WalMart Destroys Jobs, Yes, But The Benefits Go To Consumers

Slystallion

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Costco FTW
makes profit while treating their employees with dignity :ohhh::shaq::banderas:

costco has a subscription model as a source of revenue that wal mart does not...but kudos to costco for actually giving up profits in the short term to actually treat the workers as an asset that improves customer service and the environment and ultimately become more profitable in the long term
 

tmonster

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costco has a subscription model as a source of revenue that wal mart does not...but kudos to costco for actually giving up profits in the short term to actually treat the workers as an asset that improves customer service and the environment and ultimately become more profitable in the long term

50 bucks a year?
the subscription ain't shyt, trust me and BJ's has a subscription too and AFAIK they don't treat their employees anywhere near as good.

I left BJ's to go to costco exactly because of how they treat their employees

I really had joined costco first over over 10 years ago but a fw years back a BJ's was built closer to me so I decided to drop by and then the convenience got me to to stay there for a year or so. but after looking at what was happening with the minimum wage issue and taking some time to think about it, I decided to return to Costo. sure it's a a little extra drive to get there compared to costo and costco does not have those navel oranges I love so much, but we should all acrifice a littl bit for the greater good. It dawned on me recently, when I rejoined, that many of the employees I saw there 10 years ago are still there today and I really like that. They seem to genuinely like their job too, I have never had a bad interaction with a costco employee.
 

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@DEAD7 It's an interesting point that he's making though ... or at least what I took from it. Here's what I think his accessment is: Wal-mart provides low-wage jobs in addition to low cost goods and services. Consumers, when given the choice, choose to buy these slightly lower cost / lower quality goods. In response to this, businesses produce more of the lower quality goods to keep up with demand, and as a result, there is also more need for these low wage jobs... Ultimately, fewer people can even afford the higher quality goods, because many of them have a small income ... etc....

I think the question is, how do we prevent this cycle of with vast underemployment and huge wealth disparity between social classes? And... what I think you're asking ... is corporatism a net "good" thing for society?
No corporatism, is one of the most destructive govt. creations today... I'm asking if Walmart is a net "good" thing.

...and would removing walmart be a net benefit to the black community.
 

tmonster

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No corporatism, is one of the most destructive govt. creations today... I'm asking if Walmart is a net "good" thing.
...and would removing walmart be a net benefit to the black community.

why do you keep separating the government from the corporation as if they are not mutual externalities...


PVpFY.jpg
 

DEAD7

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why do you keep separating the government from the corporation as if they are not mutual externalities..
1- Because they are govt. created....:skip: Govt. creating something and then getting you to blame their creation instead of them is one of the slickest moves ever pulled :russ:

2- Only one side of the coin is beholden to "we the people". If the same person jumps back and forth, he is only beholden to us during the time when he is in office. Shame on us for not holding him/them accountable.

Now if you want to say they are one in the same and we need to rid our country of it, thats a totally different conversation.:ehh: But something tells me you dont want to rid us of govt. just this thing it has created...






:umad: You want to keep the focus on the players and not the fukked game govt. has created, and is running.
 

bsmooth

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@DEAD7 It's an interesting point that he's making though ... or at least what I took from it. Here's what I think his accessment is: Wal-mart provides low-wage jobs in addition to low cost goods and services. Consumers, when given the choice, choose to buy these slightly lower cost / lower quality goods. In response to this, businesses produce more of the lower quality goods to keep up with demand, and as a result, there is also more need for these low wage jobs... Ultimately, fewer people can even afford the higher quality goods, because many of them have a small income ... etc....

Think of it like this

Scenario A: 100 people buy a $10 shirt (100*$10=$1000) and 20 people buy a $50 shirt (20*$50=$1000) = 120 people spending $2000

Scenario B : 60 people buy a $10 shirt (60*$10=$1000) and 60 people buy a $50 shirt (60*$50=$3000) = 120 people spending $3600


Obviously that is a very rudimentary example but is that really savings or are people just having to buy inferior stuff? Then go beyond that, why is that product cheaper? Could it be because policies are in place which allow corporations to exploit foreign workers? This leads to a loss of small businesses who don't have that global network of exploitation and other well paying jobs in manufacturing and other industries domestically. Oh look, more people to work for minimum wage and having to spend their money at Wal-Mart.

The middle-class is being destroyed and income inequality continues to increase
 

Ohene

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costco has a subscription model as a source of revenue that wal mart does not...but kudos to costco for actually giving up profits in the short term to actually treat the workers as an asset that improves customer service and the environment and ultimately become more profitable in the long term
ummm..do you realize Walmart's profit margin is almost double Costco's? Thats no excuse
 

DEAD7

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Think of it like this

Scenario A: 100 people buy a $10 shirt (100*$10=$1000) and 20 people buy a $50 shirt (20*$50=$1000) = 120 people spending $2000

Scenario B : 60 people buy a $10 shirt (60*$10=$1000) and 60 people buy a $50 shirt (60*$50=$3000) = 120 people spending $3600


Obviously that is a very rudimentary example but is that really savings or are people just having to buy inferior stuff? Then go beyond that, why is that product cheaper? Could it be because policies are in place which allow corporations to exploit foreign workers? This leads to a loss of small businesses who don't have that global network of exploitation and other well paying jobs in manufacturing and other industries domestically. Oh look, more people to work for minimum wage and having to spend their money at Wal-Mart.

The middle-class is being destroyed and income inequality continues to increase

Im not sure what you are suggesting...:patrice:

do you want the superior products that are out of the price range of many consumers to be the only option?
As far as job loss, I'd like to see the estimated number of jobs these mom and pop stores provide(particularly to blacks), then compare those numbers to walmart. Because I believe we are actually campaigning against jobs when we attack walmart.:sadcam:

As far as the policies in place that are being exploited by walmart, I am wholeheartedly against them. I just dont think its the fault of the players, but those setting the f*cked up rules and refereeing the game, Government. Only by accepting the ridiculous(and far to common) notion that walmart and congress are one and the same, can you point the finger at walmart.
 

tmonster

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1- Because they are govt. created....:skip: Govt. creating something
lol-duck.gif

this logic is mildly retarded: they are the same people


2- Only one side of the coin is beholden to "we the people". If the same person jumps back and forth, he is only beholden to us during the time when he is in office.

:ohhh:I want to get this straight
I can spend my corporate billions to lie to the people and cover my agenda in order to get into public office and make rules to help my future corporate self and no one is to blame but the people.
Must be nice to live in Narnia
H2QqtJ.gif

This type of head up your ass circular reasoning can only come from libertarianism :bryan:

Subvert the law then claim the law as their excuse and protection

This ideology is Darwinian as long as the competitive scale is rigged in its favor
in essence it has no problem with lies and lawlessness.
 
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Nascimento

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This is all shrouded in mystery for Dead7 because he's either dumb as bricks or is just continuing his agenda av absolving corporations from their policies, likely it's a mix of both.

You study Walmart business model and practices it is straightforward to conclude through logical reasoning that wealth is generated in two places: shareholders and foreign workers. This is not rocket sciency stuff to comprehend.

Whether walmart is great or bad depends where you put the boundary conditions. If you care about American society's wellbeing then maybe it's not a such a fantastic idea to kill local production, manufacturing, knowledge of products and how to service them, and side effects of killing local legal and accounting services etc. Pointing at walmart as a job creator is the height of stupidity.

Maybe you don't care about that stuff, and maybe you don't mind subsidizing raising foreign people's standard of living at the expense of US economy. I'll say this tho, I'm pretty sure Sam Walton is turning in his grave to see what that corporation has turned into.
 

DEAD7

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they are the same people.
If you can see no distinction(which you obviously cant) between what a man does privately and what he does in your service, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As much as you want politicians to be beholden to you before or after they leave office, they aren't :yeshrug:

But even losing your warped perspective on reality, people should be protesting govt. not walmart, after all policies are passed in congress, not the book section at walmart :stopitslime:
 

DEAD7

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This is all shrouded in mystery for Dead7 because he's either dumb as bricks or is just continuing his agenda av absolving corporations from their policies, likely it's a mix of both.

You study Walmart business model and practices it is straightforward to conclude through logical reasoning that wealth is generated in two places: shareholders and foreign workers. This is not rocket sciency stuff to comprehend.

Whether walmart is great or bad depends where you put the boundary conditions. If you care about American society's wellbeing then maybe it's not a such a fantastic idea to kill local production, manufacturing, knowledge of products and how to service them, and side effects of killing local legal and accounting services etc. Pointing at walmart as a job creator is the height of stupidity.

Maybe you don't care about that stuff, and maybe you don't mind subsidizing raising foreign people's standard of living at the expense of US economy. I'll say this tho, I'm pretty sure Sam Walton is turning in his grave to see what that corporation has turned into.

So you are in fact suggesting that we would be better without the worlds leading employer.:ohhh::wow:


Cool, do you have any evidence? :ld:
 

Poppa_Dock

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Walmart ain't perfect, but this is a very interesting argument:



http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/29/give_sam_walton_the_nobel_prize







THE OPTIMIST
Give Sam Walton the Nobel Prize
Why Walmart may have done more for the poor than any business in American history.
walmart143310151.jpg

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There is much to dislike about Walmart: the union-busting employee rules, putting mom-and-pop grocery stores out of business, all that plastic garbage it sells us, the shady business scandals. It's the mortal enemy of locavores, the big bad box store that environmentalists and community organizers demonize. But for all its manifold offenses, Walmart may have done more for poor consumers in the United States, and around the world, than any other business in American history.

The world's largest retailer, Walmart shrugs off the controversy for a simple reason: The stuff it sells is cheap. Beyond its immense buying power (which sucks profit margins from suppliers), its incredibly efficient logistics systems and sourcing from low-wage foreign labor allow Walmart to drive down the cost of making and shipping many of its products.And Walmart is only the most visible example of a far bigger phenomenon: Globally, even in places thousands of miles from the nearest blue-shirted greeter, more efficient production and transportation are reducing the prices of many of the basic goods purchased by the world's poorest people. If that's rapacious, Walmart-style capitalism, let's have more!

More than 1 billion people still live in the borderlands of absolute deprivation, scraping by on less than $1.25 a day. Nevertheless, many have more access to goods and services than they did only a few years ago (even if they're not yet buying their cassava at the Ouagadougou Walmart). That's in part because companies around the world have figured out how to make and ship the stuff that poor people want at lower cost, which makes lives better. Call it the global Walmart effect.

There are two ways to help poor people buy more of what they need. One is to help them make more money. The other is to make the money they have go further. And Walmart has proved incredibly adept at that second approach. Take food, for instance. Walmart is the world's biggest food retailer, and it offers foods at prices considerably lower than those at traditional supermarkets -- as much as 25 percent lower, according to economists Jerry Hausman and Ephraim Leibtag. Factor in all the other stuff it sells, and Walmart's overall impact on its shoppers' spending power is even greater.

Walmart's low prices come in part from relying on efficient production in developing countries. Of course it isn't just Walmart's procurement agents who are buying cheap stuff from Asia; pretty much the whole world is, including retailers from Bangalore to Bangui. That's because manufacturers in China, India, and elsewhere have become particularly adept at producing low-cost versions of goods demanded by "bottom of the pyramid" consumers -- otherwise known as the world's poorest people.

Think of the mobile phone. There are about 6 billion subscribers worldwide -- 86 out of every 100 people on the planet. And many of them are texting and calling on Chinese-made devices. China produced more than 1 billion mobile phones in 2012 alone. But it's not just telephones. China manufactures as many as four out of five of the world's bicycles, and it's the leading maker of penicillin, producing more than 50 percent of the global supply. A whole range of goods purchased by some of the planet's poorest people are now made at low cost in the Middle Kingdom.

What about India? A study found that generic companies based in Indiasupplied 53 percent of the antiretroviral drugs to treat HIV in sub-Saharan Africa from 2004 to 2006. In fact, one-third of Indian drug exports went to sub-Saharan Africa between 1999 and 2006. That really matters when World Health Organization estimates suggest public expenditure on drugs in that region averages below $10 per person each year. It also has a knock-on effect: Recent analysis by researchers Tamara Hafner and David Popp argues that African imports of antibiotics and other drugs from India and China reduce the price of identical drugs imported from high-income countries, suggesting fiercer competition is reducing costs.

The generics effect is widespread: Basically, the things poor people want appear to be dropping in price faster than the stuff rich people want. It may even be that the bottom of the pyramid is benefiting from lower prices more than the luxury-buying elite. (That's not well reflected in global income statistics because the standard price indices used to construct these metrics are weighted toward luxury goods -- fancy cars and granite countertops, not bicycles and plastic sheeting.) In effect, the world's poor people are still very poor, but they aren't quite as poor as the stats would indicate.

That helps explain why many of the world's most destitute people own more stuff than they used to. Take Madagascar, a very poor country that has technically been getting poorer over time. Between 1992 and 2009, the country's real GDP per person fell from $843 to $753. But the percentage of households with a phone climbed from less than 1 percent to 28 percent, the proportion with a motorbike climbed from 4 percent to 22 percent, and the percentage with a television increased from 7 percent to 18 percent. People in Madagascar, as well as in much of the rest of the developing world, are living better and longer with more possessions to their name. That's true even if, officially, they are as poor as they've ever been.And Madagascar doesn't even have a Walmart -- yet.

Still, for all the "everyday low prices," whenever a new Walmart opens, local competitors really are often forced to shutter their doors. Imagine that happening on a global scale. Harvard University economist Dani Rodrik, for one, worries that Africa and Latin America are seeing their manufacturing sectors shrink, perhaps in part because East Asia has taken most of the global low-end manufacturing opportunities. And that may leave the rest of the developing world looking in vain for that first step up on the ladder to industrialization.

That's a problem, to be sure, but one that should, in theory, solve itself. As China gets richer, labor will inevitably get more expensive and factories will migrate. Some already have -- to places like Vietnam and Indonesia.And if retailers like Walmart continue to seek the cheapest, most efficient suppliers and manufacturers, those Asian production centers will eventually shift to Africa in search of cheap labor.That may take decades. But in the meantime, China's efficiency means that poor people's scarce resources can go a little bit further -- which is enough to put a grin on even the most dejected round, yellow smiley face.



:ld: :lupe:
this is kind of a dummy opinion though. For one walmarts food is disgusting and nobody should be eating it.... They clearly get most of that stuff from china or the cheapest place possible. Half of what they sell is microwavable fake food that is probably ground up random pieces of flesh/bone etc. Nobody should be eating it. Their fresh food section is just a bunch of processed meat. They import all this questionable food with non english packaging that people keep finding plastic in and shyt. Lots of the other things they sell that are cheap, like household items etc. can be found at the same price in other stores. I don't get this big thing about wall mart :manny: it treats employees like every other company and it's prices aren't that incredible and it's food is nasty, their clothes are terrible etc. I can get cheap socks. brita filters and tupperware all over the place the same price as wall mart.
 
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