The Two Remaining Horsemen In A System Reboot -Official LA Clippers '24 off season thread

pete clemenza

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It's tough to say. Short of a third star I don't know what sort of upgrade dramatically improves this team. But the minutes crunch is real. I think the biggest thing going into next season is Kawhi and PG being healthy and us being out of the playin.

I know some folks want a traditional point guard but there's a short list of players I'd be ok taking the ball out of Kawhi and Paul's (dumbass turnovers aside) hands for -- Conley, Lowry, Jrue, Sga lol... don't get what a Cam Payne level player does for this team.

All of this could be moot as players get hurt and minutes may naturally open up.

I disagree about Kawhi/PG being on the clock. I think them being on the clock would mean we have some sort of alternative oath forward available to us. I have faith in the front office but we're rocking with these two until the wheels fall off. Outside of the bubble season I feel like theyve done everything they could have.
Its on the clock in the sense that half the roster, namely older players like Reggie, Morris, Batum, are on the team because they're a good fit to surround Kawhi & PG with. God forbid this doesn't happen, but lets just say if they were to get hurt again and miss significant time, then you can't just do yet another season of .500 ball with heavy minutes to guys like Morris and Reggie -just spinning and treadmilling another season away when you could be at least playing the youth and doing some player development. We just lost two straight play in games in the exact same way where Reggie and Morris both got 40+ minutes, got gassed beyond belief, and now were out of the playoffs season over. We're basically hording older players to help Kawhi and PG but Kawhi and PG aren't playing. Need to switch to Golden State model and play youth with the older star vets and at least get something out of this while we wait and wait and wait.
 

pete clemenza

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I'm thinking the clear a lane out for Brandon Boston next season. You know he's going to kill it in the offseason in every facet. Trade Morris and maybe Batum and move him ahead of Mann in the rotation. There's no reason he can't at least be our Jordan Poole. I'm hoping for the best and want see us kill shyt next season with a healthy team. Also how does Powell fit on the team if Kawhi and PG are healthy? He could become a trade piece as well. I also want to see if the Preston kid has any game or not at point guard next season. Hart had a nice season but you could tell he was shook when the lights got bright in the play ins. Mann has regressed on offense big time. I thought for sure he'd give us at least ten points last night. RoCo wasn't shooting either. This sucks
 

pete clemenza

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I think getting Covington back is a top priority. That may mean Marcus’s time is up if they can land a solid big for him. Batum should sign back for short money since he’s dude 8 million from the Hornets next year anyway.

Probably need a legit point guard at this point. I wonder if a Morris/throw-in deal could land someone like Malcolm Brogdon. I wouldn’t even sleep on them trying to go after Dame. I wouldn’t gut the roster for him though. PG and Kawhi healthy can win the west.
Definitely have to move Morris and RoCo needs to be the guys staying. Might have to let Batum walk. Malcolm Brogdon could be a third star who's hurt all the time just like our dynamic duo and at $22 million per for the next three years I'm steering clear of him. Gotta draft a point guard in the 2nd round and see if Jason Preston can play
 

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Its on the clock in the sense that half the roster, namely older players like Reggie, Morris, Batum, are on the team because they're a good fit to surround Kawhi & PG with. God forbid this doesn't happen, but lets just say if they were to get hurt again and miss significant time, then you can't just do yet another season of .500 ball with heavy minutes to guys like Morris and Reggie -just spinning and treadmilling another season away when you could be at least playing the youth and doing some player development. We just lost two straight play in games in the exact same way where Reggie and Morris both got 40+ minutes, got gassed beyond belief, and now were out of the playoffs season over. We're basically hording older players to help Kawhi and PG but Kawhi and PG aren't playing. Need to switch to Golden State model and play youth with the older star vets and at least get something out of this while we wait and wait and wait.
Ah, gotcha, I thought you were saying we're going to need to move on from them.

I'm thinking the clear a lane out for Brandon Boston next season. You know he's going to kill it in the offseason in every facet. Trade Morris and maybe Batum and move him ahead of Mann in the rotation. There's no reason he can't at least be our Jordan Poole. I'm hoping for the best and want see us kill shyt next season with a healthy team. Also how does Powell fit on the team if Kawhi and PG are healthy? He could become a trade piece as well. I also want to see if the Preston kid has any game or not at point guard next season. Hart had a nice season but you could tell he was shook when the lights got bright in the play ins. Mann has regressed on offense big time. I thought for sure he'd give us at least ten points last night. RoCo wasn't shooting either. This sucks
I think Powell is probably the third best player on this team right now. I think he also fills the void of a third player with some juice that can get his own shot. His assist numbers I think will also improve playing with a lot of great shooters. Boston hasn't shown me he can be anything more than a gunner at this point -- which is fine he's a rookie but getting him minutes doesn't strike me as a priority. I didn't watch a lot of the warriors this season but I'm sure Poole is a better defender. Powell is a way better offersive player now and Mann is a way better defensive player (did regress on offense. I don't knownif he got worse but he's not agressive enough). Ideally we'd have one player to do what both of those guys do and maybe it can be Boston but it isn't right now.

Definitely have to move Morris and RoCo needs to be the guys staying. Might have to let Batum walk. Malcolm Brogdon could be a third star who's hurt all the time just like our dynamic duo and at $22 million per for the next three years I'm steering clear of him. Gotta draft a point guard in the 2nd round and see if Jason Preston can play
Batum seemed worse this season. But him and Mook might have been suffering from the same shyt reggie was where they were just overtasked.
 

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It's tough to say. Short of a third star I don't know what sort of upgrade dramatically improves this team. But the minutes crunch is real. I think the biggest thing going into next season is Kawhi and PG being healthy and us being out of the playin.

I know some folks want a traditional point guard but there's a short list of players I'd be ok taking the ball out of Kawhi and Paul's (dumbass turnovers aside) hands for -- Conley, Lowry, Jrue, Sga lol... don't get what a Cam Payne level player does for this team.

All of this could be moot as players get hurt and minutes may naturally open up.

I disagree about Kawhi/PG being on the clock. I think them being on the clock would mean we have some sort of alternative oath forward available to us. I have faith in the front office but we're rocking with these two until the wheels fall off. Outside of the bubble season I feel like theyve done everything they could have.

That should be the move
Get SGA back

no picks this time though :mjlol:
 

Primetime

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It's tough to say. Short of a third star I don't know what sort of upgrade dramatically improves this team. But the minutes crunch is real. I think the biggest thing going into next season is Kawhi and PG being healthy and us being out of the playin.

I know some folks want a traditional point guard but there's a short list of players I'd be ok taking the ball out of Kawhi and Paul's (dumbass turnovers aside) hands for -- Conley, Lowry, Jrue, Sga lol... don't get what a Cam Payne level player does for this team.

Agreed.

Tbh tho, 3 years later and y’all still talking about acquiring a traditional point guard... when highkey the Celtics already stole y’all’s blueprint and showed y’all what it’d look like idealized:

They got rid of their midget point guards; got nothing but rugged 3/D wings, and have 2 mobile defensive bigs (TimeLord, Horford) that are constant lob threats, can switch everything, and will dominate the glass. Basically elite defense, and selling out on Tatum/Brown Kawhi/PG making the right reads on offense.

You guys have the rugged wings but need to address the other two aspects. Granted, someone like TimeLord doesn’t grow on trees, unless you pay/trade for a premium version of him i.e. Gobert. Which is probably too pricey.
 

pete clemenza

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Agreed.

Tbh tho, 3 years later and y’all still talking about acquiring a traditional point guard... when highkey the Celtics already stole y’all’s blueprint and showed y’all what it’d look like idealized:

They got rid of their midget point guards; got nothing but rugged 3/D wings, and have 2 mobile defensive bigs (TimeLord, Horford) that are constant lob threats, can switch everything, and will dominate the glass. Basically elite defense, and selling out on Tatum/Brown Kawhi/PG making the right reads on offense.

You guys have the rugged wings but need to address the other two aspects. Granted, someone like TimeLord doesn’t grow on trees, unless you pay/trade for a premium version of him i.e. Gobert. Which is probably too pricey.
First we gotta get Kawhi & PG in uniform on a consistent basis like a Tatum & Brown:francis: And if course we need a traditional pg
 

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Athletic write up on the potential off-season activity:

The 2021-22 NBA season is over for the LA Clippers despite a 42-40 record. While the Play-In Tournament resulted in a disappointing end and a loss of a playoff spot a year the Clippers made the conference finals for the first time in franchise history, it was a memorable season, nonetheless.

“We’re building the right culture, going in the right direction,” Clippers head coach Tyronn Lue said after Friday night’s season-ending loss to the New Orleans Pelicans. “Our next step is we just got to stay healthy at some point hopefully.”

To recap: That’s a major re-signing, a significant injury, a head coach change, major star acquisitions, multiple lottery picks from the previous time the Clippers missed the postseason, a front-office shakeup and a trade to end an era.

Don’t expect any of that in the next six months. When Lue was asked about who he wants back from his roster, he said “everybody.”

“We get our main guys back. I mean, we can be dangerous,” Lue said Friday night in what was his de facto exit interview. “Health is part of it. We got to stay healthy, continue to work. Like I said, right now we got what we got. Proud of our guys in the locker room. Nothing to hang their heads about.”

The Clippers have six potential free agents, not including expiring two-way contracts Jay Scrubb and Xavier Moon. Robert Covington, Isaiah Hartenstein and Rodney Hood are unrestricted free agents, while Amir Coffey is a restricted free agent. Ivica Zubac has a team option and Nicolas Batum has a player option. Here’s a Clippers depth chart entering the offseason that accounts for those temporarily vacated spots, followed by six offseason queries to be addressed:

Kawhi Leonard’s return to health
The door remained opened for Kawhi Leonard to return at some point this postseason after Leonard spent the entire 2021-22 regular season rehabbing from July knee surgery to repair a partially torn right ACL suffered last June in Game 4 against the Utah Jazz. But the door closed as the Clippers failed to earn a seven-game series, marking the first time ever that a team with Leonard failed to qualify for the postseason.

Of course, the silver lining is as shiny as it could be for Leonard, at least physically. If Leonard is ready for the regular-season opener in October, he will be 15 months removed from surgery. The mental hurdle of recovering from an ACL injury is not as objective, and the only way to clear that obstacle is to get back to playing consistently.

But the setback Leonard had of not being able to play at all in his age-30 season sets him up for another comeback. The last time Leonard missed a significant number of games in a season was his final year with the San Antonio Spurs in 2017-18. That season, he was limited to just nine games as he dealt with right quadriceps tendinopathy. After scoring 19 points in 28 minutes in a win over Denver on Jan. 13, he never played again in a Spurs uniform. Leonard was then traded to the Toronto Raptors, played 60 regular-season games while never playing on zero days’ rest, and ultimately won his second NBA Finals MVP before coming home to the Clippers.

That is the best-case scenario for the Clippers, and Leonard has a partner in George who will also be looking to bounce back after a season sidetracked by a long-term injury. George entering health and safety protocols the morning of a Play-In elimination game was terrible luck, but George’s silver lining is that the torn UCL in his right elbow that limited him to 31 games and 1,077 minutes healed. George won’t have the mental hurdle entering next season that Leonard will have.

Leonard and George re-establishing the on-court synergy that was peaking right when Leonard was hurt will be a season-long project in 2022-23. Both will at least have a full offseason to physically be ready and there won’t be the pressure of either being in a contract year since both have player options in the 2024 offseason.

Clippers point guards
Multiple players spoke Friday night after the Clippers were eliminated by the Pelicans, with the last being power forward Marcus Morris Sr. When Morris was asked about what the Clippers could add to be a title contender, Morris said it was a tough question on a night full of them. But he also had a direct answer.

“I would say one of our biggest needs is a backup point guard,” Morris said. “We played a lot of the season without one.”

To Morris’ point, Reggie Jacksonstarted all 75 of the games he appeared in this past season at point guard. In seven games that Jackson missed, the Clippers started Eric Bledsoe four times when Jackson was in health and safety protocols and Terance Mannthree times when Jackson was rested in the final month of the season.

Rookie Keon Johnson and COVID-hardship signee Moon were Bledsoe’s backups when Jackson was in protocols, while Moon re-joined the team to end the season on a two-way contract for Jackson’s last two rest days. Bledsoe and Johnson were traded in February to Portland as part of the deal that sent Norman Powell and Robert Covington to the Clippers, and Mann was entrusted with backup point guard duties exclusively for the final two months of the season.

Mann was basically the backup point guard when the season started as well, since Jackson and Bledsoe were in the starting lineup together for the first month of the season. Justise Winslowwas talked about in training camp as a potential backup point guard, but his shooting difficulties left him out of the rotation for an extended period of time, and he was a power forward when he did play prior to being included in the Portland trade.

“T. Mann did a great job stepping in, being a backup PG,” Morris said. “The whole season we didn’t have a backup point guard. That’s probably the biggest thing.”

Despite the concerns, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Clippers run it back with the same group of ballhandlers. The anticipated return of the Leonard-George tandem theoretically limits who will handle the ball anyway. Jackson’s usage should plummet in a good way next season, where he could possibly return to 2021 postseason levels of efficiency.

Powell’s presence on the roster puts another potentially high usage ballhandler on the floor. And the wing surplus means that players would play out of their traditional position but play an appropriate role in a nominal position. In those cases, you could see Mann as a nominal backup point guard but doing all of the things that Mann does across positions.

The Clippers also have Jason Preston, a 2021 second-round pick who missed his entire rookie season due to October foot surgery. Frank called Preston the second-best passer in his draft class behind Oklahoma City lottery pick Josh Giddey.

If a veteran is going to come in and fill the position of a backup point guard, it will probably come at the expense of one of the many wing or wing-adjacent players on the team. And even then, it is probably more important to the Clippers that the supporting players around Leonard and George can shoot and/or defend more than run pick-and-roll offense and need to be protected elsewhere.

When does the trade come?
In the last five seasons, the Clippers have moved a veteran each time. This past winter saw Serge Ibaka relocated after the trade that sent out Bledsoe, Winslow and the rookie Johnson. In 2021, Williams was traded. In 2020, Morris was acquired in a trade that cost a first-round pick. In 2019, Tobias Harris was traded to Philadelphia. In 2018, Griffin was moved to Detroit. That’s every midseason of the front office era led by Frank and general manager Michael Winger.

So, who is next? And when?

I’d list Leonard and George as untouchable, for obvious reasons. They are the era that this team is in, and it’s only at the midpoint, with both under contract for at least two more seasons and an option for a third. Jackson is entering a contract year, but I’d be surprised to see the Clippers trade a player who adds so much to the team’s culture and chemistry. Powell just got here. Mann’s extension doesn’t even kick in until 2023. Preston and Brandon Boston Jr. are in development. The respective options for Zubac and Batum leave them as tradeable options if exercised, but if those options are picked up, they’re extremely team friendly.

That leaves Morris and Kennard.

Morris is under contract for two more seasons and will be 33 years old when next season starts. That’s the same age Patrick Beverley was when the Clippers traded him last offseason. If Beverley was a durability concern for the Clippers, then that may be something that is a factor for Morris as well. 2020 and 2021 were truncated offseasons due to the coronavirus pandemic, and Morris’ knees weren’t ready to begin either season. Morris missed the first eight games of the 2020-21 season and 15 of the first 17 games of 2021-22 season due to right knee soreness.

But to Morris’ credit, he did not miss another game due to injury after returning on Thanksgiving week. On the floor, Morris was Lue’s primary option after timeouts and he was still a decent 3-point shooter (36.7 percent, down from 47.3 percent in 2021-22) despite moving up several spots on the scouting report with Leonard and George missing so much time. Off the floor, Morris was a steady leader in the locker room.

“I’m naturally a leader,” Morris said Friday night. “The early part of the season I missed a lot of games, too. Maybe that was the quiet time. Once I started playing, started leading, kind of bringing the guys together. I thought we had a really good group. Locker room presence was really well.”

Kennard is also under contract for two more seasons, with the Clippers holding a team option for 2024-25. There wasn’t a more accurate 3-point shooter in the NBA last season than Kennard, who made 44.9 percent of his career-high 423 attempts. LA’s offense was 2.9 points per 100 possessions better with Kennard on the floor, which was behind only Covington and Hartenstein among the 13 Clippers who played more than 500 minutes this season. Kennard’s defense also improved after Lue was constantly concerned about Kennard’s fit on that end of the floor in 2020-21.

The Clippers were hurt by Kennard’s absence in the Play-In games, even though Powell was in the second unit. George, Powell and Kennard played only one game together all season, and it was against a Sacramento Kings team that had nothing to play for this month.

Like Morris, I’d expect Kennard to be in training camp with the Clippers. But that won’t stop the trade machines from mentioning things like the fact that Morris and Kennard’s figures for 2022-23 match up with the $30 million owed to Sacramento point guard De’Aaron Fox.

It’s also worth mentioning that the Clippers have two traded player exceptions. One is for $8.2 million and expires in mid-July. The other is for $9.7 million and expires in February 2023.
 

Squirrel from Meteor Man

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Continued:
Decisions for Nicolas Batum and Robert Covington
Batum was supposed to key Lue’s second unit when the season started. But injuries to Morris, Batum himself, and then George put Batum in the starting lineup permanently by mid-January.

And then the Clippers acquired Covington in February, and a constant refrain was how Covington gave the Clippers “two Nicos.” The other common feedback about Covington was how it seemed like he had been on the team for two years, not two months. Now both have decisions to make about their future.

Batum and Covington addressed the media after Friday’s elimination game. They both sounded like they wanted to be back in Clippers black next season.

“Of course,” Covington said Friday when asked about if he thought about what it would look like if he was on the floor with Leonard and George. “The way that we played tonight, we went small. Imagine P.G. and Kawhi in that lineup. That’s a lot of versatility, a lot of toughness. … Once them guys come back next year, if I’m here, I’m really looking forward to that.”

“We know what we’re going to be next year, the goals for next year,” Batum said Friday. “Move on now. Can’t really think about just what happened. Was a strange season for us. We’ve done some good stuff. We got to move on and look forward to September.”

Batum is in a similar situation to Ibaka from last offseason as far as having a player option. It sounds like Batum expects to decline that option like Ibaka did last summer and return for $3.3 million. But Batum also shook his head when asked if he thought about the option Friday.

If Leonard was the top free-agency priority for the Clippers last season, then this season is Covington. The Clippers outscored foes by 11.9 points per 100 possessions in Covington’s 509 minutes on the team; the next best figure was Hartenstein’s impact at 9.6 points per 100 possessions in 1,216 minutes. Covington shot the 3 in LA better than he ever had (45.0 percent on 4.7 attempts), while adding a combo ability to get steals (1.3 per game) and blocks (1.2).

With next season being Covington’s 10th in the NBA after being undrafted out of Tennessee State in 2013, he has made his priority clear at this stage of his career.

“Nobody thought I would make it 10 years,” Covington said Friday. “They said I wouldn’t make it two. I’m getting ready to prepare for my tenth year. I’ve had a great career thus far. Made a name for myself. Like I said, I want to put myself in the best position to win a championship.”

A two or three-year deal for Covington, who will be 32 years old in March, seems sensible for a player who can be a big small forward or a rim protector in small-ball lineups. Perhaps Batum and Covington could both be in the second unit at the four and five, respectively. And if Morris, Batum and Covington all return, perhaps there would be some nights were Batum does not play as he enters his 15th NBA season.

There’s a lot to determine, but the biggest changes in terms of transactions for the Clippers this offseason will come down to these veteran power forwards.

Center free agency
Like the power forward position, the Clippers have two centers who aren’t yet under team control for the 2022-23 season.

Zubac established himself (again) as the team’s starting center shortly after the 2021 All-Star break. After an offseason spent recovering from a sprained right MCL, Zubac got off to a slow start in 2021-22. But overall, Zubac compiled career-highs in points (10.3), rebounds (8.5), assists (1.6), and blocks (1.0) in his sixth NBA season. Zubac is now the team’s longest-tenured player, even though he just turned 25 in March. It’s simple enough for the Clippers to pick up his option that is worth $7.5 million, but it will be interesting to see if an extension of sorts is explored.

Hartenstein’s situation is more complicated. No Clipper in training camp exceeded expectations more than Hartenstein, who beat out Harry Giles III and Moses Wright to make the team. Once Ibaka returned from back surgery, Hartenstein established himself in the second unit and made Ibaka expendable too. The Clippers guaranteed Hartenstein’s contract for the season during a four-week absence due to a sprained left ankle. Hartenstein impressed with his rim protection and passing, then showed off his range by making 8-of-13 3s in five April games.

Hartenstein will be 24 years old in May. He’s definitely in line for a raise, and perhaps more playing time. Given that Covington is likely the team’s top priority in unrestricted free agency, and that George and Leonard would allow Lue to use even more small lineups that crunch the traditional center minutes next season, would Hartenstein return to a role that does not have him playing every night at this stage of his career?

If the Clippers can’t bring Hartenstein back, then they will have a big hole to fill behind Zubac.
 
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Covington and Hartenstein are no-brainers to bring back, along with Batum since he'll likely take a smaller deal. I really want to see a Kawhi, PG, Nico, Cov and Mann lineup at some point next year.

The only move I really want to see is Mook traded. He played hard and stepped up while PG was out, but his style of play doesn't suit the team, IMO. If Morris Sr. has the ball, he's not gonna look for the extra pass or wait for a cutter, he's gunning it for a contested three or midrange shot. Covington is a better, less selfish version of Morris + Mook's defense has fallen off greatly.
 

Primetime

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First we gotta get Kawhi & PG in uniform on a consistent basis like a Tatum & Brown:francis:
This is a fair point lol.

And if course we need a traditional pg

BOS doesn't have nor need a traditional pg bc Ime has Tatum, Brown, Smart committed to read n react ball movement, and the personnel around them (catch n shoot, catch n drive, catch lobs, etc) compliment them... on offense and defense. The 8-9 man rotation is synergistic.

That's what LAC needs. Going back to those 3 elements i mentioned.
 

KFBF

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Tbh tho, 3 years later and y’all still talking about acquiring a traditional point guard
Yeah, I disagree with that being a team need. I got multiple posts saying I don't want a “traditional pg” because that got us bum ass rondo. The level of player we can sign outright or trade for isn't going to make a significant difference. We should definitely add more depth at the position but I don't believe it has to be a traditional pg.
 

FooFighters

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Covington and Hartenstein are no-brainers to bring back, along with Batum since he'll likely take a smaller deal. I really want to see a Kawhi, PG, Nico, Cov and Mann lineup at some point next year.

The only move I really want to see is Mook traded. He played hard and stepped up while PG was out, but his style of play doesn't suit the team, IMO. If Morris Sr. has the ball, he's not gonna look for the extra pass or wait for a cutter, he's gunning it for a contested three or midrange shot. Covington is a better, less selfish version of Morris + Mook's defense has fallen off greatly.
Mook has no lateral quickness. Attackers would just blow by him.

Yeah, I disagree with that being a team need. I got multiple posts saying I don't want a “traditional pg” because that got us bum ass rondo. The level of player we can sign outright or trade for isn't going to make a significant difference. We should definitely add more depth at the position but I don't believe it has to be a traditional pg.
Don't forget Milos.
 

pete clemenza

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A motivated-revenge tour Wall coming onboard. A potential full or 80% healthy season from Kawhi & PG.

Then its: Morris(maybe moved), Kennard(maybe moved), Mann, RoCo, Powell, Big Zu with a new deal, Boston Jr. to make a leap, Batum hopefully resigning, Jason Preston as a potential backup pg, Hartenstein is probably gone, Coffey(might find a deal elsewhere), Rodney Hood(?), and I like this 2nd round pick Diabate who has some nice upside imo. We're stacked brehs. I see a move or two maybe with Morris Sr and Kennard or maybe not. Some cats on Reddit talkin about going after Bobby Portis or Mo Bomba.. we're looking good on paper so far. Lets make this a reality brehs:wow:




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