What is the explanation of why White American players fell off in the 2000s vs White International players

[Dipsey Doo]

The real answer is that the NBA globalized and the competition from all corners of the globe to just get a sniff in the league is extremely tough.

 

[Primetime]

Working abroad, us expats get together weekly at different gyms to hoop; sometimes the older guys will have their kids with them (i'm talkin high school age). Back in 2020, a couple of the kids were white americans and were shooting around with our group; one of them made a dribble move step-back long distance shot and i was like "aight kid, i see you Luka!" (this was during the NBA bubble playoffs)

But he said "no sir, I'm Tyler Herro!!!"

Other white kid chimed in like oh yea Tyler's the truth! They were beaming with pride like Tyler was they father.

I was like "well, aight then"

I'm not around kids or even teens much, much less the white ones, so it was just funny having that exchange and how they no-sold Luka but were enamored with Herro.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

What’s the explanation why boomer c@cs were able to compete in the 70s, 80s Kiki vandeweghe, Paul Westphal, Rick Barry were athletic and could shot create

Those guys grew up in an age where competition was way lighter. Basketball wasn't as popular of a sport until the 1980s, a lot of black kids never got the opportunity to play, and there wasn't competition from international players. The Black community in particular was going through a ton of shyt in the 70s, 80s, and 90s and a lot of people with talent weren't getting opportunity due to their situation. Nowadays when basketball is one of the top sports in the world, Black middle class with opportunity is a lot larger, Black kids across the country get the chance to show their shyt if they have talent, it's just increased the competition a ton. I mean look at LeBron James. There are two guys who are rumored to be LeBron's father, both of whom have similar build and were basketball stars. One of them was shot to death when Bron was young and the other has spent his life in-and-out of prison for petty crime. Those are guys who didn't get the opportunity. Even in the 1990s for Bron to get the chances he did wasn't a given, a lot of kids out of his circumstance never made it to the top, a generation earlier it would have been almost impossible.

Also in 1980 just 1% of the NBA was international. In 1998 it was only up to 8%. Now it's damn near 30% international. Europe alone has 3x as many White people as the USA does, plus there are ballers coming in from Latin America and the Middle East too. So even if you were just going by pure #'s, you would expect White internationals to outnumber White Americans by 4-to-1 or 5-to-1. And the additional Black/Brown ballers from overseas making it increases the comp too. Every additional international player that comes in makes it that much harder for a White American to make it.

 

[mastermind]

My thinking is if you work on the technical skills from young and allow the athleticism to naturally progress as the human body grows and develops you'll get overall better athletes and a longer career. As the athleticism begins to decline you fall back on your skills and knowledge more and the decline is less noticable.

Of course, you also have a better understanding of the game if you have to think more on how you can achieve. Paul Pierce is a great example of that. Kobe was too.

Saying that, we also don't fully understand athleticism as lay people. Its not just explosive movements or strength.

edit: Thinking Basketball had a good podcast on this topic recently:

 

[Uitomy]

cause white people dont play with enough flavor and creativity. Its like white guys in rap, they're too homogenous and they all sound the same while not really adding any pizzas and jazz to their voice, cadence, and delivery (and also choosing horrible HORRIBLE beats). White guys tend to not work on their handles and mid range game beyond pull ups and face up jumpers. In Europe mf's dont care how you play they just need you to put the ball in the hoop and play defense.

 

[Shadow King]

Breh, I think White folk can play. I have hooped with a few of em, and they can hoop. Athleticism is their problem, or rather, we are TOO athletic for them.

I think it was the 60s when NBA basketball became a fast game, where the play started to get close to or above the rim, due to Black folk entering the league. But there were quotas that limited Black players to a few players a team.

Back in the 70s and 80s, White folk were still the slight majority in the league. Brehs weren't really into hooping like that, as a career path. We was too tied up in civil justice and then the crack epidemic that hit our communities hard in the 80s.

But then Jordan came, and Gatorade had an entire campaign slogan around wanting to BE LIKE MIKE. So naturally, our youths wanted to play, and the rest is history.

The league was more black than white before Gatorade told boys to be like Mike.

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

Luka the most G cracka the league was ever seen… Mofo want all the smoke… Son Pat Bev/Brooker/CP0 and small George in the playoffs lmaoo

 

[Shadow King]

I just think the emphasis on athleticism is placed higher in America than it is Europe. And that's why people get discouraged. I've seen it growing up playing football. Players told they were too small even tho technically very good.

My thinking is if you work on the technical skills from young and allow the athleticism to naturally progress as the human body grows and develops you'll get overall better athletes and a longer career. As the athleticism begins to decline you fall back on your skills and knowledge more and the decline is less noticable.

Some of y'all have gone the other way now. Athleticism is very important in the NBA especially for perimeter players and the minute they lose it it doesn't look good.

The ability to explode and/or react at a freakish size is what stratifies ball players. Everyone of us could shoot 3000 jumpers and dribble through cones for 2 hours a day and we could still never run with an NBA scrub because we're not 6'7" with the reaction of a 5'7" elite athlete.

 

[pete clemenza]

They're in politics and hockey

Right, the economy was good back then. A lot of white kids didn't need sports

 

[MoneyTron]

Kinda sad we'll probably never see another Larry Bird...on the other hand, given the hype he'd get that might be a good thing.

 

[UpNext]

White Americans just don't know how to/can't compete without the deck stacked heavily in their favor

 

[get these nets]

Been waiting for the next Larry

The pressure to be the next Larry Bird was tagged on every half way decent white hoopster from America. White reporters want and hope that these players are better than they are.

Saw it firsthand happen to Keith Van Horn.

Bird was a dog, these other guys are not dogs.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Some of y'all have gone the other way now. Athleticism is very important in the NBA especially for perimeter players and the minute they lose it it doesn't look good.

The ability to explode and/or react at a freakish size is what stratifies ball players. Everyone of us could shoot 3000 jumpers and dribble through cones for 2 hours a day and we could still never run with an NBA scrub because we're not 6'7" with the reaction of a 5'7" elite athlete.

You don't understand and completely missed the point. Its not the NBA I'm talking about its the coaching at youth levels and the knock on effect of dismissing not using a good technical/skill player. As they aren't a great to super athlete in their early to mid teens when they still haven't physically matured yet. Coaches have a strong preference to athleticism at that level.

Kobe pretty much spoke on this very thread back on 2015. When he said Euro players are more skillful. Now apply what he said to this thread.

And i havent gone the other way I've always held the technique > athleticism opinion at youth level. Check my post history on this topic. I've been very consistent on this.

 

[Shadow King]

You don't understand and completely missed the point. Its not the NBA I'm talking about its the coaching at youth levels and the knock on effect of dismissing not using a good technical/skill player. As they aren't a great to super athlete in their early to mid teens when they still haven't physically matured yet. Coaches have a strong preference to athleticism at that level.

Kobe pretty much spoke on this very thread back on 2015. When he said Euro players are more skillful. Now apply what he said to this thread.

And i havent gone the other way I've always held the technique > athleticism opinion at youth level. Check my post history on this topic. I've been very consistent on this.

When I say "gone the other way" I'm talking about the discourse at large on what makes an NBA player successful, not your individual thoughts. Many people have gotten tired of athleticism being considered the baseline of what makes pro talent and have now begun downplaying it.

 

[Pure Water]

It has nothing to do with athleticisim, unless you doofuses really believe in eugenics--which actually wouldn't surprise me because the Coli tends to parrot white supremacy. There are a lot of ridiculously athletic white American men. They play sports like volleyball, lacrosse, hockey and baseball. We also see a lot of white women playing basketball.

And we see white men from Europe come in and go ham in the NBA.

IMO, its down to representation and discouragement.

This.