“Villanova Dogs and a Domesticated WildKAT... Make It Make Sense..." Official 2024 NY Knicks off-season Thread

[Wargames]

Fred Katz knows how to throw salt on the wounds.

Spoiler

OKLAHOMA CITY — Until late Wednesday night, Immanuel Quickleytrekked through life unaware that he was part of a wrecking crew. Once he learned it, a man who studies the game obsessively couldn’t quite put into words why he and three other New York Knicks eviscerate opponents whenever they play together.

When Quickley, Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart and Julius Randle share the floor — whether that fifth guy is Isaiah Hartenstein or Mitchell Robinson — the Knicks vaporize whoever stands in front of them. Yet, following Wednesday’s 129-120 loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder, Quickley couldn’t quite explain the dynamic.

“Maybe we just have good chemistry. I don’t know,” he said. “Maybe, we just connect. I don’t know. Good basketball players on the floor playing hard.”

But the news to those other than Quickley following the defeat, which dropped the Knicks to 17-13, wasn’t that New York may have a death lineup. Instead, head coach Tom Thibodeau chose to go away from it.

At times, deviating from the fearsome foursome has worked, such as on Monday, when Thibodeau subbed RJ Barrett in for Quickley with three and a half minutes to go in regulation, a controversial move, considering Quickley was firing flames from his fingertips — 20 points in 22 minutes on 7-of-10 shooting. Thibodeau justified the switch after the game, disclosing that he sent Barrett back in because of the 23-year-old’s length. And on that day, it worked.

Barrett, who was already in the midst of his best performance in a couple of weeks, played a strong defensive final few minutes, and the Knicks downed one of the league’s best squads, the Milwaukee Bucks. But when a nearly identical scenario played out two days later, the results were far from equivalent.

With 4 minutes to go in the loss to the Thunder and the Knicks down seven, Thibodeau once again pulled Quickley, who was once again on a scoring binge: once again 7 of 10 with 22 points this time in 25 minutes. And once again after the game, Thibodeau said that Barrett gave the defense more length, which helped in this case because the Knicks were switching more than they usually do against Oklahoma City’s dearth of wings.

AKA Thibs really doesn’t want to play Brunson and IQ together longterm for defensive reasons.

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

AKA Thibs really doesn’t want to play Brunson and IQ together longterm for defensive reasons.

It’s in the article but Thibs doesn’t see any of the players as wings. In his mind he has six guards and he divides them. Small guards (Quick, Brunson, Grimes, Donte & Deuce) and his big Guards (Hart and Barrett).



Thibs needs Hart or Barrett on the court for 48 minutes. Fred validates that point by highlighting how the team is -19 defensively without Hart and RJ on the court

 

[tremonthustler1]

I Think they are preparing to trade IQ and aren’t trying to play him too heavy, I also think his assist numbers going down this season is an unspoken narrative to what is happening with him. He’s definitely looking to get his.

Also on the low Josh Hart is playing worse than last season. His Assist numbers are down, FG% is down, etc. Grimes is a shell of himself. RJ has always been up and down, but ya’ll are right he’s too inconsistent to be a reliable 3rd option, then even when Mitch was here the defense was off.

I hate to say it because the Knicks have historically been bad at it, but this team needs to make some trades. Something is off maybe with the minutes distribution or the lineups, and while they aren’t bad. You can see they aren’t getting better either.

IQ shoulda been either extended or dealt. IQ wanted a spot the Knicks weren't gonna give him and a salary the Knicks couldn't justify in his current role. Considering they just let Obi go for a couple of 2's for similar reasons, it's not unreasonable.

Now what IQ is proving is that if you're a team looking for a PG, IQ might not be the guy.

 

[Wargames]

IQ shoulda been either extended or dealt. IQ wanted a spot the Knicks weren't gonna give him and a salary the Knicks couldn't justify in his current role. Considering they just let Obi go for a couple of 2's for similar reasons, it's not unreasonable.

Now what IQ is proving is that if you're a team looking for a PG, IQ might not be the guy.

Honestly, yeah more reason why I think IQ is gone. They offered him 18 Mil to be their 6th man and he wants 25 Mil which is starter money. Meanwhile Murray is better than IQ is now and gets 25 Mil starting next year. Plus Murray fixes other issues the team has Like Defense in the starting lineup, and relying on RJ as a third offensive option.

After that they probably need to see if a team would trade for a 2-1 combo of Grimes and Hart because I think they got to get the rotation down to 8 for Thibs to be effective With minutes. DDV can stay as the third guard. However, they need a real combo forward to run behind RJ and Randle and Hart just ain’t it. if Hunter wasn’t as injury prone, and Hart wasn’t part of the Villanova crew I would say add him and Grimes in the trade for Hunter.

The Hawks need bench players, and assets to chase Siakim, so I can see this trade going a lot of different ways. I’m not big on all trade rumors, but this one makes sense and on the low the Hawks GM Fields doesn’t hate the Knicks since he came from here so this shouldn’t be a robbery like other teams would do.

I legit think this shyt is going to happen.

 

[Rev]

IQ shoulda been either extended or dealt. IQ wanted a spot the Knicks weren't gonna give him and a salary the Knicks couldn't justify in his current role. Considering they just let Obi go for a couple of 2's for similar reasons, it's not unreasonable.

Now what IQ is proving is that if you're a team looking for a PG, IQ might not be the guy.

This front office doesn’t have the savvy to make beneficial deals.
They only know the basics like what they did in the Draft last year, the Hart trade and the Obi trade.

 

[ISO]

Now what IQ is proving is that if you're a team looking for a PG, IQ might not be the guy.

He’s not proving that.

 

[ISO]

Honestly, yeah more reason why I think IQ is gone. They offered him 18 Mil to be their 6th man and he wants 25 Mil which is starter money. Meanwhile Murray is better than IQ is now and gets 25 Mil starting next year. Plus Murray fixes other issues the team has Like Defense in the starting lineup, and relying on RJ as a third offensive option.

After that they probably need to see if a team would trade for a 2-1 combo of Grimes and Hart because I think they got to get the rotation down to 8 for Thibs to be effective With minutes. DDV can stay as the third guard. However, they need a real combo forward to run behind RJ and Randle and Hart just ain’t it. if Hunter wasn’t as injury prone, and Hart wasn’t part of the Villanova crew I would say add him and Grimes in the trade for Hunter.

The Hawks need bench players, and assets to chase Siakim, so I can see this trade going a lot of different ways. I’m not big on all trade rumors, but this one makes sense and on the low the Hawks GM Fields doesn’t hate the Knicks since he came from here so this shouldn’t be a robbery like other teams would do.

I legit think this shyt is going to happen.

IQ currently has a higher player efficiency rating, box plus minus, and an identical value over replacement to Murray.

 

[Wargames]

IQ currently has a higher player efficiency rating, box plus minus, and an identical value over replacement to Murray.

Yeah because Murray is having a down year. Stat wise Murray is also 20/5/6.

 

[tremonthustler1]

He’s not proving that.

IQ don't pass the rock. Never has been, even in college.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Most teams never trade high on their players, they wait for them to get old, washed or to play like shyt, then dangle them on the trade market expecting to get premium value back still (see Zach Lavine and the Bulls).

The only time I've seen a GM trade a player at peak value is Sam Hinkie with Michael Carter Williams 10 years ago. Most gms are too shook to do that.

Yall keep making excuses for these bums
no wonder they dont feel da need to do anything lol
we traded for melo in da middle of our best start in in like 8 years because Walsh knew the current team had a ceiling and wanted to get a legit star. All those players looked good in that trade.

Donnie also traded crawford and zach randolph when we had a hot start and they were playing well to too open up cap.

Lebron trades good players all the time

Boston traded smart recently after almost makin da finals.

Grimes RJ Quick Randle etc have all looked like stars at certain points. we dont do shyt

 

[ISO]

IQ don't pass the rock. Never has been, even in college.

You don’t need a PG to dominate the ball and hunt assists.

Different game in a starters role he’d average 5-6 assists. IQ is also good for NBA offense period.

 

[Wargames]

You don’t need a PG to dominate the ball and hunt assists.

Different game in a starters role he’d average 5-6 assists. IQ is also good for NBA offense period.

I fukks with IQ but Thibs ain’t running Brunson and another 6’3 guard. It’s too small of a back court defensively.

Plus, he wants to get paid and is a RFA. What happens when the Spurs or the Magic who have money to burn throw $27 Mil at him and we watch the FO blink because they don’t want to pay him that?

 

[tremonthustler1]

You don’t need a PG to dominate the ball and hunt assists.

Different game in a starters role he’d average 5-6 assists. IQ is also good for NBA offense period.

It's not about assist hunting. IQ is an unwilling passer.

In a starter's role he'd look the same because in a perfect world, he's the guy you're kicking the ball out to. If he was starting alongside, say, Luka, that works because Luka is the PG, or Jokic or Sabonis even.

 

[The War Report]

This team can't beat the really good teams yet.

 

[ISO]

I fukks with IQ but Thibs ain’t running Brunson and another 6’3 guard. It’s too small of a back court defensively.

Plus, he wants to get paid and is a RFA. What happens when the Spurs or the Magic who have money to burn throw $27 Mil at him and we watch the FO blink because they don’t want to pay him that?

Thibs is wrong and he was wrong to sub in RJ for any reason at that point in last game.

The first three things that happened was he turned the ball over, bricked a three, and lost Jalen Williams in transition for a three. Whatever “length” he brings doesn’t counter the fact he’s not a strong defender especially off the ball. He’s not a better defender than Quickley.

Also, Murray isn’t even that much bigger than IQ.