Essential The Official MMA Thread

[TheDarceKnight]

My thing is this. Khabib never even said he was the GOAT. He asked the UFC to rank him P4P #1 at the moment, and that's it. Jon is the one bringing up the GOAt debate, and it reminds me of when Lebron did it. Your fans are supposed to do the GOAT talking for you, not yourself.

I'm a huge Jones fan, and I'm not definitely saying he's NOT the GOAT, but here are some things to consider.

- He popped for PEDs, and ever since USADA, he's looked way less impressive
- He should've lost the first fight with Gus and the Reyes fight. He got lucky on those decisions.

In my mind they're both undefeated. I don't really count Jones' DQ loss, but every name on the GOAt contender list other than Khabib has struggled in at least one fight, and Khabib has never been cut, knocked down, taken down, or in any submission danger. The only knock against Khabib is that he never was able to fight Tony Ferguson. Besides him, he's battered every one of his peers at 155, even if he has less title defenses than GSP, Jones, Aldo, Mighty Mouse, etc.

Jones' PED failures alone make me inclined to put an asterisk next to his pre-USADA fights, but he's still in the GOAT contention to me,.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Edwards only has himself to blame, it's not like he was injured, he just kept purposely passing on fights

When the Woodley fight fell through due to COVID he should have looked to stay active - they offered him Wonderboy, who was ranked one spot below him, and he passed that up too

With that said though UFC needs to chill with this Chimaev hype, I feel like all this hype he keeps getting is setting him up to crash and burn

The UFC always pushes new stars too fast. I actually think Chimaev might be able to withstand the pressure and live up to the expectations, but he and the UFC should play it smart and build him up a bit more slowly. They’re fast tracking him too hard.

 

[Peter Parker]

My thing is this. Khabib never even said he was the GOAT. He asked the UFC to rank him P4P #1 at the moment, and that's it. Jon is the one bringing up the GOAt debate, and it reminds me of when Lebron did it. Your fans are supposed to do the GOAT talking for you, not yourself.

I'm a huge Jones fan, and I'm not definitely saying he's NOT the GOAT, but here are some things to consider.

- He popped for PEDs, and ever since USADA, he's looked way less impressive
- He should've lost the first fight with Gus and the Reyes fight. He got lucky on those decisions.

In my mind they're both undefeated. I don't really count Jones' DQ loss, but every name on the GOAt contender list other than Khabib has struggled in at least one fight, and Khabib has never been cut, knocked down, taken down, or in any submission danger. The only knock against Khabib is that he never was able to fight Tony Ferguson. Besides him, he's battered every one of his peers at 155, even if he has less title defenses than GSP, Jones, Aldo, Mighty Mouse, etc.

Jones' PED failures alone make me inclined to put an asterisk next to his pre-USADA fights, but he's still in the GOAT contention to me,.

Crazy how people hate Jon so much that they ignore the fact that USADA themselves said Jon was NOT an intentional drug cheat

 

[LinusCaldwell]

My thing is this. Khabib never even said he was the GOAT. He asked the UFC to rank him P4P #1 at the moment, and that's it. Jon is the one bringing up the GOAt debate, and it reminds me of when Lebron did it. Your fans are supposed to do the GOAT talking for you, not yourself.

I'm a huge Jones fan, and I'm not definitely saying he's NOT the GOAT, but here are some things to consider.

- He popped for PEDs, and ever since USADA, he's looked way less impressive
- He should've lost the first fight with Gus and the Reyes fight. He got lucky on those decisions.

In my mind they're both undefeated. I don't really count Jones' DQ loss, but every name on the GOAt contender list other than Khabib has struggled in at least one fight, and Khabib has never been cut, knocked down, taken down, or in any submission danger. The only knock against Khabib is that he never was able to fight Tony Ferguson. Besides him, he's battered every one of his peers at 155, even if he has less title defenses than GSP, Jones, Aldo, Mighty Mouse, etc.

Jones' PED failures alone make me inclined to put an asterisk next to his pre-USADA fights, but he's still in the GOAT contention to me,.

What’s the point of fighting for your innocence if people like you and others are gonna out * or take him out of the GOAT conversations because of the tainted supplements. Jones is damned if he does or not. I’m not going at you I’m just speaking in general. USADA cleared him. That conversation should be put to rest.

Jones crushed Gus in the second fight. He also is very much inclined to fight YOUR fight. That’s the craziness of Jones he doesn’t use “his” strengths he wants to fight you at your game and make it a challenge for him. Khabib’s reign on top was short like leprechauns and that’s ok. Again Jones is constantly defending himself. It’s no different than what Mayweather does who always defends himself. Jones is more of anomaly than Khabib both physically and in fighting. I don’t think Jones should have gotten to the status he’s at so he’s def incredible and def in talks of GOAT status for sure.

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Crazy how people hate Jon so much that they ignore the fact that USADA themselves said Jon was NOT an intentional drug cheat

Breh it’s a lose lose for Jon.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Crazy how people hate Jon so much that they ignore the fact that USADA themselves said Jon was NOT an intentional drug cheat

What’s the point of fighting for your innocence if people like you and others are gonna out * or take him out of the GOAT conversations because of the tainted supplements. Jones is damned if he does or not. I’m not going at you I’m just speaking in general. USADA cleared him. That conversation should be put to rest.

Jones crushed Gus in the second fight. He also is very much inclined to fight YOUR fight. That’s the craziness of Jones he doesn’t use “his” strengths he wants to fight you at your game and make it a challenge for him. Khabib’s reign on top was short like leprechauns and that’s ok. Again Jones is constantly defending himself. It’s no different than what Mayweather does who always defends himself. Jones is more of anomaly than Khabib both physically and in fighting. I don’t think Jones should have gotten to the status he’s at so he’s def incredible and def in talks of GOAT status for sure.

I won’t really argue with that. Y’all make good points. I know it comes off on some holier than thou shyt, and I don’t mean it to, but teaching martial arts is my career, and I’ve fought against people on steroids and it’s not fun.

I don’t know if Jon intentionally did anything or not, but as an athlete, what goes in your body is still your responsibility. The facts are that Jon competed against people when he was on PEDs and he tested hot for them. It sucks if he didn’t do them on purpose, but he has an advantage.

I love Jon. No hate. I’ve learned a ton from studying his fights and he’s on my bucket list to train with before I die.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Breh it’s a lose lose for Jon.

Unfortunately it really is. But you can’t entirely blame the fans and the pundits. Jon brought a LOT on himself that could’ve been avoided.

Like, he was bragging about his wife being too dumb to figure out he had multiple side pieces in ABQ before he was even champ. He refused to sign kids’ plastic UFC belts because he said they didn’t earn it and he said he would snitch on his friends for weed possession when he’s a known coke head.

I’d have way more respect for Jones if he just embraced the fact that he’s a heel and didn’t play the “I’m a nice Christian man” card.

Jones has lied about so much shyt over the years, and not taken responsibility as a man (like hitting a pregnant woman in a car and running away) that of course fans might not believe him when he says he didn’t take PEDs on purpose.

Jones could’ve avoided all that. Silva took PEDs and no one seems to have as much of a problem with him, and my guess is that it’s because he doesn’t have the history of fukkery like Jones

and despite me looking like I’m ranting, I promise I actually like jones. I think he’s a brilliant martial artist and Easily the most talented fighter to ever step in the octagon.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

@LinusCaldwell @Peter Parker
Some dope videos to appreciate Jones. For real. And he's still the only MMA fighter I know of in history to the finish an Americana in a championship fight (against Vitor too.) And his finish on Lyoto is a Mortal Kombat Fatality.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

To be p4p or the goat it's about who you beat. Bone Jones has beaten former Champs.

When you look back at all the former Champs bones Jones has beaten that alone is nuff said for his goat status.

For khabib da only real W on his record as champ is Connor. Sorry I do not count the RDA fight as khabib wasn't champ then and it was a 3 round fight, no championship rounds.

If you don't want to count Jones cous of PEDS that makes perfect sense. But I can't put khabib anywhere in the top 5 goats even. Gsp, Silva, Aldo, Hughes Randy Chuck even.

Beating a gaethe and a pointer just doesn't do it for him when comparing with other Champs.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

To be p4p or the goat it's about who you beat. Bone Jones has beaten former Champs.

When you look back at all the former Champs bones Jones has beaten that alone is nuff said for his goat status.

For khabib da only real W on his record as champ is Connor. Sorry I do not count the RDA fight as khabib wasn't champ then and it was a 3 round fight, no championship rounds.

If you don't want to count Jones cous of PEDS that makes perfect sense. But I can't put khabib anywhere in the top 5 goats even. Gsp, Silva, Aldo, Hughes Randy Chuck even.

Beating a gaethe and a pointer just doesn't do it for him when comparing with other Champs.

That’s fair. Jones brought up all the GOAT talk and opened Pandora’s box.

Khabib just asked (didn’t demand) that he be ranked #1 P4P currently as he retires. Not the GOAT. And I see the arguments for and against it.

I wish he wasn’t retiring so early but I get it. Personally, I hate that Conor held up the fukking division for so many years, because Khabib would likely have another 3 titles defenses on his record. Khabib, Tony, and BJ are my 3 favorite 155ers of all time.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

@Screwface Exchange dope ass avatar btw. No one knows about Bad Boy anymore

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Unfortunately it really is. But you can’t entirely blame the fans and the pundits. Jon brought a LOT on himself that could’ve been avoided.

Like, he was bragging about his wife being too dumb to figure out he had multiple side pieces in ABQ before he was even champ. He refused to sign kids’ plastic UFC belts because he said they didn’t earn it and he said he would snitch on his friends for weed possession when he’s a known coke head.

I’d have way more respect for Jones if he just embraced the fact that he’s a heel and didn’t play the “I’m a nice Christian man” card.

Jones has lied about so much shyt over the years, and not taken responsibility as a man (like hitting a pregnant woman in a car and running away) that of course fans might not believe him when he says he didn’t take PEDs on purpose.

Jones could’ve avoided all that. Silva took PEDs and no one seems to have as much of a problem with him, and my guess is that it’s because he doesn’t have the history of fukkery like Jones

and despite me looking like I’m ranting, I promise I actually like jones. I think he’s a brilliant martial artist and Easily the most talented fighter to ever step in the octagon.

I hear what you’re saying breh and I’m not gonna hold you. I know about many of his public faults and I don’t agree with how he has handled himself. People use the PED talk to go at him just like his bad choices in life but he’s a hell of a fighter and even with all the craziness outside of the octagon. He def handles his inside of it. I am a fan of both dudes and I wish Jones wasn’t a complicated individual outside of the octagon but he is. That’s his story and he’s been able to somehow still overcome.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

I hear what you’re saying breh and I’m not gonna hold you. I know about many of his public faults and I don’t agree with how he has handled himself. People use the PED talk to go at him just like his bad choices in life but he’s a hell of a fighter and even with all the craziness outside of the octagon. He def handles his inside of it. I am a fan of both dudes and I wish Jones wasn’t a complicated individual outside of the octagon but he is. That’s his story and he’s been able to somehow still overcome.

Also he’s clearly got demons and I hope he conquers them. I’ll always root for Jon

 

[YoNoSe]

Khabib deserves his props but Jon is the goat.

15 title fights, wins over numerous ex-champs, undefeated with the exception of the DQ and showed his toughness as he was pushed to the brink in the 1st fight with Alex G.

He’s a troubled person but the GOAT fighter

 

[Screwface Exchange]

How about this for a side angle, let's forget about the Jones goat talk.

Why should khabib be ranked higher in p4p list than Izzy and Usman? They are undefeated as well and Champs.

Or how about Mr stipe? Doesn't he have record for most hw title defenses. His w column is a who's who of former Champs Cormier JDS overrem werdum

Is gaethe, poirer on the level of scary striking as Francis or Mark hunt?

Telling y'all p4p he ain't it, goat nowhere close. Tell dat Russian bwoy 2 go retire in da mountains