What is Black American Culture? (inspired by The Salon)

[K.O.N.Y]

Nope. I too use to believe AA not a good term, but as @Supper said theres no need for it to change.

And I disagree with AA's being a pan-ethnic group. Almost all AA's whether west coast, south, midwest or northeast all share a common ancestral root in the south pre-jim crow. It can be recent or very old depending on how recent they migrated out of the south. Though most non-southern AA's southern roots was during the great migration. This excludes blacks in the USA whose ancestors came to the USA post-Jim Crow i.e blacks from the Caribbean or Africa. Though who have assimilated by now. But those two black populations are very small in the USA, especially compared to the larger AA population.

So I personally disagree with AAs being a panethnic group. Almost all AA's have a common origin in the south.

exactly the south basically fueled the aa population in the north,midwest and west coast. Whatever black slave northern populous that was there must have been completely engulfed by the great migrations

As im a born and bred new Yorker that's never ever met a AA up here who didn't have grandparents or great grands from the south. Never met a black person who had complete ties to the north and only the north

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Africans aren't "black" breh.

That's news to me

That's a social distinction created in America for Americans with dark skin and African heritage.

Black in America= anyone of african descent. A look at the USA census

Race was asked differently in the Census 2000 in several other ways than previously. Most significantly, respondents were given the option of selecting one or more race categories to indicate racial identities. Data show that nearly seven million Americans identified as members of two or more races. Because of these changes, the Census 2000 data on race are not directly comparable with data from the 1990 census or earlier censuses. Use of caution is therefore recommended when interpreting changes in the racial composition of the US population over time.

The following definitions apply to the 2000 census only.[16]

• "White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, English, Scottish, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.[16]

• "Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as 'Black, African Am.' or provide written entries such as Kenyan, Nigerian, or Haitian."[16]

• "American Indian and Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment."[16]

• "Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam. It includes 'Asian Indian,' 'Chinese', 'Filipino', 'Korean', 'Japanese', 'Vietnamese', and 'Other Asian'."[16]

• "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands. It includes people who indicate their race as 'Native Hawaiian', 'Guamanian or Chamorro', 'Samoan', and 'Other Pacific Islander'."[16]

• "Some other race. Includes all other responses not included in the 'White', 'Black or African American', 'American Indian and Alaska Native', 'Asian' and 'Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander' race categories described above. Respondents providing write-in entries such as multiracial, mixed, interracial, We-Sort, or a Hispanic/Latino group (for example, Mexican, Puerto Rican, or Cuban) in the "Some other race" category are included here."[16]

• "Two or more races. People may have chosen to provide two or more races either by checking two or more race response check boxes, by providing multiple write-in responses, or by some combination of check boxes and write-in responses."[16]

Black=African American

AfroAmericans are black but not all blacks are AfroAmericans

[/QUOTE]

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Would you include creoles into the AA ethnicity? What about descendants of free blacks or descendants of black immigrants that have been here for generations?

Creoles are AA's and the black immigrants from generations ago just got absorbed into black america

 

[K.O.N.Y]

So you're saying there's a difference between "black" and " African American" culture?

black is often looked at as Race
Afram culture is ethnicity
So in a way yeah for

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Would you include creoles into the AA ethnicity?

Pre-Jim Crow? Then yeah. IMO the African American ethnic group developed during slavery and was "official" after slavery was abolished if you catch my drift. Creoles in the south fit the criteria of what I'm talking about.

What about descendants of free blacks or descendants of black immigrants that have been here for generations?

For one the majority of AA's are not descendant from them. So imo(again my opinion) they really do not fit the criteria. The thing is I personally look at that African American entity as developing during slavery in the south and becoming "official" after slavery and especially the great migration from the south. I consider the south the foundation, root and homeland of the African American ethnic group and African American culture.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

exactly the south basically fueled the aa population in the north,midwest and west coast. Whatever black slave northern populous that was there must have been completely engulfed by the great migrations

As im a born and bred new Yorker that's never ever met a AA up here who didn't have grandparents or great grands from the south. Never met a black person who had complete ties to the north and only the north

I have...they, many times will have dutch sounding surnames and are also many times part of "Black Indian" groups

 

[smokeurobinson]

wtf


Tell that to the slaves who created negro spirituals

I think you missed what I meant. You know how in Ancient Egypt they had Dynastys? And the times during those Dynastys were defined by the Pharoahs? Americas Pharaohs are presidents. Blacks in Americas lived like slaves from President 1 to President 16. That could be comparable to Black Americas Early Dynasty Period. Pre slavery til the civil rights movement is like the Old Kingdom. I feel like from the civil rights movement till the late 2009 which was the death of the most popular Blackman in the world Michael Jackson and his replacement as new most popular Blackman in the world Barack Obama.we were in our First Intermediate Period...and we are just now developing a Middle Kingdom...with a 2nd Intermediate and New Kingdom future of cultures to follow. Do you understand what I mean now?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

exactly the south basically fueled the aa population in the north,midwest and west coast. Whatever black slave northern populous that was there must have been completely engulfed by the great migrations

YEP! Said what I was saying in better words. Think of the great migration of the African American version of the out of Africa. Humanity originated in Africa and migrated out of East Africa. The spread across the world and developed their own distant cultures. This is something similar that happened with AA's. The African American ETHIC GROUP originated in the south. Then came the great migration where those blacks migrated out of the south and into different regions. Thus they developed their own unique styles and what not, but still have roots in the south. Similar to how different people around the world who have different cultures all have their roots in Africa. The father you go back all humans have roots in Africa. The father you go back nearly all AA's have roots in the south.

As im a born and bred new Yorker that's never ever met a AA up here who didn't have grandparents or great grands from the south. Never met a black person who had complete ties to the north and only the north

Interesting because I too am from NY and too am of that breed on my mothers side. I and my mother and cousins are born in NY, but my grandmother and older siblings are from North Carolina. Though they are not of the "Great Migration" generation, but came more recent around the 60s.

 

[BigMan]

Pre-Jim Crow? Then yeah. IMO the African American ethnic group developed during slavery and was "official" after slavery was abolished if you catch my drift. Creoles in the south fit the criteria of what I'm talking about.



For one the majority of AA's are not descendant from them. So imo(again my opinion) they really do not fit the criteria. The thing is I personally look at that African American entity as developing during slavery in the south and becoming "official" after slavery and especially the great migration from the south. I consider the south the foundation, root and homeland of the African American ethnic group and African American culture.

i agree with the underlined. but Creoles in Louisiana/Texas or say someone who's family were free blacks from Delaware or someone who's great grandparents came from the Bahamas might have a distinct heritage. thats why i say AA is panethnic (like Arabs) not everyone's family was picking cotton in the deep south. some were cutting sugar, some were mixed with natives, obviously most AAs have roots in the "Cotton Belt", thats why i ask if they are considered AA

 

[MeachTheMonster]

That's news to me





Black in America= anyone of african descent. A look at the USA census









AfroAmericans are black but not all black are AfroAmericans

[/QUOTE]

Your link uses the terms interchangeably.

There's absolutely no difference between the two terms

black is often looked at as Race
Afram culture is ethnicity
So in a way yeah for

No African American is a racial determination.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

i agree with the underlined. but Creoles in Louisiana/Texas or say someone who's family were free blacks from Delaware or someone who's great grandparents came from the Bahamas might have a distinct heritage. thats why i say AA is panethnic (like Arabs) not everyone's family was picking cotton in the deep south. some were cutting sugar, some were mixed with natives, obviously most AAs have roots in the "Cotton Belt", thats why i ask if they are considered AA

The reasons why creoles would be included is because they were too slaves most of them and they are from the south. But more importantly after slavery all blacks whether they worked on sugar or cotton were assimilated and were all grouped in as African-American. As for the bolded like @IllmaticDelta those types would simply have been absorbed.

But I'm starting to get why you would view AA's as a pan-ethnicity.


Edit: To also note by the time of the freeing of slaves. Areas where creoles lived were long controlled by Anglo-Americans and they creoles would have been assimilated into AA culture long before the ending of slavery. This is just my opinion.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Your link uses the terms interchangeably.

The terms are interchangable to a degree because AfroAmericans are black! The key is that not all blacks are AfroAmericans!

There's absolutely no difference between the two terms

See above

No African American is a racial determination.

It's an ethnic identification based on it's roots in race. You can't be an AfroAmerican if you're not of African descent.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity.

yes it does

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Your link uses the terms interchangeably.

The terms are interchangable to a degree because AfroAmericans are black! The key is that not all blacks are AfroAmericans!





See above




It's an ethnic identification based on it's roots in race. You can't be an AfroAmerican if you're not of African descent.





yes it does[/QUOTE]


Asian-American is in reference to an ethnicity, they come from Asia so their ethnicity/culture is Asian.

African-American is not, its another word for black/nikka/negro/colored ect.

An African Americans ethnicity is American not African, most of us have no ties to our African ancestors other than blood and skin color. There's plenty of "white" Americans with African blood but they don't share skin color with what's considered African, therefore they aren't viewed as "African American"

As I said African American is a racial distinction, not an ethnic or even ancestral distinction.

 

[Supper]

Don't have much time, but I'll just say that the slave trade and slavery in what is today the contiguous United States wasn't only the driving force behind the breakdown of many different cultures(as there's never any one "African culture" to begin with) but the melding of them together to create a new cultural continuum(that of African-Americans).

I'll just leave this here for that still a little lost on this concept.

Ethnogenesis (from Greekethnosἔθνος, "group of people, nation", and genesisγένεσις, "beginning, coming into being"; plural ethnogeneses) is a process in which a group of people acquire an ethnicity, that is, a group identity that identifies them as an ethnic group. This can originate through a process of self-identification as well as come about as the result of outside identification.

Mapping Ethnogenesis in the
Early Modern Atlantic

^^^All the major group present in the Americas during colonial times went through this process. You didn't think the "Seminole" or "Comanche" indians were Pre-Columbian tribes did you? I guess someone should inform the Seminoles & Comanches that they are actually just displaced Creeks & Shoshone who lost their "original culture". And lets not even get on Euro-American specific identities like French-Canadian, German-Texan, Pennsylvania-Dutch, Cajun, and the WASP.

I feel the need to repost for those still struggling with the concept.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Asian-American is in reference to an ethnicity, they come from Asia so their ethnicity/culture is Asian.

Asian Americans are Americans with roots in Asia

African-American is not, its another word for black/nikka/negro/colored ect.

AfroAmerican is used as the same way one uses Asian-American. The meaning straight from the AfroAmerican that coined the term

Timothy Thomas Fortune

"In Chicago on January 25, 1890 Fortune co-founded the militant National Afro-American League to right wrongs against African Americans authorized by law and sanctioned or tolerated by public opinion. The league fell apart after four years. When it was revived in Rochester, New York on September 15, 1898, it had the new name of the "National Afro-American Council", with Fortune as President. • The National Afro-American Council - the first nationwide civil rights organization in the United States. • Provided a training ground for some of the nation’s most famous civil rights leaders in the 1910s, 1920s, and beyond. • The Council lobbied actively for the passage of a federal anti-lynching law and raised funds to finance a court test against the “grandfather clause” in Louisiana. Fortune was also the leading advocate of using Afro-American to identify his people. Since they are "African in origin and American in birth", it was his argument that it most accurately defined them."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Thomas_Fortune

An African Americans ethnicity is American not African, most of us have no ties to our African ancestors other than blood and skin color.

They are Afro-Americans, exactly what the definition states

There's plenty of "white" Americans with African blood but they don't share skin color with what's considered African, therefore they aren't viewed as "African American"

African descent is the only requirement. After that, if you look "white" it's a matter of how you identify. Most "white" looking AfroAmericans self indentify/came from a long line of fair skinned self identified "AfroAmericans".

As I said African American is a racial distinction, not an ethnic or even ancestral distinction.

See the T T Fortune post