We are living in a world of illusion

[MMS]

anyways, a question I’ve been meaning to ask you:

do you believe Muhammad is a prophet from God (the God you believe in) and why or why not?

I think prophets are known by their fruits so if someone picks up a quran and becomes a friend of God and learn to be god ward then it is good fruit

but if the fruit is to devour other fruit and bring submission to god by force then the fruit is a devouring one

Iblis - Wikipedia

Theology (Kalām) discusses Iblis' role in the Quran and matters of free-will. Some, especially the Muʿtazila, emphasize free-will and that Iblis freely choose to disobey. Others assert that Iblis was predestined by God to disobey.[17] By that, God shows his entire spectrum of attributes (for example; his wiliness) in the Quran, but also teaches humankind the consequences of sin and disobedience. Al-Damiri reports, most mufassir do not regard disobedience alone to be the reason for Iblis' punishment, but attributing injustice to God by objecting God's order.[18]

According to most scholars, Iblis is a mere creature and thus cannot be the cause or creator of evil in the world; in his function as Satan, he is seen only as a tempter who takes advantage of humanity's weaknesses and self-centeredness and leads them away from God's path.[19][20] The existence of evil has been created by God himself.

Quran[edit]
Iblis is mentioned 11 times in the Quran by name, nine times related to his refusal against God's command to prostrate himself before Adam. The term Shaytan is more prevalent, although Iblis is sometimes referred to as Shaytan; the terms are not interchangeable. The different fragments of Iblis's story are scattered across the Quran. In the aggregate, the story can be summarised as follows:[21]

When God created Adam, He ordered all the angels to bow before the new creation. All of the angels bowed down, but Iblis refused to do so. He argued that since he was created from fire, he is superior to humans, who were made from clay-mud, and that he should not prostrate himself before Adam.[22] As punishment for his haughtiness, God banished Iblis from heaven and condemned him to hell. Later, Iblis requested the ability to try to mislead Adam and his descendants. God granted his request but also warned him that he would have no power over God's servants.[23]

consider this bolded statement...if it's true then by rule gods' creations should be able to be as gods and create both good and evil. As surely whatever God is man should aspire to. (See Genesis 3 )

subsequently, the children of Islam are under this paradigm. So I would say to a Muslim: My God is utterly Good Mashallah

@Slaimon Khan Shah pbuh

 

[DoubleClutch]

consider this bolded statement...if it's true then by rule gods' creations should be able to be as gods and create both good and evil. As surely whatever God is man should aspire to. (See Genesis 3 )

sounds a lot like what satan said to Eve in the garden of Eden

I’ll take that as a yes.

Giving a false prophet credit for Gods work to fit a narrative that what the devil does is all part of Gods plan is a weird way to validate an entire religion that’s done more to lead people away from God than the to him

 

[MMS]

sounds a lot like what satan said to Eve in the garden of Eden

I’ll take that as a yes.

Giving a false prophet credit for Gods work to fit a narrative that what the devil does is all part of Gods plan is a weird way to validate an entire religion that’s done more to lead people away from God than the to him

as Ive said to you before, the serpent is the tongue

whos tongue is the question you gotta break down your preestablished understanding of that page

as far as satan and devil and adversaries....its all a trap. All is of God. Remember when I broke down Job for you? God sent Satan to him to take everything but his life. Which means the Lord of Hosts is a willing participant in Gods will

take that as you will

The tree of "the knowledge of good and evil" can actively be rejected. As I've implied the fool with hindsight is greater than the supposed wise man of foresight

Isaiah 44:6-8

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

 

[DoubleClutch]

as Ive said to you before, the serpent is the tongue

whos tongue is the question you gotta break down your preestablished understanding of that page

as far as satan and devil and adversaries....its all a trap. All is of God. Remember when I broke down Job for you? God sent Satan to him to take everything but his life. Which means the Lord of Hosts is a willing participant in Gods will

take that as you will

The tree of "the knowledge of good and evil" can actively be rejected. As I've implied the fool with hindsight is greater than the supposed wise man of foresight

Isaiah 44:6-8

nope. That’s like saying God causes all the bad things to happen on earth

anyways, it’s interesting how all Ancient “Arab” or people from North East African/Levant who claim to be descendants of Ishmael and their religions link back to Egyptian Gods who represent Lunar/Moon worship

Gods and Worship

these people of course would later be conquered and adopt Christianity only to later reject Jesus divinity and develop Islam, with basically a Jewish/Christian/pagan Arab hybrid identity

Kingdoms of the Arabs - Nabataea / Nabatu

because they never completely lost their “Arab” culture/faith (even though idols were destroyed) they ultimately end up worshiping the same imaginary pagan Gods under a slightly new Name “Allah” and borrowed concept (god is 1) from Judaism.

nothing too far different from religious syncretism we see happen throughout history even today

But I guess in the umbrella of Abrahmic/African Egyptian/Greek religions you can all is of God..... if you consider the devil to be God and Yaweh/the “Jewish” God from the Torah to be “evil” and
in that case
the true devil

But that still doesn’t explain Jesus?

And then we’re back at square one with the

Marcionism

: the doctrinal system of a sect of the second and third centuries a.d. accepting some parts of the New Testament but denying Christ's corporality and humanity and condemning the Creator God of the Old Testament.

which also predated Islam..... and whatever you believe

notice a trend?



It would make sense that the devil (if he exists) would try to trick man into thinking that he is God and get people to worship him (if not idols).

Or much worse:

Convince man that God and the Devil are one

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch sounds like you have a personal problem with Muslims and 5%ers

Jesus tells us to forgive and love our enemies


IMO I’ve been clear, it’s you who seems to project a lingering anguish over belief and making sense of your religious bigotry (don’t feel surprised or ashamed, as many white influenced religions do. The scribes and doctorers project their sins into their works)

from your own words: you appear to believe stronger in the devil than the god of your fathers reread your post and ask “why”

your tongue and my tongue are both serpents you see


Maybe you should read into Zoroastrianism it has an established boogie man to blame

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch

Isaiah 45:4-11

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

rather than fighting with muslims, you should fight to open your bible

Isaiah 46:25-31

25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the Lord, and my judgment is passed over from my God?

28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

 

[DoubleClutch]

@DoubleClutch sounds like you have a personal problem with Muslims and 5%ers

Jesus tells us to forgive and love our enemies


IMO I’ve been clear, it’s you who seems to project a lingering anguish over belief and making sense of your religious bigotry (don’t feel surprised or ashamed, as many white influenced religions do. The scribes and doctorers project their sins into their works)

from your own words: you appear to believe stronger in the devil than the god of your fathers reread your post and ask “why”

your tongue and my tongue are both serpents you see


Maybe you should read into Zoroastrianism it has an established boogie man to blame

Jesus also was crucified cause he confronted and exposed the Jewish leaders hypocrisy and threatened the power structure

he was no hippy talking “peace and love” when it came to God

if you truly “love your enemies” you’ll hate to see them doing wrong and believing lies

I have a personal problem with the teachings of Islam not Muslims. I respect Muslims

Confronting Islam is just a means to prove my point to you and it seems to be working

that said, I have a problem with all lies especially those being told about history and Jesus

these same lies you are endorsing while claiming to be Christian.

if you had a firm belief something to be true you’d also defend it but you accept any opposing argument it seems and try to find the truth in it.

that’s the difference between me and you

But for the most part it just annoys me that others continue believing it blindly especially the educated people like I find on this forum

at the end of the day I’m not really intending to post direct responses to you to “win” a debate. It seems your mind is already made up

but anyone else reading might gain something from my post

 

[MMS]

Jesus also was crucified cause he confronted and exposed the Jewish leaders hypocrisy and threatened the power structure

he was no hippy talking “peace and love” when it came to God

if you truly “love your enemies” you’ll hate to see them doing wrong and believing lies

I have a personal problem with the teachings of Islam not Muslims. I respect Muslims

Confronting Islam is just a means to prove my point to you and it seems to be working

that said, I have a problem with all lies especially those being told about history and Jesus

these same lies you are endorsing while claiming to be Christian.

if you had a firm belief something to be true you’d also defend it but you accept any opposing argument it seems and try to find the truth in it.

that’s the difference between me and you

But for the most part it just annoys me that others continue believing it blindly especially the educated people like I find on this forum

at the end of the day I’m not really intending to post direct responses to you to “win” a debate. It seems your mind is already made up

but anyone else reading might gain something from my post

it’s no worries

but remember scripture “satan will deceive the whole world…”

I’ve said numerous times the serpent is the tongue

the written word is like seed, but the spoken word has power. God doesn’t rest

truly meditate on that

Also, Jesus didnt just threaten, he destroyed the power structure. Imagine a world where a union of priests dictate all religious truth

that nimrod in the idol shop midrash has so much hidden truth...yet describes a neverending problem

 

[DoubleClutch]

it’s no worries

but remember scripture “satan will deceive the whole world…”

I’ve said numerous times the serpent is the tongue

the written word is like seed, but the spoken word has power. God doesn’t rest

truly meditate on that

Also, Jesus didnt just threaten, he destroyed the power structure. Imagine a world where a union of priests dictate all religious truth

that nimrod in the idol shop midrash has so much hidden truth...yet describes a neverending problem

Seems like you believe all religion is just some never ending battle royal of Gods/Idols

Just admit it. This is your view on God:

Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεοῦ (henos theou) 'of one god') is the worship of a single, supreme god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other lower deities.[1][2]Friedrich Schelling (1775–1854) coined the word, and Friedrich Welcker (1784–1868) used it to depict primitive monotheism among ancient Greeks.[3]

On top of that I’m assuming you believe

ATEN = GOD

Akhenaten = Moses/Jesus 1.0

Atenism = Judaism

there’s a few obvious problems with this but I don’t wanna argue

You probably also think the Egyptians/Egypt were Gods original “chosen people” and basically Gods chosen are whoever’s civilization/culture is “winning” at the time

Well, who are the “chosen people” currently then? Cause nobody today can seem to agree on this

 

[MMS]

Seems like you believe all religion is just some never ending battle royal of Gods/Idols

Just admit it. This is your view on God:

Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεοῦ (henos theou) 'of one god') is the worship of a single, supreme god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other lower deities.[1][2]Friedrich Schelling (1775–1854) coined the word, and Friedrich Welcker (1784–1868) used it to depict primitive monotheism among ancient Greeks.[3]

On top of that I’m assuming you believe

ATEN = GOD

Akhenaten = Moses/Jesus 1.0

Atenism = Judaism

there’s a few obvious problems with this but I don’t wanna argue

You probably also think the Egyptians/Egypt were Gods original “chosen people” and basically Gods chosen are whoever’s civilization/culture is “winning” at the time

Well, who are the “chosen people” currently then? Cause nobody today can seem to agree on this

I think you limit God and that makes your beliefs in God limited

I’m not so arrogant to do such a thing

You assume to much and should study and meditate more on the OT since it seems to be confusing your ideas

without understanding Hebrew you are unable to see the full narrative coming out of Egypt (coping)

reread Isaiah 19 the idols of Egypt are tottering

Spoiler

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappen...are-humping-a-python-says-biologist-1.4962815

reread the iconography of Heh again

Like the other concepts in the Ogdoad, his male form was often depicted as a frog, or a frog-headed human, and his female form as a snake or snake-headed human.

Renenutet - Wikipedia
hindsight
We are living in a world of illusion

John 3:11-21

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch

We are living in a world of illusion

two points is all it takes to define a dimension

"One jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

if reality was spoken into existence, imagine the power of just one letter

this thread is no ordinary thread

 

[Ziggiy]

 

[Greenhornet]

the world and life isnt as complex as people pretend it is
everything attached to it, are twists people have created to make order, or sense of what they fear
nothing in the actual construct of "life as we know it" is applicable to actual life and death
some things were made to create order and some to create power
but in a grand sense, none of it matters or works forever...because power and order constantly change

if you never heard about anything you would still live and die in extraordinary ways ... for better or worse, it all depends on situation even till this day situation and awareness still tip the scale of life as we know it
indoctrination and myths dont change, but only limit what is possible, for better or worse.


we've seen even more recently the obvious that people have no point or clue whats going on in high numbers, so controlling them or freeing them can have positive and negative effects, both ways. But what is true, is that any control or cult mentality breeds a struggle for power and violence over indifference. Which is counterintuitive to the whole point. As to illusion, 1000 years from now we will create more illusions to control more scenarios... that's just how it always is. More choice equals more illusion. Its a struggle for power and people yearning for direction and meaning. Its so dire that people will even push illusion to death, to control your thoughts beyond reality. Nobody that was into one thing on earth, that is deceased... is still what they were on earth. It simply doesnt exist anymore

 

[MMS]

the world and life isnt as complex as people pretend it is
everything attached to it, are twists people have created to make order, or sense of what they fear
nothing in the actual construct of "life as we know it" is applicable to actual life and death
some things were made to create order and some to create power
but in a grand sense, none of it matters or works forever...because power and order constantly change

if you never heard about anything you would still live and die in extraordinary ways ... for better or worse, it all depends on situation even till this day situation and awareness still tip the scale of life as we know it
indoctrination and myths dont change, but only limit what is possible, for better or worse.


we've seen even more recently the obvious that people have no point or clue whats going on in high numbers, so controlling them or freeing them can have positive and negative effects, both ways. But what is true, is that any control or cult mentality breeds a struggle for power and violence over indifference. Which is counterintuitive to the whole point. As to illusion, 1000 years from now we will create more illusions to control more scenarios... that's just how it always is. More choice equals more illusion. Its a struggle for power and people yearning for direction and meaning. Its so dire that people will even push illusion to death, to control your thoughts beyond reality. Nobody that was into one thing on earth, that is deceased... is still what they were on earth. It simply doesnt exist anymore

great wisdom. You touched on what I've been trying to get across to multiple people in here. You can't condemn or bless someone truly via paper and ink. If you say you needed these things to truly prosper..then we would be born with it

but in reality, the only things we are born into are our mothers (and maybe fathers) as well as the earth, sun moon and stars etc...a person can look up and try to make sense of what they see in front of them, or they can look at what's in front them and make sense of what they see up... look all over any faith and this paradigm is true: "How can I make sense of what I perceive?"

the gift of the lord is saying "How can I perceive when I make sense?"

this is why i tell people to meditate on the first page of the bible and consider everything else as the "residue" of it

the true center of the spiral

 

[Sugar]

.