Wealth gap between whites and African Americans has tripled over last 25 years

[theworldismine13]

Im sorry, Im dont wish to come across as insulting, but your understanding of statistics and central tendencies is remarkably incomplete.

That said, invoking low income housing in the way that you are isnt introducing a side issue, you're making it fundamental to the issue at hand --- as if to say that if low income housing werent offered, then black folk would possess substantially greater wealth as a group. Quite frankly, that's absurd given that the average wealth of black folk centers far below the poverty line.

You're using a well worn conservative canard that seeks to use soft bigotry as an explanation for wealth gaps and the lack of black achievement (blacks are lazy, lack drive, and will settle for a very basic and meager public assistance provided life), rather than the interconnected matrix of economic and social forces, which have persisted for hundreds of years, designed to keep black folk as a permanent underclass. These mechanisms and variables that have worked at the expense of black people, have been discussed throughout this thread.

In other words, public housing is an EFFECT. Not a cause. Get familiar.

i find your post disingenuous, you are telling me what i said and then arguing against the words you put on my mouth

i never suggested that public housing is the major cause of the wealth gap, i simply brought it up as a program that discourages home ownership and therefore is a factor and it does not help close the gap

the point is black people should not support government programs that do not help close the gap

 

[Rawtid]

I'm assuming you mean "if your NOT affraid....."

Let me ask you this. Foodstamps are/were available to you, what motivates you to work hard and do more than just the bare minimum to feed your family?

No, if you're afraid. You have to be income eligible to receive government assistance and the more money you make, the less you are eligible for, so what's the motivation especially if you're only qualified to work a low income job.

I've only been eligible for government assistance during times of unemployment so I had an idea of what it's like to make a decent salary and have a decent amount of discretionary income. So my motivation to work and do more than the bare minimum is so that I won't be eligible.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

What the fukk are you talking about?

You can't save money and create wealth

What I'm saying is the person making 100k can buy better real estate (asset)
And after necessaties will have more money left over to do whatever then someone spending wisely on 50k?

If someone making 100K spends 100K, they will be worse off in the long run than someone making 50K who spends 40K

I can't think of much that makes life easier than having cash on hand. Cash + savings are freedom. shyt like a big house full of shyt you don't need or a $1000/mo car note is slavery

 

[theworldismine13]

So overall the effect is negligible. Especially when you consider that of the 8.7 million people living in public housing, 48% are black. Thats 4 million out of about 38 million... and as you said yourself most of that 4 million would be renting anyway. I would go as far as to say they would all be renting. So why you want to make something that affects a little over 10% of black people as a defining issue for all of us is beyond me.

i find your analysis highly disturbing and slightly idiotic

only 10 percent of black are in jail, does that mean incarceration rates are not an important issue?

by any measure a government program that effects 10 percent of black people by definition will have an impact on the black economy overall

secondly lets say they got rid of public housing and 90 percent of the 4 million residents went back to renting, if 10% went on to get a mortgage that is 400,000 black people with real estate, and now you also have to understand that impact of public housing goes back generations, so lets say in every generation from the 1960s the same 10 percent brought mortgages and lets say every generation is every 10 years, so since 1960 that would be 5 generations and so 2 million more black people would have real estate

would that close the wealth gap, no it wouldnt, would 2 million more black with real estate be significant and more opportunity in the future, yes it would

granted this is all theoretical, but the point is 10% is nothing to dismiss, the fact that 10 percent of black people live in public housing means that public housing has to included in an analysis of black wealth and creating an economic plan even if its not the fundamental factor

 

[CrimsonTider]

If someone making 100K spends 100K, they will be worse off in the long run than someone making 50K who spends 40K

I can't think of much that makes life easier than having cash on hand. Cash + savings are freedom. shyt like a big house full of shyt you don't need or a $1000/mo car note is slavery

Freedom what? Debt? If someone has no problem paying their debts as they come due then what's the problem?

The person who makes 100k and spends 100k is living better then someone making 50k and spending 40k

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No, if you're afraid. You have to be income eligible to receive government assistance and the more money you make, the less you are eligible for, so what's the motivation especially if you're only qualified to work a low income job.

no one is passing up good jobs and better living arrangements, so they can continue to work at target and get $100 in food stamps. You really think if you offered one of these people a job making 20-30k and a decent house/apartment they'ed turn it down so they can keep working at target and living in the slums?

I've only been eligible for government assistance during times of unemployment so I had an idea of what it's like to make a decent salary and have a decent amount of discretionary income. So my motivation to work and do more than the bare minimum is so that I won't be eligible.

So why are you better than these people you claim are "afraid to do better"? You get goverment assistance everyday(in the form of education, tax relief, infrastructure, ect) yet your still motivated to do better. So we know the availability of goverment assistance alone is making people not be motivated.

Are you saying these people are just lazy unmotivated scum? And if that's the case removing gov. Assistance wouldn't change them. Right?

 

[CrimsonTider]

No, if you're afraid. You have to be income eligible to receive government assistance and the more money you make, the less you are eligible for, so what's the motivation especially if you're only qualified to work a low income job.

I've only been eligible for government assistance during times of unemployment so I had an idea of what it's like to make a decent salary and have a decent amount of discretionary income. So my motivation to work and do more than the bare minimum is so that I won't be eligible.

Why are you always harping on social welfare like its a bad thing?

I never hear you using the same arguments to slight social security?

 

[No_bammer_weed]

I've only been eligible for government assistance during times of unemployment so I had an idea of what it's like to make a decent salary and have a decent amount of discretionary income. So my motivation to work and do more than the bare minimum is so that I won't be eligible.

dont you think you're being a lil self-absorbed here? You're using yourself as complete anecdotal evidence. So because you have the resources, capacity, abilities, and understanding to stay above the poverty line that means other should as well? In addition, there havent been any events in your life that have assisted you, and promoted your success in ways that may differ from other people's experiences who havent been as fortunate?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

If someone making 100K spends 100K, they will be worse off in the long run than someone making 50K who spends 40K

I can't think of much that makes life easier than having cash on hand. Cash + savings are freedom. shyt like a big house full of shyt you don't need or a $1000/mo car note is slavery

I agree. But in the context of this conversation and what is considered "wealth" in America. The person with the big home and car note are considered more "wealthy"

To me it's an idiotic idea. Those deemed "wealthy" due to their homes and investment packages are always the first to go down in the event of an economic downturn. Those who have saved money and have cash on hand are the ones who say stable through a recession. I'd much rather live modestly and save money as opposed to spending all my money on materials or trying to amass more wealth.

 

[theworldismine13]

Freedom what? Debt? If someone has no problem paying their debts as they come due then what's the problem?

The person who makes 100k and spends 100k is living better then someone making 50k and spending 40k

you need to define what you mean by living better, because wealth is not a measure of your income, wealth is a measure of your assets

so it depends on what the money is spent, if you spend 100K on hard assets like savings accounts, real estate or securities, than you will be wealthier than a person making 50K

but if you spend 100K on perishable temporary items, then the person that spent 40K that has 10K in the bank will be wealthier even though they are not "living better"

so i think you need to define what you mean by living better first

 

[theworldismine13]

I agree. But in the context of this conversation and what is considered "wealth" in America. The person with the big home and car note are considered more "wealthy"

To me it's an idiotic idea. Those deemed "wealthy" due to their homes and investment packages are always the first to go down in the event of an economic downturn. Those who have saved money and have cash on hand are the ones who say stable through a recession. I'd much rather live modestly and save money as opposed to spending all my money on materials or trying to amass more wealth.

a big home and a big car note are 2 very different things, a home is an asset and a car note is a liability, there is nothing idiotic about how wealth is measures, and in a downtown the wealthier you are the better you survive a downturn

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

i find your analysis highly disturbing and slightly idiotic

only 10 percent of black are in jail, does that mean incarceration rates are not an important issue?

by any measure a government program that effects 10 percent of black people by definition will have an impact on the black economy overall

secondly lets say they got rid of public housing and 90 percent of the 4 million residents went back to renting, if 10% went on to get a mortgage that is 400,000 black people with real estate, and now you also have to understand that impact of public housing goes back generations, so lets say in every generation from the 1960s the same 10 percent brought mortgages and lets say every generation is every 10 years, so since 1960 that would be 5 generations and so 2 million more black people would have real estate

would that close the wealth gap, no it wouldnt, would 2 million more black with real estate be significant and more opportunity in the future, yes it would

granted this is all theoretical, but the point is 10% is nothing to dismiss, the fact that 10 percent of black people live in public housing means that public housing has to included in an analysis of black wealth and creating an economic plan even if its not the fundamental factor

This is a pretty dubious speculation, even just "theoretically", but especially when put in the context of reality

I agree that we should get out of public housing, I strongly disagree that its existence is central to the problem black people have with accumulating wealth. Even with your goofy math you are talking about 2 million people out of almost 40 million. They are outliers, not central or representative of the norm. How can the bottom 5% of a population be used to define the whole? The whole public housing central theme thing really falls apart when you consider that public housing is disappearing across the country, and many black folks are migrating from unaffordable places like NYC and DC to places like Atlanta, where we can and do buy property.

Freedom what? Debt? If someone has no problem paying their debts as they come due then what's the problem?

The person who makes 100k and spends 100k is living better then someone making 50k and spending 40k

You cant be this stupid

I agree. But in the context of this conversation and what is considered "wealth" in America. The person with the big home and car note are considered more "wealthy"

To me it's an idiotic idea. Those deemed "wealthy" due to their homes and investment packages are always the first to go down in the event of an economic downturn. Those who have saved money and have cash on hand are the ones who say stable through a recession. I'd much rather live modestly and save money as opposed to spending all my money on materials or trying to amass more wealth.

The whole idea of a home as a place to store wealth is stupid to me. I want to buy a house just so that one day I can not have that housing bill every month. I don't ever want to borrow against my house or flip it. People have the whole "house" thing fukked up.

 

[Rawtid]

Why are you always harping on social welfare like its a bad thing?

I never hear you using the same arguments to slight social security?

Because in my opinion, it is a bad thing. It's crippling. Yes, SOME use it to move beyond their circumstance but others rely on it and often continue to rely on it well into old age. That's not cool. Social Security is different than food stamps and public housing and I've never said anything bad about it. Aside from it bankrupting us...

dont you think you're being a lil self-absorbed here? You're using yourself as complete anecdotal evidence. So because you have the resources, capacity, abilities, and understanding to stay above the poverty line that means other should as well? In addition, there havent been any events in your life that have assisted you, and promoted your success in ways that may differ from other people's experiences who havent been as fortunate?

I'm not being self-absorbed. He asked me what was my motivation and I told him. I didn't have access to anything that the average black person didn't have access to. I can understand needing assistance for a few months to a year to get back on your feet, but continuous years of needing assistance to me means, there is something YOU'RE not taking advantage of.

I love black people but we are out of excuses. We consume a large amount of goods, but we don't save anything. The wealth gap is widening because we make the SAME fiscally poor decisions that our ancestors made. It's not like we don't know the outcome of those decisions.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Because in my opinion, it is a bad thing. It's crippling. Yes, SOME use it to move beyond their circumstance but others rely on it and often continue to rely on it well into old age. That's not cool. Social Security is different than food stamps and public housing and I've never said anything bad about it. Aside from it bankrupting us...



I'm not being self-absorbed. He asked me what was my motivation and I told him. I didn't have access to anything that the average black person didn't have access to. I can understand needing assistance for a few months to a year to get back on your feet, but continuous years of needing assistance to me means, there is something YOU'RE not taking advantage of.

I love black people but we are out of excuses. We consume a large amount of goods, but we don't save anything. The wealth gap is widening because we make the SAME fiscally poor decisions that our ancestors made. It's not like we don't know the outcome of those decisions.

no, both programs are the same damn thing. Social safety nets

 

[theworldismine13]

I agree that we should get out of public housing, I strongly disagree that its existence is central to the problem black people have with accumulating wealth. Even with your goofy math you are talking about 2 million people out of almost 40 million. They are outliers, not central or representative of the norm. The whole public housing central theme thing really falls apart when you consider that public housing is disappearing across the country, and many black folks are migrating from unaffordable places like NYC and DC to places like Atlanta, where we can and do buy property.

im reading my post again to make sure i wasnt crazy, i reread it and i clearly stated that public housing is not the main issue causing the wealth gap, so why are you asserting that i am saying its a central issue

im simply saying it is an issue that has to be taken into account even if its not the central issue

im totally befuddled how black people moving from dwindling public housing in expensive cities to cheaper places in the south is somehow going against my theory, it completely supports my theory that we should get rid of public housing and move to cheaper areas where we can buy property instead of living for generations in public housing we do not own that stifle our economic and individual freedom

please read my posts and respond to what i actually said not to what i said in your imagination