We voted Obama in because we thought he was a change from Bush...

[Serious]

But the issue with taking the "this isn't new" stance is that it often paints critics of Obama's current policies as johhny come lately's who have no knowledge of prior undermining of civil liberties, foreign sovereignty, and cavalier foreign policy on the part of the U.S.

I can't speak for all voices who are currently in an uproar about what is currently going on, but there have been people on both the left and the right who have been writing about surveillance issues for years and some even decades. Are there people who are simply using this event simply because they dislike Obama for rather lame reasons? Of course. That does not mean that all or even most of the criticism comes from a partisan or even a shallow place.

Mos def and the posters in question, commonly have a disdain for Obama, thus why none of their responses are truly surprising.

For the statement "Nobody was sweating them in the early years of their campaign after 9/11 happened. Meanwhile Obama has been under unrelenting sucrinity since, day 1 with little to no breathing room." to be even remotely accurate would require ignoring a long list of civil liberties pundits/writers who indeed went after Cheney/Bush as it relates to the surveillance state.

Trust I agree. But Bush didn't really come under "heavy attack" until after the deed had been done, which was well into his second term. Criticism of the "surveillance state", is actually how I came to find out about the NSA and what they do.

The reality is I've already come to accept the status quo. Trying reverse this agenda put forth seems highly unlikely at this point.

Point is, After Bush's 2nd term, when this turned chaotic, it set a stage, which every president whom succeeded his tenure, would come under immense scrutiny, from both sides of the aisle. Obama never really had a timeline, where he could just implement his own policies, with enough backing in congress.

Can't forget about the blatant racism:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc"]Mitch McConnell: Top Priority, Make Obama a One Term President - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr210]

both sides are the same thing. They just give people something to fight over to give them the illusion of choice. Maybe if we get a dem in things will change! Oh wait maybe if we get in a repub things will change! and just by mere coincidence, no matter who gets in office, our civil liberties keep eroding.

this has been obvious for decades, but u obama groupies actually thought he was ya'll savior or something. All politicians are corrupt, thats the only way to success, i wish you lames would get that through your thick skulls

 

[Chris.B]

You sound like a fool. This fukked up healthcare proposal that most doctors hate isn't an improvement, its an abomination! What the fukk are you talking about in regards to civil rights? If your referring to the gay marriage question your not very bright. And the economy isn't getting better. The stock market is getting better. And the fact that kaqs are getting mad has absolutely no bearing on economic improvement for black and brown peoples in this country. Please stop blindly following talking points and party proproganda and see the world with a clear head for a change.

The people they intended to help will be hurt the most.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

sohh happy I voted for Rocky Anderson the Gawd

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

I voted for him because I'm black.

 

[Demon]

I voted for him because I'm black.

Well... cause obama is a cac

 

[Dada]

we got sort of free health care.

We did? I've researched and written extensively on the PPACA.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

Obama is close to being a border line communist....

No he's not. He's a good capitalist.

 

[cheek100]

he walks like he can shoot ball
i respect that

+ hes better than any republican i saw in both races
but when did yall start believing politicians anyway?

 

[Type Username Here]

Now we're getting into the Toure arguments.

"The people who are criticizing this hate Obama"

"These are racist people who have racial motivations"

"This happened under Bush"



Just absolute clowns.

 

[Type Username Here]

Cool story bro, but it seems like yall are taking that statement out of context. The NSA and various other agencies have been engaging in demonic activity for years, but after, one recent update about the current extent to which America is being governed, suddenly the general public is in uproar, mad at Obama, when the previous Administration was given free reign to do "whatever deemed necessary to keep America safe".

Nah, he right man. The criticism of Bush and Cheney came later. The media gave them a free pass up until like 2005 as far as civil liberties go. Definitely throughout his first term.
.

This is what I mean about anecdotal, unsourced nonsense. These comments do nothing but show that you are either extremely bias or very young.

Maryland Communities Protest Patriot Act | Fox News

They follow 174 other communities across the country -- two others in Maryland -- that have gone on record against the act, which was passed in the weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks but which critics say has gone too far.

Symbolic Opposition to the USA Patriot Act | Mershon Center for International Security Studies | The Ohio State University

Republican National Convention Protests in NYC

NewsHour Extra: The USA Patriot Act -- February 12, 2003

Patriot Act Produces Wave of Opposition Across Nation

N.Y. City Council Passes Anti-Patriot Act Measure (washingtonpost.com)

Librarians Use Shredder to Show Opposition to New F.B.I. Powers - NYTimes.com

ACLU Acts Against Patriot Act

Here's more Bush protesting:






Here's Fiengold in 2004 Ad:





Just stop peddling this bullshyt without the proper sources.

 

[kevm3]

this has been obvious for decades, but u obama groupies actually thought he was ya'll savior or something. All politicians are corrupt, thats the only way to success, i wish you lames would get that through your thick skulls

what do you mean 'you' obama groupies? I voted for him in the first election, seen he was a snake midway through and didn't vote in the last election.

 

[Type Username Here]

what do you mean 'you' obama groupies? I voted for him in the first election, seen he was a snake midway through and didn't vote in the last election.

These clowns don't understand that.

They're so used to dismissing the arguments against him by shouting "racist", "CAC", or "Tea Bagger" that they don't understand that some of us voted or volunteered for the man's campaign cause we bought into his nonsense.

Rand Paul was right today when he said that Obama's victory in 2008 was an indictment on the Bush Administration's handling of the Wall Street, Wars and Civil Liberties violations, and Obama won and went on to continue or expand on all those fronts.

 

[kevm3]

These clowns don't understand that.

They're so used to dismissing the arguments against him by shouting "racist", "CAC", or "Tea Bagger" that they don't understand that some of us voted or volunteered for the man's campaign cause we bought into his nonsense.

Rand Paul was right today when he said that Obama's victory in 2008 was an indictment on the Bush Administration's handling of the Wall Street, Wars and Civil Liberties violations, and Obama won and went on to continue or expand on all those fronts.

it's pretty clear to all at this point that dems and republicans are just a circus to keep americans occupied with relatively trivial issues while the real agenda is accomplished in the background. What we're seeing now is merely confirmation that there is a force behind the scenes running things and that no matter who is put in, the agenda will get accomplished. obama is merely a puppet... a skilled one, but a puppet nonetheless. Then, people will think a republican will come in and fix things, but magically our rights will continue to erode. It's all a skillful game of faux opposition, but both paths will lead to the same end.

It just blows my mind man, how people are so willingly accepting of things like the recently confirmed government monitoring programs, talking about 'well if you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.' That would be fine if there was some universally agreed upon standard of what is RIGHT that was being rigorously adhered to to produce a better life for all.

When you give the government the ability to decide what is right, what is right for them often won't be what is right for the people. Monitoring societies such as China and North Korea were laughed at and called creepy, but we've achieved monitoring on a level that makes what they've been doing look like child play. The only reason there is no huge outrage is because people haven't been killed or locked up in mass due to these policies and we have enough distractions to keep the people pacified.

When I spoke on Urban warfare weapons being developed, it was for this VERY purpose. The powers in charge knew they would have resistance to what they are implementing, hence drones, sound cannons, the active denial system, mobile checkpoints, etc.

There is no force more destructive than government run amok. In fact, that's why America was given the governing structure it was-- to limit the power of government, and yet we have Americans cheerfully accepting giving the government nearly unlimited power.

 

[No1]

These clowns don't understand that.

They're so used to dismissing the arguments against him by shouting "racist", "CAC", or "Tea Bagger" that they don't understand that some of us voted or volunteered for the man's campaign cause we bought into his nonsense.

Rand Paul was right today when he said that Obama's victory in 2008 was an indictment on the Bush Administration's handling of the Wall Street, Wars and Civil Liberties violations, and Obama won and went on to continue or expand on all those fronts.

This is why we have an issue, calling people like me and @Serious "idiots" or "clowns" just because you disagree with us is why you'll always be that childish kid in the corner of the room pouting. You definitely needed to take heed of my last, and longer post in this thread. The people you call "heroes" aside from this guy who leaked the information, do not argue like you, they do not synthesize information like you and they do not think that copying and pasting a bunch of links without actual in-depth analysis and an acknowledgment of the broad strokes of your own arguments and its weaknesses is a way to argue. The Glenn Greenwalds are trained lawyers, they know how to make arguments, and they understand the importance of forming it.

You mistake cumulative information for making a legitimate point. What's hilarious, is that you failed to recognize the people you've been dapping up all day are agreeing with me. No one said, that the critiques are because Obama's black entirely or even mostly, and I didn't even address such an angle, but you're so far up your own ass that all you can see is your own opinion and your own perception of what was said, instead of what was actually said. In what reality, does the fact that you posted up a link to an Iraq War protest video demonstrate that most of the media gave Bush a pass as he overextended, in what reality do any of your links reflect the general nature of what happened.....somehow you think linking to information that you don't connect and that doesn't make your point is superior to actually analyzing a situation, albeit without linking. If you want I could go search through my old college books next week and link you to actual books that breakdown the media during the early Bush administration. For you to even sit here and insinuate in any capacity that most of the mainstream media did not fail to check the Bush administration in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 to any substantial degree speaks to your level of maturity. Some things are so within the sphere of common knowledge (admitted by media personalities themselves) that no links need to be provided.

This is how you ruin EVERY, SINGLE, DEBATE. EVERY ONE OF THEM. What you have here, is me, Serious and ogc and others coming together and saying that despite some biases and some historical inaccuracies that this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and that the media is correct in calling it out...this is where we are--a consensus that this is wrong, and yet you felt the need to come in with your pre-bookmarked links that you have gathered throughout your travels across the e-debating sphere that you think are generally applicable to every situation and try to prove a pointless point. A point so frivolous in the greater scheme of the debate that you want to happen that I don't know why you made it. Congratulations, you did it again. You found a way to argue about something unsubstantial, but at least a couple of conspiracy theorists dapped you up on the way.