when you really look at the issues. Black conservatism really isn't about adopting right-wing ideology, it's about black rebellion of the on spoken black status quote. Cacs are well aware and capitalize (including monetize) it just like everything else. Folks have their eyes wide open and still blind.

 

[Luke Cage]

So I have some black conservative friends and I tend to identify as a leftist. But basically there’s this common talking point amongst black conservatives and white conservatives as well (of course) basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today. Going on to state that the Civil Rights movement and the rise of liberalism, militancy, Marxism, socialism etc… ruined the black community. Now obviously I don’t outright disagree with some of the generalities of this statement. Black culture today IS different but there is definitely nuance to this (something a lot of conservatives tend to not like to contend with for some reason).

I bet none of them take accountability for the fact that Reagan is the one that fukked it all up.

 

[Swirv]

So I have some black conservative friends and I tend to identify as a leftist. But basically there’s this common talking point amongst black conservatives and white conservatives as well (of course) basically stating that pre-civil rights movement (1960s) the black family unit was stronger and black people and the culture that we cultivated as a whole was better off than it is today. Going on to state that the Civil Rights movement and the rise of liberalism, militancy, Marxism, socialism etc… ruined the black community. Now obviously I don’t outright disagree with some of the generalities of this statement. Black culture today IS different but there is definitely nuance to this (something a lot of conservatives tend to not like to contend with for some reason).

What are the age ranges of the people you had this convo with?

 

[earthwalka]

I bet none of them take accountability for the fact that Reagan is the one that fukked it all up.

Well of course not, you would then have to concede that government (and in particular conservative government) were purveyors of systemic oppression against black people. For some reason black conservatives are unwavering when it comes to criticisms of American culture and imperialism unless it pertains to progressive politics.

 

[earthwalka]

What are the age ranges of the people you had this convo with?

Mid late 20s

 

[Swirv]

Mid late 20s

Easy to romanticize the past when you weren’t there. Folks I’ve talked to that lived through that era tell me that these days are better for black folks on a whole.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Typical Moynihan Report stuff.

The report highlights the fact the the Black family was already disintegrating back in the 20's due to; welfare laws, South-to-North emigration, and the Nation moving to a more industrial economy rather than agricultural after WW1. As it was already on a downward trajectory, the 'Sexual Revolution' of the 60's sped-up the process.

I know the Right uses it disparagingly, but that's because they're pushing an agenda the author never intended, AFAIK.​

 

[Dameon Farrow]

Easy to romanticize the past when you weren’t there. Folks I’ve talked to that lived through that era tell me that these days are better for black folks on a whole.

We have access to more opportunities and we're paid more. Notice I never said paid enough.

The 'things were better off pre-civil rights' talking point is blatant right wing nonsense.
@earthwalka I bet your conservative friends think the Democrat Party that championed slavery is the same Democrat Party of today, huh?