Thoughts on America's Cold Civil War

mykey

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OP with all due respect quit with these long essays.

We're dealing with animals here. These people tried to overthrow the Constitutional order and literally smeared their own poop in the hall of Congress.

The only way is to go full :demonic: on them. Purge the mofos.

These animals kill black children playing in the park, black women in their own homes and black men for allegedly using counterfeit $20 bills and selling cigarettes on the street.
:gucci:
 

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The Left needs to realize that it’s The Establishment now
But remember, an American insurgency isn’t actually going to be fought with individually owned guns. It’s going to be insurgents vs. security services, as we saw with the coup attempt of 1/6 (this is also true of any leftist insurgency). Thus, the liberals need to get the security services on their side.

In principle this is possible, since liberals have proven adept at gaining control over institutions. And 1/6, combined with Trump’s antics, should have made it clear that the Right demonstrates a far greater threat to national security than any lefties attacking courthouses in Portland. Already, the FBI and the intelligence services have turned strongly against Trump, Trump is very unpopular with the U.S. military (especially with the officer corps), and both active-duty officers and retired ones expressed support for the George Floyd protesters and for Joe Biden.

So, progress is being made on this front.

But the first line of defense against rightist insurgency is the police, and co-opting the police will be a wrenchingly difficult thing for liberals to do. It was only a few months ago that the Left itself launched the biggest series of protests in American history, protesting against police brutality and racism. A culture of violent authoritarianism is prevalent among many U.S. police departments, and racism is of course common as well. Who could forget the images of police beating up peaceful protesters in city after city? Who could forget all the videos of cops shooting Black people?

The conviction that the cops are on the side of rightist insurgents runs deep on the Left. There was a widespread rumor that the Capitol police opened a barrier to let the MAGA rioters into the building on 1/6. It was later debunked, but the quickness with which the belief gained credence speaks to the deep distrust and hatred of police among many liberals. Similarly, it was widely asserted that the cops were being gentle with the insurrectionists. That may have been true at first, but the night after one police officer was killed, the D.C. cops treated the MAGA people very roughly.

In other words, American police are willing to enforce law and order against rightist insurgents. When a rightist woman wailed that “They’re shooting at us. They’re supposed to shoot BLM, but they’re shooting the patriots,” she was just discovering this fact.

This does NOT mean, of course that the Left should abandon the fight to stop police brutality and racism. In fact, replacing police forces that view their mission as quelling Black people with forces that protect and serve all of the citizenry will be very helpful for the fight against rightist violence.

But what it means is that Democrats and liberals need to stop seeing themselves as the insurgency. This is not the 1970s anymore. Liberalism has successfully taken over institution after institution, and now the Presidency and Congress too. And when you take over the country, you have to act like it.
We need law enforcement to punish the coup plotters severely if we don’t want to encourage future attempts.

How does this all end?
It doesn’t, of course; as Dr. Manhattan says in Watchmen, nothing ever ends. There will continue to be a Left and Right in America, and they will continue to argue and oppose each other and dislike each other. Forever.

But the Cold Civil War as we now know it may end. That will happen when both the Right and the Left realize and accepts that America is, and will continue to be, a functional multiracial democracy. In addition to the steps I listed above, there are some encouraging factors that may help hasten the end of this terrible era of unrest.

Racial depolarization is one. In the 2020 election, Trump lost White suburban votes but GAINED votes among Hispanic and Asian voters (and even a little bit among Black voters). That’s bad news for leftist and liberal ideology in the long term, since it suggests that a demographically driven permanent majority is unlikely. But it’s a glimmer of good news for the end of the Cold Civil War, because hopefully it will make the Right realize that they are not in imminent danger of demographic doom. Anything that reduces the Right’s maxed-out threat perception is good.

It will also be easier to end the Cold Civil War if Republican leaders start calling for it to end. There are a few encouraging signs on this front. Mitch McConnell and many other Republican leaders explicitly denounced 1/6 as an “insurrection”, and Tom Cotton has shown the GOP a way forward by positioning himself firmly in opposition to the coup attempt. The GOP is not going to drop its love of public order, but a leadership that views law-and-order ideology in racially and ideologically neutral terms would go a long way toward disabusing Republican voters that an actual civil war is in the offing. (Of course, denouncing and disavowing Trump, his attempted election theft, and the Republicans like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley who supported that attempt would help a lot.) Republicans need to retreat, retrench, regroup, continue cultivating nonwhite Americans, and wait for the Dems and the Left to overreach so they can stage a comeback. To do this, they need to expel the Trumpists, insurrectionists, and alt-righters from their ranks.

Finally, Americans may simply get exhausted. Peter Turchin, who believes he can predict waves of social unrest (and who successfully predicted the Cold Civil War back in 2010), incorporates exhaustion into his model, and thinks the peak of unrest will come sometime in the early 2020s. Past waves of unrest in the 1920s and 1970s killed a lot of people and scared the heck out of many more, but ultimately never toppled the nation or caused civil wars.

So I think we’re in for some more years of the Cold Civil War. Cold wars aren’t like hot wars — they don’t end with a bang. But if we hold firm, I think we can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the late 2020s.

Thoughts on America's Cold Civil War


This was great analysis. Only thing I disagree with is:

The Establishment is not really liberal at least not in the FDR or Bernie Sanders sense of the word. The Establishment is the Professional Management Class and they are controlled by white oligarchs and corporations.

The Republicans only true philosophy is white supremacy. Anything else that doesn't fit gets :camby:.
 

BaggerofTea

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Did these people really try to seize power of the government? Otherwise it's not a coup.

The one thing you white people are going to have to stop doing to turn this ship around is stop deflecting from your racist/authoritarian cohorts.

You are no different from them
 

Starman

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National Divorce Is Expensive, But It's Worth Every Penny

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For the last several years, I’ve been among a handful of commentators (along with good friends Michael Malice, Jesse Kelly, Michael Anton, and others) talking about the possibility or desirability of National Divorce, the political separation of Blue and Red America—or, to get more specific and inflammatory, the breakup or dissolution of the United States.

This week, my friend Karol Markowicz has written a typically thoughtful piece on the subject at the New York Post and concludes that, as much as many people long for some kind of separation that would solve the many real problems of America’s current disunion, it’s not a solution that’s currently feasible.

As with any breakup or divorce, even if we had a popular consensus for a National Divorce in principle, there are all kinds of details—and massive, very thorny ones, like who gets which territories, populations, industries or nuclear weapons caches—that could cause tumultuous and potentially violent negotiations. All these points of contention are very real and shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand; they’re not going anywhere. The seriousness of these issues and their daunting solutions are meant to prove that the breakup of the United States will always be an impossibility.

But that’s not right. National Divorce or some other, more tragic and chaotic outcome won’t be impossible forever. Despite heaping dollops of patriotic propaganda—which, admittedly, is essential to maintenance of the citizens’ faith in the regime—one day, the United States will end. History teaches us that regimes, like all human creations, rise and fall—and world-bestriding empires fall harder, faster, and more surely than that. Admitting this is a possibility isn’t as accurate as understanding it as a certainty; yes, the timeline is hazy, but it’s coming.

And, as one approaches the crisis and contempt between Americans builds beyond what is currently imaginable, those thorny points of contention—heretofore enough to reduce National Divorce to a laugh-line—become real objects of debate and deliberative thought. There is a price, for example, at which the hard work of pulling oil from the ground in a place is so prohibitively expensive, even discussing it seems foolish. However, when circumstances change—maybe global supply wanes and prices rise dramatically—areas believed to be too costly for drilling suddenly become feasible.

It’s interesting that those with the strongest objections to National Divorce today seem to base their (admittedly legitimate) worry about those horrific split-up scenarios rather than make a principled, Lincolnesque argument about the insolubility of the Union. Of course, appeals to Boomer Patriotism still exist, but I’m not sure if that kind of thing gets very many people going anymore. As that generation recedes from its long reign over the nation’s political and cultural life—to be replaced by a more combative cohort weaned on civilizational exhaustion and a sense of impending collapse—we’ll see even less.

I think this says a lot about where we are, “what time it is,” and how nearly all of us who follow political and social life here in America have a kind of understanding that there’s no way back from our state of disunion. While there might be small valves—like presidential or congressional elections—to temporarily alleviate some of the pressure and sense of impending conflict, the issues on which we disagree are too profound and foundational to ever just recede into the background.

In Closing of the American Mind, Allan Bloom made a very elegant and convincing case that, above other forces in human life, ideas matter most. I’ve thought about Bloom a lot as I’ve spent the last several years writing, tweeting and speaking about the big things tearing America apart. As I’ve argued, the differences between Red and Blue America are far deeper than any issues we interact with on the surface; they’re essentially pre-political—at least in the sense of very temporal, issues-based, hot-button nonsense we consider “politics” today.

The political philosophers, however, would say that the issues dividing us are absolutely political, in the original and most elemental sense: we have in America today what are, essentially, two competing, radically different and mutually exclusive conceptions of the Good, of justice, and of the proper role of the state in its interactions with its citizens.

Over the last decade especially, we’ve seen how these conceptions expand with great intensity and speed into areas that were once relatively apolitical and would’ve perplexed our grandparents, like the reality of human biology or its malleability according to ideology (via the trans issue). As time goes on, even more of reality itself will become a battleground.

If we disagree on these big things—which will necessarily manifest in every political issue, large or small—what strong force could possibly re-unite us? Or, to ask a question that’s perhaps more pertinent—maybe not today or tomorrow, but soon: what force could keep us from coming apart?

The most perceptive observers of America have known that this was always a perilous position for a large, multi-ethnic, ideological (or “propositional”) constitutional state. As time goes on, and the ideology on which the legitimacy of the state rests necessarily changes or becomes contentious between large segments of the population, what’s left around which the great majority of citizens can rally?

Not ethnicity or religion; these are two strong identity conceptions that have the power to unite people in smaller, less diverse states. Not patriotism emerging from a reverence for the nation’s history and heroic founding story, either. The Left has worked with great zeal to undermine all of these things because it wants to unite Americans under nothing but its own ideology. The 1619 Project is only the most successful, high-profile effort to undermine the legitimacy—and, even more importantly, the virtue and goodness—of the American regime and its Founding. It, along with related cults like Critical Race Theory, forms the political ethos that has thoroughly consumed Blue America.

As the late Angelo Codevilla wrote, these differences amount to nothing less than a “cold civil war,” and the primary role of the responsible statesman is to prevent it from going “hot.” Codevilla’s answer was federalism—but the great man was wise enough to know that, by itself, our old conception of federalism was no longer a reasonable or viable answer.

For more than a century, Progressives have dedicated themselves to abolishing the legitimacy of federalism, and then reconstituting the federal government and the courts in order to make its application and practice all but impossible. Over time, as their fanaticism grew, the Left’s position hardened, from the mere undesirability of local differences and state sovereignty to the illegitimacy, unjustness, and unfathomable evil of such an arrangement.

In order to return to a time of relative public consensus on these things, one side must impose its will on the other. While Red America isn’t really interested in imposing its will on Blue America, it’s clear that the reverse is emphatically not true.

In a famous 1964 speech, Ronald Reagan said about last century’s Cold War, “there’s only one guaranteed way you can have peace, and you can have it in the next second: surrender.” This might be the unstated solution proffered by mainstream right commentariat, but is this the best we can do?

Because it’s just over the horizon of what we can imagine from our vantage point, National Divorce isn’t at all an immediate action plan--or, at least, I don’t see it as such. Rather, it is a rhetorical strategy to prepare the ground for crucial discussions about what comes next in America, as the country grows even more divided, bitter, and angry.

More than anything else, it is a reminder for Red America to think about economic and cultural autonomy for itself, and what it would take to get there.

Autonomy for Red America is of crucial importance, regardless of the status of political or real separation. It is the ability for Americans to be self-sufficient from the financial, educational and cultural institutions that are hostile to its beliefs and way of life, and make reconciliation increasingly impossible.
 

NZA

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How would you define the establishment? How would you describe their overall political leanings?
by any reasonable measure, america is right wing. even the democrats are right wing but more moderate than the republicans. the left are irrelevant politically but have some influence over culture, especially among gen z and millennials, but that is where it ends. our economy and foreign policy are in no way a left wing project. our constant warfare and embargo on cuba, our prison system, our out of control billionaire class, our lack of healthcare as a human right. i mean, this is just self evident.
 

Starman

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by any reasonable measure, america is right wing. even the democrats are right wing but more moderate than the republicans. the left are irrelevant politically but have some influence over culture, especially among gen z and millennials, but that is where it ends. our economy and foreign policy are in no way a left wing project. our constant warfare and embargo on cuba, our prison system, our out of control billionaire class, our lack of healthcare as a human right. i mean, this is just self evident.

And you'd say this applies to the news media, academia, big tech, Hollywood? The Washington bureaucracy? All right wing?
 

NZA

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And you'd say this applies to the news media, academia, big tech, Hollywood? The Washington bureaucracy? All right wing?
news media is pro war, anti palestine, pro capitalism, etc.
hollywood is pro war (actually works with branches of military), pro capitalism, etc.
big tech is libertarian
im not sure what specifically constitutes "washington beaurocracy" as a constituency or institution, but federal law enforcement enforces white supremacy and prevents leftist movements (COINTELPRO), intelligence agencies maintain neocolonial status quo over the "global south".

hollywood does display some leftist culture, which is what i was alluding to in my previous post. it makes space for women, POC, and LGBT folk to have some representation in some projects. it is often very cringy and cynical how they do it, but it is enough to trigger republicans. this is still culture through commodification and not policy, and we shouldnt really get the two confused. hollywood follows money, not genuine ideals. straight white christians are still tacitly the default subjects of most hollywood projects, and the themes of movies do not encourage thinking systemically about problems.

big tech has some nice george floyd tweets. still not policy, and when they do lobby for policy, it is typically pro-corporation and anti-regulation.
 
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And you'd say this applies to the news media, academia, big tech, Hollywood? The Washington bureaucracy? All right wing?
Imagine implying that big tech, Washington bureaucracy and news media aren’t right wing. There’s no fukking way you’re American if you think it isn’t. And if you are you’re insanely misinformed.

Facebook had a whistleblower come yesterday and say they’re purposely pushing tons of right wing shyt. Like you fukking kidding me dude

NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
 

Starman

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news media is pro war, anti palestine, pro capitalism, etc.
Definitely pro war, don't know about anti Palestinian or pro capitalism tho. Depending on where you sit you probably view coverage of those last two differently.

But do you think media coverage of liberals is the same as conservatives?
hollywood is pro war (actually works with branches of military), pro capitalism, etc.
big tech is libertarian
I don't think it PURELY left, but still left...
im not sure what specifically constitutes "washington beaurocracy" as a constituency or institution, but federal law enforcement enforces white supremacy and prevents leftist movements (COINTELPRO), intelligence agencies maintain neocolonial status quo over the "global south".
As true as that was, how do they vote today? Look at DC, MD, and VA. They vote for the mainstream left party. Dems.
hollywood does display some leftist culture, which is what i was alluding to in my previous post. it makes space for women, POC, and LGBT folk to have some representation in some projects. it is often very cringy and cynical how they do it, but it is enough to trigger republicans. this is still culture through commodification and not policy, and we shouldnt really get the two confused. hollywood follows money, not genuine ideals. straight white christians are still tacitly the default subjects of most hollywood projects, and the themes of movies do not encourage thinking systemically about problems.
Hollywood isn't in the policy making business, but it's left. Even if it doesn't pass your rather high bar.
big tech has some nice george floyd tweets. still not policy, and when they do lobby for policy, it is typically pro-corporation and anti-regulation.

Big tech isn't Congress, of course it's not policy. But it is left in it politics, on the whole. You're a purist. Or determined to be an underdog.

Facebook had a whistleblower come yesterday and say they’re purposely pushing tons of right wing shyt. Like you fukking kidding me dude

NPR Cookie Consent and Choices

About 98% of political contributions from internet companies this cycle went to Democrats, according to the Center for Responsive Politics
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/02/tech-billionaire-2020-election-donations-final-tally.html

This leftist underdog, us against the world, there are no real leftists worldview is a surefire way to keep pushing but it's not reality.

And I'm not saying the US is left compared to Europe. I'm saying by and large it's left compared to how it was.
 
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