VOTE: Do you think the US government is ineffective because of incompetence, greed,or maliciousness?

[Type Username Here]

in your opinion what is its "intended" job?

To keep certain groups wealthy and centralize power in non-elected people of influence/wealth. To keep the status quo and economic system marching along. To slowly refine these systems of control to minimize an uprising or economic-strike.

In my opinion, I honestly believe that programs like the NSA programs will be used to stop the enemies of the US, but they won't be Muslims with bombs or foreign officials, they'll be you. If you think I'm bullshytting, you're more than welcome to read about the FBI and Dept of Homeland security effort and assistance to stomp out the Occupy protests:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti.../nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy

Why do you think they did this with Occupy and not the Tea Party?

 

[ryshy]

yes, lets "replace" the government..........

just start a resistance like in egypt.............

id rather b controlled than dead

 

[Shogun]

greed which breeds malice

 

[ryshy]

greed and incompetience

 

[ryshy]

the government doesnt want to fukk over anyone out of just hate, they want to maximize profit, which often involves taking advantage of people and doing things that could be seen as malicious

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

anal rape on a global scale.

 

[acri1]

Greed and Malice:

The govt could feed and house the homeless but it doesn't

And so much more....

Well, to do that kind of thing, the govt would have to raise taxes. And you're average right-wing type would start whining about "handouts" and how their taxes shouldn't be raised to pay for people who don't "want" to work and whatnot. So yeah, the govt could do a lot of these types of things, but a lot of people don't want it to.

So while I'm not excusing the government for it's BS, I feel like a lot of people need to look at the responsibility they themselves have for this state of affairs.

 

[HoloGraphic]

interesting comment...

so when they move out the military, then what

Let's hope you ready to buss these guns
What you think these rappers talking about?

Seriously though. We all wake up on the same day. They are slowly tightening the grip on the populace as we allow them too. Enough of the population is aware and spreading the message. But the majority is too scared to acknowledge what is really going on, its realizing you invested time money and effort into the American Dream and you JUST woke up.

Your literally stepping out of a whole world you thought was one way and you have to readjust and rediscover a new way of life. Exactly like Plato's Cave, just like the Matrix.

The Average, in the back of their mind lives with this fear, but as long as its over seas the government will take care of it and they can go back to their insignificant lives, dreaming of working towards a future the government set up for them, which does not exist. While "real" people realize life is what YOU make it. Those who are content with the system as is are so afraid that their government (in fact, the system of POWER itself)is the actual enemy they reject any such notion.

The trick is to open a sunroof in Plato's Cave. That's why we love entertainment and successful people. They show us that despite the system in place, we have an actual chance for personal success and to be the best we can be.


So the real question is, what do we do in the meantime, if or before they roll the military out?
Firstly,I have trust and faith in American patriotism. I think there would be dissent within the military if it was ever turned against their own people. But that's another topic, in and of itself. (Consider the sexual harassment happening in the military and Obama's lack of follow up)


We have to understand firstly, that its all about public influence, power and opinion. What they do is they first, stir up fear, then take action. Some terrible thing happens in the news, then they change the laws. Read Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper. Silent wars, are fought with situations instead of "weapons". Example in the wake of all the school shooting, we know have armed teachers at schools....
While this may seem all tinfoil hat, just look at America post 9/11 till now. Tragedy, fear, panic, change the laws.

But they have to do it in ways we accept to avoid rioting. Once they roll the military out against Americans, without a just enough reason, and nothing short of an actual revolution will be the only just reason, then its all FUBAR. But by time there IS a revolution or revolutionary sentiment is at the boiling point, they will probably leave the country.....to China.

All the average person can and should do, is be aware of the larger scheme. Get Educated. Get out of debt. And secure your life, your money and weaponry. And live the life.
I doubt any sort of civil war would ignite. But a new overhaul of government is needed. Twitter allows us to quickly communicate these points without need for violence. This will happen over time. The quicker it happens, the worst it will be. I'm over the next president tho...real

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

or do you think it's a combination of things? The streets wanna know...
greed
grēd
noun

1. 1.
   intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.

in·com·pe·tence
inˈkämpətənsiNG-
noun

1. 1.
   inability to do something successfully; ineptitude.

ma·li·cious
məˈliSHəs
adjective

1. 1.
   characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.

Well you have to remember the government isn't all one thing. There's thousands upon thousands of government employees and dozens of federal departments all with different tasks and goals. Then you have state and local government as well. The government has a bunch of multivalent interests. For instance, the army and the Department of Housing and Urban Development do entirely different things.

Maliciousness isn't as much an imperative as selfishness is, although the resulting actions may be deplorable. Even if you look at an extreme example of human evil like the trans-Atlantic slave trade, what was done to Africans was heinous beyond words, but the overall intent of it was self-interest; namely cheap, exploitable labor.

I think a major factor contributing to its incompetence is simply bureaucracy and institutionalism. Incompetence occurs because all the different people and moving parts that constitute government, and the outside influences over government all have their own self-interest in mind, and the institution neuters itself. Look at the legendary HBO's The Wire. It was obviously a fictional show with a lot of unrealistic aspects to make it compelling TV show, but the underlying theme of the whole show was that institutions inherent corrupt and collapse under the weight of themselves, whether it was the police department, the local government, the drug gangs, the FBI, the port union, the media, or the education system. Everybody is selfish, or have their own motives and agendas, and it inhibits the ability of the institution to function for a larger goal.

So in the U. S. government, you've got all these different departments with different goals and functions. You've got politicians that are looking out for their own self interest, whether it be the next higher job they want, maintaining their current job, or angling for a gig when they're out of public office. Mayors wants to be governors. Governors want to be Senators. Senators want to Presidents. Congressmen want to be lobbyists when their term is done. Military generals want to work for defense contractors when their service is done. And they are all beholden to the special interests and constituencies that keep them in power.

Also, people in government have different ideologies on the role of government and politicians feel the need to play the politics game, and because of that often will purposely sabotage certain government undertakings. For instance, the basically the whole Republican House is committed to the notion that the government can't work to do anything unless it's bomb people or lock people up, so being invested in that idea, they work to purposely try and neuter many government programs just to say "See I told you government doesn't work!" after the fact.

When you have all these different people, different politics, and multi-valent goals and agendas all looking out for self, the public good gets thrown in the bushes.

 

[Type Username Here]

id rather b controlled than dead

Isn't that precisely why it works? If that wasn't true for a majority of human beings, we wouldn't have things like chattel slavery, concentration camps, and so on. The biological desire to live is a powerful thing.

 

[OsO]

Well, to do that kind of thing, the govt would have to raise taxes. And you're average right-wing type would start whining about "handouts" and how their taxes shouldn't be raised to pay for people who don't "want" to work and whatnot. So yeah, the govt could do a lot of these types of things, but a lot of people don't want it to.

So while I'm not excusing the government for it's BS, I feel like a lot of people need to look at the responsibility they themselves have for this state of affairs.

we wouldn't need to raise taxes on everyone, just on those who SHOULD be paying more. there's no reason joe the teacher gotta give up 30% of his money and goldman sachs is coming off zip zero. cmon fam thats just ridiculous.

 

[OsO]

Let's hope you ready to buss these guns
What you think these rappers talking about?

Seriously though. We all wake up on the same day. They are slowly tightening the grip on the populace as we allow them too. Enough of the population is aware and spreading the message. But the majority is too scared to acknowledge what is really going on, its realizing you invested time money and effort into the American Dream and you JUST woke up.

Your literally stepping out of a whole world you thought was one way and you have to readjust and rediscover a new way of life. Exactly like Plato's Cave, just like the Matrix.

The Average, in the back of their mind lives with this fear, but as long as its over seas the government will take care of it and they can go back to their insignificant lives, dreaming of working towards a future the government set up for them, which does not exist. While "real" people realize life is what YOU make it. Those who are content with the system as is are so afraid that their government (in fact, the system of POWER itself)is the actual enemy they reject any such notion.

The trick is to open a sunroof in Plato's Cave. That's why we love entertainment and successful people. They show us that despite the system in place, we have an actual chance for personal success and to be the best we can be.


So the real question is, what do we do in the meantime, if or before they roll the military out?
Firstly,I have trust and faith in American patriotism. I think there would be dissent within the military if it was ever turned against their own people. But that's another topic, in and of itself. (Consider the sexual harassment happening in the military and Obama's lack of follow up)


We have to understand firstly, that its all about public influence, power and opinion. What they do is they first, stir up fear, then take action. Some terrible thing happens in the news, then they change the laws. Read Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper. Silent wars, are fought with situations instead of "weapons". Example in the wake of all the school shooting, we know have armed teachers at schools....
While this may seem all tinfoil hat, just look at America post 9/11 till now. Tragedy, fear, panic, change the laws.

But they have to do it in ways we accept to avoid rioting. Once they roll the military out against Americans, without a just enough reason, and nothing short of an actual revolution will be the only just reason, then its all FUBAR. But by time there IS a revolution or revolutionary sentiment is at the boiling point, they will probably leave the country.....to China.

All the average person can and should do, is be aware of the larger scheme. Get Educated. Get out of debt. And secure your life, your money and weaponry. And live the life.
I doubt any sort of civil war would ignite. But a new overhaul of government is needed. Twitter allows us to quickly communicate these points without need for violence. This will happen over time. The quicker it happens, the worst it will be. I'm over the next president tho...real

great post.

you go to a lot of levels with your thinking... im gonna have a response for you tmrw

 

[OsO]

To keep certain groups wealthy and centralize power in non-elected people of influence/wealth. To keep the status quo and economic system marching along. To slowly refine these systems of control to minimize an uprising or economic-strike.

In my opinion, I honestly believe that programs like the NSA programs will be used to stop the enemies of the US, but they won't be Muslims with bombs or foreign officials, they'll be you. If you think I'm bullshytting, you're more than welcome to read about the FBI and Dept of Homeland security effort and assistance to stomp out the Occupy protests:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti.../nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy

Why do you think they did this with Occupy and not the Tea Party?

you know i agree...

but i feel like when i and others have tried to say such things we get the tinfoil treatment

 

[OsO]

They are slowly tightening the grip on the populace as we allow them too. Enough of the population is aware and spreading the message. But the majority is too scared to acknowledge what is really going on, its realizing you invested time money and effort into the American Dream and you JUST woke up.

Your literally stepping out of a whole world you thought was one way and you have to readjust and rediscover a new way of life. Exactly like Plato's Cave, just like the Matrix.

The Average, in the back of their mind lives with this fear, but as long as its over seas the government will take care of it and they can go back to their insignificant lives, dreaming of working towards a future the government set up for them, which does not exist. While "real" people realize life is what YOU make it. Those who are content with the system as is are so afraid that their government (in fact, the system of POWER itself)is the actual enemy they reject any such notion.

i think people keep coming back to this shytty system because they dont have an alternative system to go to, or cant visualize an alternative system.

i think if you gave the average person a choice between this society and something better a lot of them would choose something better.

The trick is to open a sunroof in Plato's Cave. That's why we love entertainment and successful people. They show us that despite the system in place, we have an actual chance for personal success and to be the best we can be.

what exactly do you mean by the bold?

So the real question is, what do we do in the meantime, if or before they roll the military out?
Firstly,I have trust and faith in American patriotism. I think there would be dissent within the military if it was ever turned against their own people. But that's another topic, in and of itself. (Consider the sexual harassment happening in the military and Obama's lack of follow up)

there would definitely be dissent within the military. i dont think the american military would be able to go martial law on the american people because too many soldiers would join the people. i do think however that it could be outsourced to a foreign army with no ties or sympathy for american people, say China or Russia.

also in the back of my mind is the "irobot" scenario... because these war machines are getting more and more sophisticated.

but... although both scenarios are plausible i dont think it will come to that. i think this social transformation is going to be a lot slower and less violent than people thought.

We have to understand firstly, that its all about public influence, power and opinion. What they do is they first, stir up fear, then take action. Some terrible thing happens in the news, then they change the laws. Read Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper. Silent wars, are fought with situations instead of "weapons". Example in the wake of all the school shooting, we know have armed teachers at schools....
While this may seem all tinfoil hat, just look at America post 9/11 till now. Tragedy, fear, panic, change the laws.

But they have to do it in ways we accept to avoid rioting. Once they roll the military out against Americans, without a just enough reason, and nothing short of an actual revolution will be the only just reason, then its all FUBAR. But by time there IS a revolution or revolutionary sentiment is at the boiling point, they will probably leave the country.....to China.

All the average person can and should do, is be aware of the larger scheme. Get Educated. Get out of debt. And secure your life, your money and weaponry. And live the life.
I doubt any sort of civil war would ignite. But a new overhaul of government is needed. Twitter allows us to quickly communicate these points without need for violence. This will happen over time. The quicker it happens, the worst it will be. I'm over the next president tho...real

my question is, what do you think it will take for the average person to take this more seriously, and really make it a priority? what will it take for certain people to not be so apathetic and instead take significant action towards reforming government? For example, attending a town hall meeting once a week, participating in organized mass visits to city councilmen and congressmen offices, give time and energy, donate money, etc...

 

[Type Username Here]

you know i agree...

but i feel like when i and others have tried to say such things we get the tinfoil treatment

I think the tin foil thing comes from the idea of being this secret entity that controls the world. I don't think it's like that at all. It's a bunch of corporations/wealthy families who have pull, but they don't line themselves up politically or have the same goals. I don't think it's a cohesive thing. At times they might all benefit, at other times one might benefit at the cost of the other. A great example of this might be here in America, where you have the Koch Brothers vs George Soros, both very wealthy individuals with power. I don't trust either side, even with I agree with Soros on a lot of stances. Both sides might benefit from certain laws, tax breaks, curbing investigations into their businesses, not having a major economic strike, and so on, but they have very different goals in terms of keeping their wealth and power on a lot of issues.