Venezuela! Te agarro en la bajadita: 8/25 WH levies sanctions on Maduro regime

Mook

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:ohmy: :laugh:

So Venezuela ONLY exist because of America? Care to back that up with some facts?

Venezuela is only Americas 4th major supplier of oil, so if Chavez is so bad etc etc like the media here and former presidents have said, them why not just cut them off and stop buying oil from? Surely they will tumble if good ol Massa' isnt there? Right cause Venezuela doesn't export to anyone else? Cause the Chinese aren't about to become the biggest importers of Venezuelan oil

How about because we need them more than they need us? :leon:

Right now we get a little under a million barrels daily of oi from them , you think gas prices are bad now? and the economy is faltering now? What do you think would happen if a million barrels of oil all of a sudden stopped coming in here. Total collapse? No but it wouldn't be a pretty sight

But you see the Chavez and the people Venezuela are not like that, they won't put up a embargo knowing that it will cause chaos and suffering for others. You know what they do?

They offer FREE oil to poor black families here in Harlem

CITGO-Venezuela Heating Oil Program Warming Harlem Hearts --NTDTV.org

Nice quote from this article



Where are the American oil company's?

Or how about this after that earthquake in Haiti, what did Chavez do, while US "aid" workers were caught abusing Haitian children

Chavez was writing off ALL of Haiti oil debt

Latin American Herald Tribune - Chavez Writes Off Haiti’s Oil Debt to Venezuela


I could go on and on, point of all this is that yea fine oil is there major export but again SO WHAT??, he is taking that oil revenue and using it do do right by his people and millions of others

Mean while we out here winning hearts & minds

:wow: Chavez is truly the GOAT. dont waste your keys in these fakkits

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Shogun

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:ohmy: :laugh:

So Venezuela ONLY exist because of America? Care to back that up with some facts?

Venezuela is only Americas 4th major supplier of oil, so if Chavez is so bad etc etc like the media here and former presidents have said, them why not just cut them off and stop buying oil from? Surely they will tumble if good ol Massa' isnt there? Right cause Venezuela doesn't export to anyone else? Cause the Chinese aren't about to become the biggest importers of Venezuelan oil

How about because we need them more than they need us? :leon:

Right now we get a little under a million barrels daily of oi from them , you think gas prices are bad now? and the economy is faltering now? What do you think would happen if a million barrels of oil all of a sudden stopped coming in here. Total collapse? No but it wouldn't be a pretty sight

But you see the Chavez and the people Venezuela are not like that, they won't put up a embargo knowing that it will cause chaos and suffering for others. You know what they do?

They offer FREE oil to poor black families here in Harlem

CITGO-Venezuela Heating Oil Program Warming Harlem Hearts --NTDTV.org

Nice quote from this article



Where are the American oil company's?

Or how about this after that earthquake in Haiti, what did Chavez do, while US "aid" workers were caught abusing Haitian children

Chavez was writing off ALL of Haiti oil debt

Latin American Herald Tribune - Chavez Writes Off Haiti’s Oil Debt to Venezuela


I could go on and on, point of all this is that yea fine oil is there major export but again SO WHAT??, he is taking that oil revenue and using it do do right by his people and millions of others

Mean while we out here winning hearts & minds

:heh:

Look at you deflecting a very simple question and bringing up all this irrelevant shyt. I said Venezuela can only exist as it is because of the money they make of us. We account for 40% of their oil sales.

I never said that the us didn't need them, or any if that other shyt your ranting about.

Anger is clouding your common sense
 

newarkhiphop

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:heh:

Look at you deflecting a very simple question and bringing up all this irrelevant shyt. I said Venezuela can only exist as it is because of the money they make of us. We account for 40% of their oil sales.

I never said that the us didn't need them, or any if that other shyt your ranting about.

Anger is clouding your common sense

My common sense? lol when your the one that came into this thread with this statement?

how do you feel about the fact that Hugo's entire economy and government model depends on oil sales to America?

No facts nothing just a blanket statement, i asked you twice after that what does it matter that they only have one resource as long as there using it for the economic and social benefit of there country? You have yet to give me a clear answer on that.

and where in the world are you getting 40% from :ohlawd:

Where Does America Get Oil? You May Be Surprised : NPR

This report as of April of this year has it at 6%, highest i could find it was 9% at one pint


:ohhh: i forget to connect the dots , you one them foxnews crazies ?
 

daze23

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newarkhiphop

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you keep getting it backwards. his claim was about how much of their oil they sell us. not how much of our oil we get from them

No i get that import vs sales, i purposely phrased that last question like that.

I still want him to answer how the Venezuelan economy would collapse without us


It doesn't make any sense to me , if it was that easy and we wanted to get Chavez out of power (which we do) all we have to do is for 1 year, stop buying oil from them.
 

Shogun

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My common sense? lol when your the one that came into this thread with this statement?



No facts nothing just a blanket statement, i asked you twice after that what does it matter that they only have one resource as long as there using it for the economic and social benefit of there country? You have yet to give me a clear answer on that.

and where in the world are you getting 40% from :ohlawd:

Where Does America Get Oil? You May Be Surprised : NPR

This report as of April of this year has it at 6%, highest i could find it was 9% at one pint


:ohhh: i forget to connect the dots , you one them foxnews crazies ?

foxnews crazies? no. Just someone who understands that the world is much more grey than it is black and white...

In regards to you questioning my numbers, you aren't getting it breh. You are correct, as your link asserts America only buys about 6 % of its oil from Venezuela. In other words, you are supporting MY ARGUMENT in proving that Venezuela could shut down it oil sales to America and we would be just fine. Prices might spike a tad, but the average American wouldn't give a fukk.

The 40% number I brought up refers to the percent of Venezuela's oil revenue which comes from the US. In other words, 40% of all the income Venezuela makes off oil comes from America. I'm hoping you're not crazy enough to believe that Chavez's government would continue to succeed if he cut off trade with the purchaser of 40% of their most important source of income. Common sense would then tell you that Venezuela's socialist model, in which they demonize American capitalism, is only possible because of American capitalism.

Which brings me to my original question; how do you feel about this hypocrisy?

Sources:

Venezuela
Despite political tensions between the United States and Venezuela, the United States remains Venezuela's most important trading partner. In 2011, bilateral trade topped U.S. $55.6 billion. Venezuelan exports to the United States were U.S. $43.3 billion (accounting for at least 42% of total Venezuelan exports), and U.S. exports to Venezuela were $12.4 billion (or 24.2% of total Venezuelan imports). The United States is the single most important customer for Venezuelan oil. Venezuela shipped an average of 987,000 barrels of crude oil and petroleum products per day to the United States in 2010, a figure which accounted for at least half of Venezuelan oil exports and 8.3 % of U.S. oil imports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/world/americas/16venezuela.html?_r=0

RACAS, Venezuela, Aug. 15 — “Capitalism will lead to the destruction of humanity,” President Hugo Chávez said this month in a speech in Vietnam, during an overseas tour that included stops in Iran and Belarus. The United States, he added, “is the devil that represents capitalism.”
et even as the talk from Caracas and Washington grows more hostile and the countries seem to be growing ever farther apart, trade between Venezuela and the United States is surging.

Venezuela’s oil exports, of course, account for the bulk of that trade, as the country remains the fourth largest oil supplier to the United States. Pulled largely by those rising oil revenues, trade climbed 36 percent in 2005, to $40.4 billion, the fastest growth in cargo value among America’s top 20 trading partners, according to WorldCity, a Miami company that closely tracks American trade.

But American companies are also benefiting, as Venezuela’s thirst for American products like cars, construction machinery and computers has steadily grown, rising to $6.4 billion last year, from $4.8 billion a year earlier.
 

razassin

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Chavez' model is not sustainable in the long run. Venezuela is not the paradise you guys think it is. It's a dangerous country with some of the highest murder and corruption rates in the world.

On the other hand, Chavez' investments in education are great for the people. However, he's driven out of the country a lot of industries and investors by nationalizing private sector bussinesses and thus making not only the government, but the venezuelans even more dependant on the oil exports money. This is why I consider his model to not be balance and even worse it's going to have big repercussions on govt spending once the oil exports start decreasing.

If you'd like to know my sincere opinion on Chavez as a political leader - well I consider him a populist leader who's abusing his country's biggest resources to stay in power. I don't think he's smart and last but not least, he's a hypocrite... his generals are corrupt and he knows it - all the military leaders in venezuela are buying real state out of venezuela (in places like the carribean) laundering all the money they're stealing from the people, its well known by colombian military intelligence that chave uses offical govt airplanes to transport cocaine to africa (europe being the final destination), and last but not least, he knows he's safe from the US as long as keeps selling them oil at the low prices he does.
 

Ritzy Sharon

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Chavez' model is not sustainable in the long run. Venezuela is not the paradise you guys think it is. It's a dangerous country with some of the highest murder and corruption rates in the world.

On the other hand, Chavez' investments in education are great for the people. However, he's driven out of the country a lot of industries and investors by nationalizing private sector bussinesses and thus making not only the government, but the venezuelans even more dependant on the oil exports money. This is why I consider his model to not be balance and even worse it's going to have big repercussions on govt spending once the oil exports start decreasing.

If you'd like to know my sincere opinion on Chavez as a political leader - =
well I consider him a populist leader who's abusing his country's biggest resources to stay in power. I don't think he's smart and last but not least, he's a hypocrite... his generals are corrupt and he knows it - all the military leaders in venezuela are buying real state out of venezuela (in places like the carribean) laundering all the money they're stealing from the people, its well known by colombian military intelligence that chave uses offical govt airplanes to transport cocaine to africa (europe being the final destination), and last but not least, he knows he's safe from the US as long as keeps selling them oil at the low prices he does.
that's one solid source. :heh:

fortunately for us, we have history to teach us what privatisation, austerity and neoliberal policies meant for Venezuela: the countries wealth concentrated in the hands a privileged few elite and foreign interests abroad with the majority of the population living in abject poverty and no means of bettering themselves.

neoliberalism isn't a cure to crime in Venezuela, neoliberalism is the cause of crime in Venezuela.

I agree with one thing you said: the "Chavez model" may not be equipped to deal with a post-oil society. but what Chavez will leave behind is a people educated, empowered and capable with dealing with that eventuality.
 

Type Username Here

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I'm a socialist on most issues, damn near marxist on a few, but I'll say this again: I don't like the Cuban/Soviet model that Chavez rides on. The power/wealth still ends up in the hands of a few, no different than capitalism.

I much prefer the Scandinavian Socialism hybrid and would wish Chavez and the rest of South America would implement it. I think Brazil is heading in that direction but I think Chavez has been a supreme disappointment.
 

razassin

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Chavez and his team are doing no different from the previous elites that were in power... only difference is he's fukking up his country's future on the long run by wasting all the oil money venezuela has on populist policies to maintain in power...

Venezuela wasn't doing so bad... they had a lot of manufacturing industries in the country before Chavez came into power, which are really a sign of progression. Neomarxist theory tells us that the explotation relationship between center-periphery is basically the center selling technology to the periphery at higher prices and the periphery selling raw materials to the center at lower prices. This is what Chavez has been doing for 13 years - turning a progressing economy that not only relied on its oil but also on manufacturing and industrial industries into an only oil-based economy. Where's the progress? And I'm not even arguing on neoliberal theory but marxist concepts.
 

Ritzy Sharon

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Chavez and his team are doing no different from the previous elites that were in power... only difference is he's fukking up his country's future on the long run by wasting all the oil money venezuela has on populist policies to maintain in power...

Venezuela wasn't doing so bad... they had a lot of manufacturing industries in the country before Chavez came into power, which are really a sign of progression. Neomarxist theory tells us that the explotation relationship between center-periphery is basically the center selling technology to the periphery at higher prices and the periphery selling raw materials to the center at lower prices. This is what Chavez has been doing for 13 years - turning a progressing economy that not only relied on its oil but also on manufacturing and industrial industries into an only oil-based economy. Where's the progress? And I'm not even arguing on neoliberal theory but marxist concepts.


a "progressive economy" that had a quarter of its population living in extreme poverty. a "progressive economy" that had massively high unemployment. :rudy:

the fact remains, only a small minority reaped any real benefits from that "progressive economy". Venezuela wasn't doing so bad, yeah, only if you exclude Afro-Venezuelans, Indigenous-Venezuelans, the working class and the poor. :rudy:
 

Type Username Here

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enezuela wasn't doing so bad, yeah, only if you exclude Afro-Venezuelans, Indigenous-Venezuelans, the working class and the poor. :rudy:

How are those people doing today though? Give me an objective answer.

I was a Chavez supporter until he started implementing Cuban/Soviet style of Marxism. That shyt does not work. Period. Notice I didn't say communism/socialism/marxism doesn't work, I said that particular style.
 
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Popular support for Venezuela's revolution shows the growing space for genuine alternatives in the 21st century
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The transformation of Latin America is one of the decisive changes reshaping the global order. The tide of progressive change that has swept the region over the last decade has brought a string of elected socialist and social-democratic governments to office that have redistributed wealth and power, rejected western neoliberal orthodoxy, and challenged imperial domination. In the process they have started to build the first truly independent South America for 500 years and demonstrated to the rest of the world that there are, after all, economic and social alternatives in the 21st century.

Central to that process has been Hugo Chávez and his Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela. It is Venezuela, sitting on the world's largest proven oil reserves, that has spearheaded the movement of radical change across Latin America and underwritten the regional integration that is key to its renaissance. By doing so, the endlessly vilified Venezuelan leader has earned the enmity of the US and its camp followers, as well as the social and racial elites that have called the shots in Latin America for hundreds of years.

So Chávez's remarkable presidential election victory on Sunday – in which he won 55% of the vote on an 81% turnout after 14 years in power – has a significance far beyond Venezuela, or even Latin America. The stakes were enormous: if his oligarch challenger Henrique Capriles had won, not only would the revolution have come to a juddering halt, triggering privatisations and the axing of social programmes. So would its essential support for continental integration, mass sponsorship of Cuban doctors across the hemisphere – as well as Chávez's plans to reduce oil dependence on the US market.

Western and Latin American media and corporate elites had convinced themselves that they were at last in with a shout, that this election was "too close to call", or even that a failing Venezuelan president, weakened by cancer, would at last be rejected by his own people. Outgoing World Bank president Robert Zoellick crowed that Chávez's days were "numbered", while Barclays let its excitement run away with itself by calling the election for Capriles.

It's all of a piece with the endlessly recycled Orwellian canard that Chávez is some kind ofa dictator and Venezuela a tyranny where elections are rigged and the media muzzled and prostrate. But as opposition leaders concede, Venezuela is by any rational standards a democracy, with exceptionally high levels of participation, its electoral process more fraud-proof than those in Britain or the US, and its media dominated by a vituperatively anti-government private sector. In reality, the greatest threat to Venezuelan democracy came in the form of the abortive US-backed coup of 2002.

Even senior western diplomats in Caracas roll their eyes at the absurdity of the anti-Chávez propaganda in the western media. And in the queues outside polling stations on Sunday, in the opposition stronghold of San Cristóbal near the Colombian border, Capriles voters told me: "This is a democracy." Several claimed that if Chávez won, it wouldn't be because of manipulation of the voting system but the "laziness" and "greed" of their Venezuelans – by which they seemed to mean the appeal of government social programmes.

Which gets to the heart of the reason so many got the Venezuelan election wrong. Despite claims that Latin America's progressive tide is exhausted, leftwing and centre-left governments continue to be re-elected – from Ecuador to Brazil and Bolivia to Argentina – because they have reduced poverty and inequality and taken control of energy resources to benefit the excluded majority.

That is what Chávez has been able to do on a grander scale, using Venezuela's oil income and publicly owned enterprises to slash poverty by half and extreme poverty by 70%, massively expanding access to health and education, sharply boosting the minimum wage and pension provision, halving unemployment, and giving slum communities direct control over social programmes.

To visit any rally or polling station during the election campaign was to be left in no doubt as to who Chávez represents: the poor, the non-white, the young, the disabled – in other words, the dispossessed majority who have again returned him to power. Euphoria at the result among the poor was palpable: in the foothills of the Andes on Monday groups of red-shirted hillside farmers chanted and waved flags at any passerby.

Of course there is also no shortage of government failures and weaknesses which the opposition was able to target: from runaway violent crime to corruption, lack of delivery and economic diversification, and over-dependence on one man's charismatic leadership. And the US-financed opposition campaign was a much more sophisticated affair than in the past. Capriles presented himself as "centre-left", despite his hard right background, and promised to maintain some Chavista social programmes.

But even so, the Venezuelan president ended up almost 11 points ahead. And the opposition's attempt to triangulate to the left only underlines the success of Chávez in changing Venezuela's society and political terms of trade. He has shown himself to be the most electorally successful radical left leader in history. His re-election now gives him the chance to ensure Venezuela's transformation is deep enough to survive him, to overcome the administration's failures and help entrench the process of change across the continent.

Venezuela's revolution doesn't offer a political model that can be directly transplanted elsewhere, not least because oil revenues allow it to target resources on the poor without seriously attacking the interests of the wealthy. But its innovative social programmes, experiments in direct democracy and success in bringing resources under public control offer lessons to anyone interested in social justice and new forms of socialist politics in the rest of the world.

For all their problems and weaknesses, Venezuela and its Latin American allies have demonstrated that it's no longer necessary to accept a failed economic model, as many social democrats in Europe still do. They have shown it's possible to be both genuinely progressive and popular. Cynicism and media-fuelled ignorance have prevented many who would naturally identify with Latin America's transformation from recognising its significance. But Chávez's re-election has now ensured that the process will continue – and that the space for 21st-century alternatives will grow.

The Chávez victory will be felt far beyond Latin America | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian
 
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