Actually, its the opposite for the Muslims.
If anything, the Muslims need to go back to the mentality of the past instead of copying their colonial and western masters.
West Papua's youth are being removed to Islamic religious schools
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Actually, its the opposite for the Muslims.
If anything, the Muslims need to go back to the mentality of the past instead of copying their colonial and western masters.
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Drugs and Kalashnikovs
mentality of the past? you mean when they interacted with and were influenced by neighbouring non Muslim cultures ?
Christian civil servants manning a Persian bureaucracy? Byzantine weaponry?
Yeah, they interacted with and actually produced stuff from and with their neighbors
All we do in the Muslim world now is TAKE, TAKE, and TAKE some more.
It's pathetic, we have bad leaders, corrupt elite, the oil money from the Najd that has spread its influence since the 70s, the western concept of seperating the deen from the dunya when the greatest inventors and thinkers were both smart in their sciences but also knew Qur'an, hadith, fiqh, etc
I assume you are typing this while living in the west?
obviously you don't practice what you preach
I assume you are typing this while living in the west?
obviously you don't practice what you preach
I live in the West of course. But what worked here doesn't mean it will work in other places.
let them go ahead and try something different I'm sure they will see progress 50 years from now
And you defeat your own message when you advocate for non-western changes in the Muslim world while you live in the west....
I keep telling you, It is impossible to mix technological advancement in the 21st century with Islam. that is the very reason why most Islamic nations are struggling but they refuse to acknowledge the obvious
let them go ahead and try something different I'm sure they will see progress 50 years from now
And you defeat your own message when you advocate for non-western changes in the Muslim world while you live in the west....
I keep telling you, It is impossible to mix technological advancement in the 21st century with Islam. that is the very reason why most Islamic nations are struggling but they refuse to acknowledge the obvious
The Muslim world is westernized. We're all westernized, the thinking is in grained in a lot of places.
I told you this in the other thread. Technology and advancement is not alien to Muslims. I'm not going to repeat myself but you're obviously blind, have a deep hatred for us, and don't really want to listen. So I'll leave it here and refer to my post in the other thread.
No you are the one blaming the West for the problems of the Muslim world.
Every argument seems to come back to "Muslims should go back to doing things like the stone ages blah blah blah"
But the fact is
Western technology is supreme.
Western education is supreme
Western medicine is supreme.
Western nations are wealthier.
Western countries tend to be world super powers from the Romans to the English to the Americans.
The western model is a proven concept which works, Islam does not.
japan was bombed after WWII, they adopted western form of everything and now they are an economic powerhouse.
Same as south Africa after decades of apartheid(which somewhat still exist on a minimal scale today)
If Japan has gone the Islamic way no way hey have this economy.
No you are the one blaming the West for the problems of the Muslim world.
Every argument seems to come back to "Muslims should go back to doing things like the stone ages blah blah blah"
But the fact is
Western technology is supreme.
Western education is supreme
Western medicine is supreme.
Western nations are wealthier.
Western countries tend to be world super powers from the Romans to the English to the Americans.
The western model is a proven concept which works, Islam does not.
japan was bombed after WWII, they adopted western form of everything and now they are an economic powerhouse.
Same as south Africa after decades of apartheid(which somewhat still exist on a minimal scale today)
If Japan has gone the Islamic way no way hey have this economy.
My friend, you are only talking the last 100 years. I'm only saying that the Western thinking of seperating religion from worldly matters is a reaction to the Church and how it did not let progress occur during the Middle Ages while the Muslim World had advanced beyond the West.
At its height the Muslim world was the most advanced.
The closest challenge in terms of technology and science was southern sung dynasty china,
but what is intriguing is that in the 12th century when the sung were at the top of the world in science and technology,
thy had a policy of encouraging immigration from the Muslim world, and employing Muslims.
by the start of the ming dynasty Muslims practically dominated all the technical fields of the government,
the first ming emperors armourer in charge of the production of canonns and muskets was muslim(a khawarizmi refugee actually), his 2 top generals and closest friends were muslims, the head of the imperial observatory was muslim as well as most of his staff.
Europe was a backwater while the Middle East and Africa had wealth and in those areas there was development of the sciences and technology. The Muslims were actually very innovative and if you study Muslim history and the golden age, you would know that.
The reason why most Muslim countries today suck is because the Muslims have become mentally weak and left the core principles of the religion i.e. we Muslims need to go back to who we are and follow our Qur'an instead of rushing trying to be like the non Muslims i.e. our colonial masters and failing with their systems for econ and politics.
Shaia is the natural law, God's manual provided for his manufactured product us.
We should ofcourse live by the manual becuase it is from the creator.
now the problem is how do we interpret this law into the various cultures and environments of the muslim lands?
People in the past did not struggle with this problem, we do because we have been all westernized and confused, even today's extremist religious scholars are unwittingly westernized.
People in the past did not find a conflict between secular and religious , the west did and they dealt with the problems of Christianity and modernity by rejecting religion and limiting the power of the church.
Once they did that they progressed.
They then conquered our lands and then our minds and exported their reasoning and thinking to us.
when alkhawarizmi was studying the science of maths, he was also a haafiz of Qur'an like all muslims scholars and men of science and he also studied hadiith and tafsiir.. The concept of secular knowledge and religious knowledge did not exist in islam it is a totally alien product.
But I'll put this back to you.
Roman empire ruled the world from 302 BC to1453
British empire began around 1583 and ruled for hundreds of years.
America has been ruling the world since WWI.
re-evaluate your assessment.
Western empires have ruled for centuries
RULED THE WORLD?
Who was ruling North Africa, Mid East areas the Romans had from the end of the 7th century until the 13th?
All the way near China?What about the Ottomans? Or AL-ANDALUS before them?
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You said a lot of things that were correct, but a lot of things that are incorrect.
The European Dark Ages is one of the misunderstood periods by average people. It was only "Dark" when compared to the Roman/Greek periods, and the Renaissance/Age of Enlightenment that came about during the Middle Ages. A lot of advancements occurred in Europe at that time, but yes, the cultural philosophical, medicinal, mathematical and scientific epicenter of the world was in Muslims lands.
Eventually they went into the Dark Ages for the same reasons Europe did: Strict interpretation of Religion.
Basically, Irish monks kept the works of the Greeks alive by keeping texts, sometimes hidden. These eventually made their way out. Muslims had access to Greek texts due to their connection to the Byzantine Empire, and the original Caliphs were very resistant to them, but eventually the Persians realized the importance of continuing these works.
The History of Math is beautiful man, it's essentially the history of human cooperation.
when I say rule the world I'm talking military and economic power house.
RULED THE WORLD?
Who was ruling North Africa, Mid East areas the Romans had from the end of the 7th century until the 13th?
What about the Ottomans? Or AL-ANDALUS before them?
No one dared to step up to the Romans during that time.
Same with America today, you can make noise but when the US military comes after you...you already know what it is
