What's your educational attainment level?

[theworldismine13]

http://www.nber.org/digest/nov06/w12159.html http://yaleeconomicreview.com/graduating-during-a-recession/

Breh that study is comparing college graduates to college graduates, not college graduates to high school graduates

You can bring up all the anecdotes you want but statistically a humanities college graduate will make more money and have less unemployment than a high school graduate

Of course it's possible for a HS graduate to make way more money than a college graduate it's also possible to get in the nba, nfl or become a big rap star

And I strongly object to you guys essentially saying an analysis of college benefits is something you can do by throwing around hypotheticals, anecdotes and some paper napkin type calculations, college has societal benefits that go way beyond money

 

[Blackking]

Thanks for confirming that Detroit has an anti academic culture

You are very welcome. Realistically though, it's not Anti Academic. That shyt is a myth, and I'm not sure why you're promoting it. There a situations and circumstances that would make certain people not really graduate at high rates or cause issues.... but the issue isn't Not wanting education or being anti academic. I'm trying to figure why you're pushing that point. There really aren't situations or studies that show that even when you provide the resources and structure that black kids are inherently anti academic. From harlem, to NJ, to chicago to everywhere were there has been a push for leadership and direction in certain areas- the results were good... the culture didn't change though. I went to white schools and mixed schools.. .. they were not more academic - they were the same as black kids. Some are focused, some are mediocre, and some don't give a fukk. Stop struggle reenforcing stereotypes. Especially with no solutions at all.

 

[theworldismine13]

You are very welcome. Realistically though, it's not Anti Academic. That shyt is a myth, and I'm not sure why you're promoting it. There a situations and circumstances that would make certain people not really graduate at high rates or cause issues.... but the issue isn't Not wanting education or being anti academic. I'm trying to figure why you're pushing that point. There really aren't situations or studies that show that even when you provide the resources and structure that black kids are inherently anti academic. From harlem, to NJ, to chicago to everywhere were there has been a push for leadership and direction in certain areas- the results were good... the culture didn't change though. I went to white schools and mixed schools.. .. they were not more academic - they were the same as black kids. Some are focused, some are mediocre, and some don't give a fukk. Stop struggle reenforcing stereotypes. Especially with no solutions at all.

Actually studies show that even when you take income into account black students perfom worse, there have been studies that show that black students perform worse even if they go to the same school as whites and have higher income, and studies have shown that amount spent on a student is not directly related to student performance

I push the point becuase I think culture is fundemantal and I think we have to come up with solutions internally and that are self sustaining

I think a lot of the solutions put forward that deal with racism, segregation etc inevitable leave black people dependent on the actions of white people

 

[Blackking]

Actually studies show that even when you take income into account black students perfom worse, there have been studies that show that black students perform worse even if they go to the same school as whites and have higher income, and studies have shown that amount spent on a student is not directly related to student performance

I push the point becuase I think culture is fundemantal and I think we have to come up with solutions internally and that are self sustaining

I think a lot of the solutions put forward that deal with racism, segregation etc inevitable leave black people dependent on the actions of white people

didn't say the money = better education. And FYI, all of your charter school solutions inevitable leave us at the whim of white supremacy and the gov it supports. End solutions that i would focus on are technology... and technology for youth... and independent schools that aren't public or charter.

I said resources not throw money. Most people link culture directly to oppression - fyi.

We can't pretend that test don't have a cultural and structural bias. Even test like the asvab for the military has bias. Some red neck who barely passed HS might have a higher score than a urban kid with a 3.5 gpa. You score higher when you feel a part - you score lower when ur mental perception is that you're 'not a part' of the mainstream. Plus money is a factor. house hold income affects the college decisions of every race, every group and every community. Just off the fact that our income had to play catch up from slavery and is still lower on average - play a role in our pursuit of higher education. Very few kids out of any community attend college with little to no support.

Studies show black kids raised with white parents in white communities score higher. Every nation on Earth (non 3rd world) have educational studies that show environment affects testing and IQ... the bottom scores the bottom. Urban environments regardless how the culture is, how great the parents are, etc - naturally produce children that (on average) will score lower on standardized test. In a superficial nation like America where Thomas Edison > Nikola Tesla, how do you think the social economic group on the bottom with the most stigmatization will fare??? shyt's not set up for us and understanding that is the first step in making progress for the masses. Focusing on the black people who individually push through isn't a winning strategy. Solutions for the masses is the only way to think.

Also, the culture is progressing. Every year since the 40's in every subject the gap lowers. You're an idiot to believe the gap magically vanishes from 'banned from learning' to equal status within 50 years. As we speak the achievement gap is lowering.... emphasizing and making all your points focused on black failure isn't = a solution. Its a defeatist mentality... We should only build on our success.

 

[theworldismine13]

didn't say the money = better education.

im glad we agree

And FYI, all of your charter school solutions inevitable leave us at the whim of white supremacy and the gov it supports.

like i said before, let me clarify that i just meant that charter schools and vouchers provide MORE independence from the traditional public school bureaucracy

my bad for the confusion, but i was not suggesting that charters schools and vouchers are completely independent, i think all schools should be subject to all state and federal regulations and they should all be regulated and students should be tested using standardized tests

charter schools provide MORE independence, thats all, you would still have to deal with white supremacy and other types of bureaucracy but IMO it would still be a significant improvement, i think it provides economic opportunity and a place for creativity and innovation for black people, including the disparaged humanities major

End solutions that i would focus on are technology... and technology for youth... and independent schools that aren't public or charter.

technology is the same as money, they are booth good to have but studies do not support the notion that adding money and technology improves students outcome

almost all studies and schools that show improvement have come down to addressing culture

i think money and technology can help a lot but only if you got the fundamentals right first

and im all for independent schools, but the complaint about charter schools was that it leaves people behind, but independent schools are private schools, so only people that can afford them can go to it, which is why im for vouchers but you guys are against that too, so i dont know where you are going with that, supporting independence schools contradicts your complaint about charter schools

but i definitely support black independent private schools, since im actually a product of that, but i also support charters and vouchers

I said resources not throw money. Most people link culture directly to oppression - fyi.

We can't pretend that test don't have a cultural and structural bias. Even test like the asvab for the military has bias. Some red neck who barely passed HS might have a higher score than a urban kid with a 3.5 gpa. You score higher when you feel a part - you score lower when ur mental perception is that you're 'not a part' of the mainstream. Plus money is a factor. house hold income affects the college decisions of every race, every group and every community. Just off the fact that our income had to play catch up from slavery and is still lower on average - play a role in our pursuit of higher education. Very few kids out of any community attend college with little to no support.

Studies show black kids raised with white parents in white communities score higher. Every nation on Earth (non 3rd world) have educational studies that show environment affects testing and IQ... the bottom scores the bottom. Urban environments regardless how the culture is, how great the parents are, etc - naturally produce children that (on average) will score lower on standardized test. In a superficial nation like America where Thomas Edison > Nikola Tesla, how do you think the social economic group on the bottom with the most stigmatization will fare??? shyt's not set up for us and understanding that is the first step in making progress for the masses. Focusing on the black people who individually push through isn't a winning strategy. Solutions for the masses is the only way to think.

im not sure what this ramble is about, its all over the place, i agree that standardized tests are culturally and structurally biased, i dont agree that that means black kids cant excel at them, i think we need to approach it differently and that is why we need to discuss culture and what it means to be black, the definition of being black or being a "real nikka" has to be redefined to include academics, that is my point

and that is why i have no problem with humanities majors and i think its important for black people to go to college not just for bachelors but for phds and such, because those are the people that write these tests and i also want more of these humanities majors in black neighborhoods just for the cultural shift that needs to happen, they are a good a good thing even if they are currently broke or un or underemployed

Also, the culture is progressing. Every year since the 40's in every subject the gap lowers. You're an idiot to believe the gap magically vanishes from 'banned from learning' to equal status within 50 years. As we speak the achievement gap is lowering.... emphasizing and making all your points focused on black failure isn't = a solution. Its a defeatist mentality... We should only build on our success.

and we need to progress more because black people are very far behind

 

[Blackking]

im glad we agree



like i said before, let me clarify that i just meant that charter schools and vouchers provide MORE independence from the traditional public school bureaucracy

my bad for the confusion, but i was not suggesting that charters schools and vouchers are completely independent, i think all schools should be subject to all state and federal regulations and they should all be regulated and students should be tested using standardized tests

charter schools provide MORE independence, thats all, you would still have to deal with white supremacy and other types of bureaucracy but IMO it would still be a significant improvement, i think it provides economic opportunity and a place for creativity and innovation for black people, including the disparaged humanities major



technology is the same as money, they are booth good to have but studies do not support the notion that adding money and technology improves students outcome

almost all studies and schools that show improvement have come down to addressing culture

i think money and technology can help a lot but only if you got the fundamentals right first

and im all for independent schools, but the complaint about charter schools was that it leaves people behind, but independent schools are private schools, so only people that can afford them can go to it, which is why im for vouchers but you guys are against that too, so i dont know where you are going with that, supporting independence schools contradicts your complaint about charter schools

but i definitely support black independent private schools, since im actually a product of that, but i also support charters and vouchers





im not sure what this ramble is about, its all over the place, i agree that standardized tests are culturally and structurally biased, i dont agree that that means black kids cant excel at them, i think we need to approach it differently and that is why we need to discuss culture and what it means to be black, the definition of being black or being a "real nikka" has to be redefined to include academics, that is my point

and that is why i have no problem with humanities majors and i think its important for black people to go to college not just for bachelors but for phds and such, because those are the people that write these tests and i also want more of these humanities majors in black neighborhoods just for the cultural shift that needs to happen, they are a good a good thing even if they are currently broke or un or underemployed



and we need to progress more because black people are very far behind

technology isn't the same as money. Technology > Money.... because it can create money, and also spread messages. Also there is a war against black youth and black progress and we need to think if it as such or we will never make progress of the masses. Right now in the world,, ground and air war is small time. Most nation to nation attacks are cyber attacks. IF blacks don't get up on technology and focus the attention there that = not having guns in the 1500's.

The culture that needs to be fixed is the culture of focusing on all our negative and not understanding our situations. Sadly, many successful and/or powerful black are simply modern house slaves that are suffering from Samboism. We come up and then do nothing. Marcus Garvey said that the black middle class would do exactly what it's doing... Kenneth Stampp: They are devoted to the masters and the masters families and alienated from the other slaves. "some of them will betray another to curry favor with the master" In this way the master destroyed the sympathy that united the victims of the same oppression... He has but to arm the human passions against each other."

The psychology of oppression, even of modern disenfranchisement is deep enough that we want to got college, entertain and support western imperialism and disregard any hood person who didn't boot strap their way out of poverty. We would rather push for acceptance and integration to the oppressors ( or push separation but utilizing their values and ways) - Not realizing that we do that because of the mental chains of even the most conscious amongst us. first we need to work on ourselves, then family, the people. Only after the people make progress can we then entertain these weird ideas about Americanism, economic capitalism, or western agendas, or being unified with these other people.

 

[theworldismine13]

technology isn't the same as money. Technology > Money.... because it can create money, and also spread messages. Also there is a war against black youth and black progress and we need to think if it as such or we will never make progress of the masses. Right now in the world,, ground and air war is small time. Most nation to nation attacks are cyber attacks. IF blacks don't get up on technology and focus the attention there that = not having guns in the 1500's.

The culture that needs to be fixed is the culture of focusing on all our negative and not understanding our situations. Sadly, many successful and/or powerful black are simply modern house slaves that are suffering from Samboism. We come up and then do nothing. Marcus Garvey said that the black middle class would do exactly what it's doing... Kenneth Stampp: They are devoted to the masters and the masters families and alienated from the other slaves. "some of them will betray another to curry favor with the master" In this way the master destroyed the sympathy that united the victims of the same oppression... He has but to arm the human passions against each other."

The psychology of oppression, even of modern disenfranchisement is deep enough that we want to got college, entertain and support western imperialism and disregard any hood person who didn't boot strap their way out of poverty. We would rather push for acceptance and integration to the oppressors ( or push separation but utilizing their values and ways) - Not realizing that we do that because of the mental chains of even the most conscious amongst us. first we need to work on ourselves, then family, the people. Only after the people make progress can we then entertain these weird ideas about Americanism, economic capitalism, or western agendas, or being unified with these other people.

i thought you were talking about technology in the class room, technology in the class room is good, but like i said there isnt any evidence that adding technology makes for better student outcomes

if you are talking about technology in general, i think you are a bit confused, you're an IT guy so maybe you think the stuff you fiddle with is technology, which it is, but the real technological development happens at the phd level, and for black people to make any significant inroads into R&D it would require a shift in black culture and it would require more black people attending "white" universities

the rest of of your stuff is just rambling, thanks for sharing, its always interesting listening to the thoughts of a scared negro

 

[Blackking]

i thought you were talking about technology in the class room, technology in the class room is good, but like i said there isnt any evidence that adding technology makes for better student outcomes

if you are talking about technology in general, i think you are a bit confused, you're an IT guy so maybe you think the stuff you fiddle with is technology, which it is, but the real technological development happens at the phd level, and for black people to make any significant inroads into R&D it would require a shift in black culture and it would require more black people attending "white" universities

the rest of of your stuff is just rambling, thanks for sharing, its always interesting listening to the thoughts of a scared negro

well, it's not interesting to hear c00nish thoughts and sentiments. Everyone who was against any revolutionaries or leaders in the 60's or 50's had people like you promoting the BS you're speaking about. Your c00n shyt is nothing new, it just grosses me out.

first off I'm not talking about me. I'm speaking on technology in general... from a career perspective we need more blacks to pursue it. Lol @ you talking about the PHD level and technology.... first off what is a "white" university. There are just universities that are black or ones that are publicly funded and private. Millions of blacks are pursuing real shyt at increasing rates at these places that you call "white" universities. I know your favorite thing is to diss black people but reality isn't the picture you paint of all black being monkey who hate school. just because rates are lagging behind whites you can't wrap ur mind around the fact that progress take longer than 1 day. Either way There are black people who are in R&D you ignorant fukk - and the majority of them come from our culture.

 

[theworldismine13]

well, it's not interesting to hear c00nish thoughts and sentiments. Everyone who was against any revolutionaries or leaders in the 60's or 50's had people like you promoting the BS you're speaking about. Your c00n shyt is nothing new, it just grosses me out.

yeah, ok mr revolutionary

first off I'm not talking about me. I'm speaking on technology in general... from a career perspective we need more blacks to pursue it.

sure, that is what i have been arguing this entire thread, but technology is normally learned in college

the technology that you can learn from reading books and passing cert tests is fine, but the other side of technology and science is not something you can do yourself, it requires a university education and university level facilities

Lol @ you talking about the PHD level and technology.... first off what is a "white" university. There are just universities that are black or ones that are publicly funded and private. Millions of blacks are pursuing real shyt at increasing rates at these places that you call "white" universities.

i put white in quote because i dont really believe they should be looked at as white, but i was just referring to you saying something about how these schools are used to promote white supremacy, even if they are, black people will still have to attend these schools to gain the knowledge we need to develop strong prosperous neighborhoods

I know your favorite thing is to diss black people but reality isn't the picture you paint of all black being monkey who hate school. just because rates are lagging behind whites you can't wrap ur mind around the fact that progress take longer than 1 day. Either way There are black people who are in R&D you ignorant fukk - and the majority of them come from our culture.

and you're information is wrong, there arent any significant amount of blacks in the R&D field at the Phd level, its basically zero relatively speaking, which goes back to why i have a problem with people making these bogus ass calculations about how much money and debt it takes to go to school and whether its worth it and people like you suggesting schools are havens of white supremacy

 

[yoyoyo1]

people acting like if you go to college you graduate 100k in debt, like there arent cheap in-state public schools. clowns

 

[Blackking]

yeah, ok mr revolutionary




sure, that is what i have been arguing this entire thread, but technology is normally learned in college

the technology that you can learn from reading books and passing cert tests is fine, but the other side of technology and science is not something you can do yourself, it requires a university education and university level facilities



i put white in quote because i dont really believe they should be looked at as white, but i was just referring to you saying something about how these schools are used to promote white supremacy, even if they are, black people will still have to attend these schools to gain the knowledge we need to develop strong prosperous neighborhoods



and you're information is wrong, there arent any significant amount of blacks in the R&D field at the Phd level, its basically zero relatively speaking, which goes back to why i have a problem with people making these bogus ass calculations about how much money and debt it takes to go to school and whether its worth it and people like you suggesting schools are havens of white supremacy

Lol I never suggested the bold or anything else you're talking about.

student debt is criminal and the schools are used to give substandard information for the price the charge... The government is held up by white supremacy and the government eats off the criminal scam of higher education in america. The system could be better but that isn't a black and white issue... its a capitalism and corruption issue.

And many phd holders are underemployed... many of the most intelligent Americans, especially black are underpaid - and regardless.. the number of high level black tech professionals is increasing. There are nikkas I know that have people with higher education than them sending them resumes and asking for jobs n shyt... The nation isn't a 'reward the smartest and brightest ' type of nation. All that is BS. Get the degree for legitimacy only... the people with the drive and innovation are the ones that make change and own things. Thats the right direction for black people. ... get the education then push to the top. I don't know y u think that I'm against black people going to 'white' universities... that's just some caricature that you made up in ur head because you don' t like pro black people.

 

[theworldismine13]

Lol I never suggested the bold or anything else you're talking about.

oh my bad, i thought you had said that black people that go to these schools get brainwashed and come back and shyt on other black people, i guess that was someone else that said that, my apologies

student debt is criminal and the schools are used to give substandard information for the price the charge... The government is held up by white supremacy and the government eats off the criminal scam of higher education in america. The system could be better but that isn't a black and white issue... its a capitalism and corruption issue.

like i said before i think student debt is an issue, i think it effects what school you go to and it should make people think about alternatives, but i dont think it should effect the decision to whether to go to college, there are so many ways to avoid the debt trap (state schools, military, job reimbursement etc etc) and many different ways to defer or reduce you payments that i dont think its a showstopper

i think its a bureaucratic issue that needs to be fixed, like what Oregon is trying http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/e...uition-and-loans-at-state-colleges.html?_r=1&

but at the end of the day school is never gonna be free not even in sweden is it free http://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-still-have-a-ton-of-debt-how-can-that-be/

And many phd holders are underemployed... many of the most intelligent Americans, especially black are underpaid - and regardless.. the number of high level black tech professionals is increasing. There are nikkas I know that have people with higher education than them sending them resumes and asking for jobs n shyt... The nation isn't a 'reward the smartest and brightest ' type of nation. All that is BS. Get the degree for legitimacy only... the people with the drive and innovation are the ones that make change and own things. Thats the right direction for black people. ... get the education then push to the top. I don't know y u think that I'm against black people going to 'white' universities... that's just some caricature that you made up in ur head because you don' t like pro black people.

well again you are rambling and going off an a tangent

what i was saying is that there are basically zero black people at the phd level working in the R&D field, obviously there are but their number is tiny compared to other ethnic groups

and R&D is where technology is really developed

the fact that there are unemployed Phds isnt really countering my point that there needs to be an exponential increase in the number of blacks at the phd level

like i was explaining in the other thread and what marcus garvey jr explained is that black people are technologically behind, that issue of black people behind technologically (and also the fact that black people have lower education levels) means that black people have an interest in increasing the number of college graduates that is separate from the issue of employment of college graduates

no community, or nation can develop without having a critical mass of highly educated people, black people are lacking that, we are lacking the basic fundamentals

in other words having a bunch of unemployed black phds would be a step forward for black people from our current situation, that is a "good" problem to have

 

[Blackking]

oh my bad, i thought you had said that black people that go to these schools get brainwashed and come back and shyt on other black people, i guess that was someone else that said that, my apologies



like i said before i think student debt is an issue, i think it effects what school you go to and it should make people think about alternatives, but i dont think it should effect the decision to whether to go to college, there are so many ways to avoid the debt trap (state schools, military, job reimbursement etc etc) and many different ways to defer or reduce you payments that i dont think its a showstopper

i think its bureaucratic issue that needs to be fixed, like what Oregon is trying http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/e...uition-and-loans-at-state-colleges.html?_r=1&

but at the end of the day school is never gonna be free not even in sweden is it free http://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-still-have-a-ton-of-debt-how-can-that-be/



well again you are rambling and going off an a tangent

what i was saying is that there are basically zero black people at the phd level working in the R&D field, obviously there are but their number is tiny compared to other ethnic groups

and R&D is where technology is really developed

the fact that there are unemployed Phds isnt really countering my point that there needs to be an exponential increase in the number of blacks at the phd level

like i was explaining in the other thread and what marcus garvey jr explained is that black people are technologically behind, that issue of black people behind technologically (and also the fact that black people have lower education levels) means that black people have an interest in increasing the number of college graduates that is separate from the issue of employment of college graduates

no community, or nation can develop without having a critical mass of highly educated people, black people are lacking that, we are lacking that basic fundamentals

in other words having a bunch of unemployed black phds would be a step forward for black people from our current situation, that is a "good" problem to have

OK, I would rather have black Masters degree holders having phd holders working for them... but that's just how I think.

 

[theworldismine13]

OK, I would rather have black Masters degree holders having phd holders working for them... but that's just how I think.

i have no idea what that means

but i am saying that black people have certain needs and issues having to do with a deficit of educated people that supersede and are separate from the issues of employment, debt and income of college graduates

 

[Suicide King]

people acting like if you go to college you graduate 100k in debt, like there arent cheap in-state public schools. clowns

I believe college gives certain people a false sense of security, and probably does more harm than good. You can get through those college courses with average intelligence, but when these mediocre students get out in the job market they can't thrive.