The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Do you make it a habit of only reading the first sentences of posts you're responding to?

Only when the first sentence is an obvious failed strawman. Since the rest of the argument flows from it, it is invalid by default.​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Aid to Singapore... (can't get anything prior to 1981)....

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

1981 $21,720,000
1982 $20,410,000
1983 $14,350,000
1984 $40,160,000
1985 $23,250,000
1986 $29,300,000
1987 $23,270,000
1988 $21,890,000
1989 $94,830,000
1990 -$3,100,000
1991 $7,770,000
1992 $19,940,000
1993 $23,640,000
1994 $16,860,000
1995 $16,660,000
1996 $14,880,000
1997 $2,810,000
1998 $1,620,000
1999 -$1,110,000
2000 $1,090,000
2001 $850,000
2002 $7,190,000
2003 $7,070,000
2004 $9,140,000
Total $414,490,000

Population: 6.1 million.

Aid to Palestine......

A look at the billions of dollars in foreign aid to Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip in recent years to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living in the isolated, Hamas-ruled territory.

web.archive.org

— From 2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone. More than 80% of that funding is channeled through the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, who make up three-fourths of Gaza’s population. Some 280,000 children in Gaza attend schools run by UNRWA, which also provides health services and food aid.

Population: 5.5 million.

10x the amount of aid in 6 years than Singapore had in 20+ years with a similar population size.

Wonder what they did with all that money?
​

 

[King Kreole]

Only when the first sentence is an obvious failed strawman. Since the rest of the argument flows from it, it is invalid by default.​

Are you being stupid on purpose? Read the post again, this time slowly.

1. I didn't claim you were making that argument. You asked if I was familiar with the history of Singapore and I said I was, especially because Zionists often use it as a bullshyt comparison. There is no strawman here. I was providing context to my answer.

2. The rest of the argument in no way flows from that sentence. I literally started the second sentence with "But" to bring you back to the issue at hand. You made a claim that Singapore faced worse issues than Palestine with regards to formation of a successful state and I asked you to justify that claim while providing you with countervailing arguments, evidence and context. Will you now address this or continue your transparent attempts at deflecting?

 

[King Kreole]

Aid to Singapore... (can't get anything prior to 1981)....

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

1981 $21,720,000
1982 $20,410,000
1983 $14,350,000
1984 $40,160,000
1985 $23,250,000
1986 $29,300,000
1987 $23,270,000
1988 $21,890,000
1989 $94,830,000
1990 -$3,100,000
1991 $7,770,000
1992 $19,940,000
1993 $23,640,000
1994 $16,860,000
1995 $16,660,000
1996 $14,880,000
1997 $2,810,000
1998 $1,620,000
1999 -$1,110,000
2000 $1,090,000
2001 $850,000
2002 $7,190,000
2003 $7,070,000
2004 $9,140,000
Total $414,490,000

Population: 6.1 million.

Aid to Palestine......

A look at the billions of dollars in foreign aid to Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip in recent years to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living in the isolated, Hamas-ruled territory.

web.archive.org

— From 2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone. More than 80% of that funding is channeled through the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, who make up three-fourths of Gaza’s population. Some 280,000 children in Gaza attend schools run by UNRWA, which also provides health services and food aid.

Population: 5.5 million.

10x the amount of aid in 6 years than Singapore had in 20+ years with a similar population size.

Wonder what they did with all that money?
​

So just so we have it correct, the sole evidence you are putting forth to justify your claim that "Singapore faced even worse issues and succeeded" compared to the Occupied Palestinian Territories with regards to the formation and successful stability of their respective "states" (Palestine does not have a state, which is kind of a fatal flaw in the foundation of your argument) is the amount of aid dollars given to both? It's your belief that regardless of the ability to control their internal security status, the ability to control their borders, the amount of hostility they're facing from their most powerful neighbor, the presence of unwanted foreign military patrolling your state and enforcing unwanted restrictions on your populace, the very lack of recognition from the most powerful hegemon on the planet of their status or rights as a state, the basic ability to control the flow of resources in and out of their state, it is actually the amount of aid dollars received that is most - perhaps sole - indicative factor in determining the difficulties in forming a stable, functioning state?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Are you being stupid on purpose? Read the post again, this time slowly.

Dispense with the insults. Thanks.​

1. I didn't claim you were making that argument. You asked if I was familiar with the history of Singapore and I said I was, especially because Zionists often use it as a bullshyt comparison. There is no strawman here. I was providing context to my answer.

There was no need for context when it was a 'Yes/No' question.​

2. The rest of the argument in no way flows from that sentence. I literally started the second sentence with "But" to bring you back to the issue at hand. You made a claim that Singapore faced worse issues than Palestine with regards to formation of a successful state and I asked you to justify that claim while providing you with countervailing arguments, evidence and context. Will you now address this or continue your transparent attempts at deflecting?

Read the post above, chief.​

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Guess the PRC isn’t sending their best but he already admitted to being a Cac

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

So just so we have it correct, the sole evidence you are putting forth to justify your claim that "Singapore faced even worse issues and succeeded" compared to the Occupied Palestinian Territories with regards to the formation and successful stability of their respective "states" (Palestine does not have a state, which is kind of a fatal flaw in the foundation of your argument) is the amount of aid dollars given to both?

Nope. Just one piece of the argument.​

It's your belief that regardless of the ability to control their internal security status, the ability to control their borders, the amount of hostility they're facing from their most powerful neighbor, the presence of unwanted foreign military patrolling your state and enforcing unwanted restrictions on your populace, the very lack of recognition from the most powerful hegemon on the planet of their status or rights as a state, the basic ability to control the flow of resources in and out of their state, it is actually the amount of aid dollars received that is most - perhaps sole - indicative factor in determining the difficulties in forming a stable, functioning state?

No, my belief is that had the Arabs put actual effort into establishing a functional State by sharing the land instead of engaging in protracted hostilities of revenge due to Arabic tribalism wanting no Jews on any of it unless they were subservient, investing in their own economic growth using the billions in assistance they've received since UNRWA was established rather than killing Jews, and establishing diplomatic relations with surrounding Nations rather than attempting to re-fight a war they can never win, they'd be better-off than Singapore.

The majority of the issues Arabs in Gaza, Samaria, and Judea face were of their own doing. They chose terrorism rather than building a Nation. They chose to be dependent rather than Independent. They chose to play the victim when they got beat instead of making the best of what they had after failing to wipe out the Jews.​

 

[Pressure]

Only when the first sentence is an obvious failed strawman. Since the rest of the argument flows from it, it is invalid by default.​

That’s the Hl way

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Ravi Menon: An economic history of Singapore - 1965-2065

Keynote address by Mr Ravi Menon, Managing Director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore, at the Singapore Economic Review Conference 2015, Singapore, 5 August 2015.

www.bis.org

Let me begin by reviewing the economic progress we have made as a nation in the last 100 years, from three perspectives, namely the level, generation, and distribution of income.

First, the level of income. I will use Gross Domestic Product rather than Gross National Income since the GNI measure that we use today is not available for the earlier years.

• In 1965, Singapore's nominal GDP per capita was around US$500. We were at the same level as Mexico and South Africa.​
• In 1990, GDP per capita had risen to about US$13,000, surpassing South Korea, Israel, and Portugal.​
• In 2015, GDP per capita was about US$56,000. We had caught up with Germany and the United States.​

Choose terrorism, brehs.​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/palestinian-territory-occupied/gdp-per-capita

View Palestinian Territory's State of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) GDP per Capita: 2015p: Annual from 1994 to 2018 in the chart:​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Launch rockets instead of launching economic development, brehs.​

 

[King Kreole]

There was no need for context when it was a 'Yes/No' question.

I would argue the context was useful when you’re utilizing the exact same examples and framing that are most commonly used by the Zionists to denigrate the dignity and humanity of Palestinians. There are a lot of countries in the world, I find it hard to believe you landed on Singapore without exposure to that rhetoric. Either way, it’s besides the main point of your argument.

No, my belief is that had the Arabs put actual effort into establishing a functional State by sharing the land instead of engaging in protracted hostilities of revenge due to Arabic tribalism wanting no Jews on any of it unless they were subservient, investing in their own economic growth using the billions in assistance they've received since UNRWA was established rather than killing Jews, and establishing diplomatic relations with surrounding Nations rather than attempting to re-fight a war they can never win, they'd be better-off than Singapore.

The majority of the issues Arabs in Gaza, Samaria, and Judea face were of their own doing. They chose terrorism rather than building a Nation. They chose to be dependent rather than Independent. They chose to play the victim when they got beat instead of making the best of what they had after failing to wipe out the Jews.

And what I’m telling you is that this is completely boilerplate Zionist dogma that relies on deeply embedded racist and Orientalist notions of Arab inhumanity. I’m not even going to address your use of the term Judea and Samaria, I’ll just say that to believe what you’re saying you must be blind to the actions of Israel, the dominant actor in this crisis. The way you people so easily say things like Arabs chose terrorism rather than building a nation, choose to play victim, and then blame “venegful Arabic tribalism” for the consequences of Israel’s illegal and immoral theft and occupation of the Palestinian homeland is vulgar and shockingly ahistoric.

But I guess it’s just that Arab blood that makes them too evil, lazy and stupid to put the effort into establishing a state in the face of massive colonial dispossession and abuse by Israel and their hegemon backers. I guess it’s that gene-deep antisemitism in Arab blood that makes Israel have to blow up 35,000+ of them and continually build settlements on their land. We all know that when Singapore was able to build a thriving state in the midst of being completely leveled by multiple atomic bombs worth of munitions and occupied by hostile foreign powers for 80 years. These pesky Arabs could learn a lesson or two from this example. Whatever shall we do with them.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I would argue the context was useful when you’re utilizing the exact same examples and framing that are most commonly used by the Zionists to denigrate the dignity and humanity of Palestinians. There are a lot of countries in the world, I find it hard to believe you landed on Singapore without exposure to that rhetoric. Either way, it’s besides the main point of your argument.

Define 'Zionist', there's no dehumanizing on my end, and Singapore became Independent around the same time.​

And what I’m telling you is that this is completely boilerplate Zionist dogma that relies on deeply embedded racist and Orientalist notions of Arab inhumanity.

Actual economic data is neither 'racist', 'Orientalist', nor embedded in any way, shape, or form with 'Arab inhumanity'.​

I’m not even going to address your use of the term Judea and Samaria, I’ll just say that to believe what you’re saying you must be blind to the actions of Israel, the dominant actor in this crisis.

Their 'domination' is due to being an ally and working with other Nations, something the PLO could have done instead of trying to kill Jews.​

The way you people so easily say things like Arabs chose terrorism rather than building a nation, choose to play victim, and then blame “venegful Arabic tribalism” for the consequences of Israel’s illegal and immoral theft and occupation of the Palestinian homeland is vulgar and shockingly ahistoric.

"You people."



Arabs, themselves, stated those things and there wouldn't be an occupation if Arabs hadn't attacked Israel and lost multiple times. There was no 'theft'. Israel legally acquired land, the rest was won from failed wars instigated by surrounding Arabs. That whole 'moral' argument fails when you have 'proofs of purchase' and win several wars against aggressors trying to kill you.​

But I guess it’s just that Arab blood that makes them too evil, lazy and stupid to put the effort into establishing a state in the face of massive colonial dispossession and abuse by Israel and their hegemon backers.

That's YOUR opinion, not mine.​

I guess it’s that gene-deep antisemitism in Arab blood that makes Israel have to blow up 35,000+ of them and continually build settlements on their land.

If you lose wars, you lose land and the anti-semitism was imported from Germany in WW2. About 10,000 of the 35,000 killed were combatants, and total casualties is ten times lower than the Syrian War.​

We all know that when Singapore was able to build a thriving state in the midst of being completely leveled by multiple atomic bombs worth of munitions and occupied by hostile foreign powers for 80 years.

There wouldn't be bombings or occupations if there were no terrorists in the territories and the people of Gaza, Samaria, and Judea actually focused on building a functional State instead of trying to kill Jews.​

These pesky Arabs could learn a lesson or two from this example. Whatever shall we do with them.

That's on them. What they've been doing so far hasn't worked and the rest of the Arab World doesn't give a FUKK about them.​

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Fairly. Especially since one of the go-to Zionists canards is that dull line "Gaza could have been Singapore if not for Hamas!", the point of which is to trojan horse in the notion that Arabs are incapable of self-governance so perpetual Israeli domination is so sadly, unfortunately the best of bad options.

But can you point to the situation that Singapore found itself during-and-post-independence as it relates to self-governance that is analogous to being actively genocided by a vicious colonial oppressor with the complicity of the world's dominant superpower? LKY did a fantastic job taking Singapore from a state of economic immiseration and demographic tension to what it is today, but you cannot be serious with that comparison. Even at the height of the tensions with Malaysia and Indonesia, Singapore was never under the direct occupation of either. The ethnic Malay ruling class in Malaysia never enacted the kind of brutalities we see Israelis putting Palestinians through. Sukarno's fukkery in Singapore during Konfrontasi was never a structural impediment to the literal self-rule of Singapore the way Israel's literal control of Palestinian borders and resources is.

Are you being stupid on purpose? Read the post again, this time slowly.

1. I didn't claim you were making that argument. You asked if I was familiar with the history of Singapore and I said I was, especially because Zionists often use it as a bullshyt comparison. There is no strawman here. I was providing context to my answer.

2. The rest of the argument in no way flows from that sentence. I literally started the second sentence with "But" to bring you back to the issue at hand. You made a claim that Singapore faced worse issues than Palestine with regards to formation of a successful state and I asked you to justify that claim while providing you with countervailing arguments, evidence and context. Will you now address this or continue your transparent attempts at deflecting?

So just so we have it correct, the sole evidence you are putting forth to justify your claim that "Singapore faced even worse issues and succeeded" compared to the Occupied Palestinian Territories with regards to the formation and successful stability of their respective "states" (Palestine does not have a state, which is kind of a fatal flaw in the foundation of your argument) is the amount of aid dollars given to both? It's your belief that regardless of the ability to control their internal security status, the ability to control their borders, the amount of hostility they're facing from their most powerful neighbor, the presence of unwanted foreign military patrolling your state and enforcing unwanted restrictions on your populace, the very lack of recognition from the most powerful hegemon on the planet of their status or rights as a state, the basic ability to control the flow of resources in and out of their state, it is actually the amount of aid dollars received that is most - perhaps sole - indicative factor in determining the difficulties in forming a stable, functioning state?

I would argue the context was useful when you’re utilizing the exact same examples and framing that are most commonly used by the Zionists to denigrate the dignity and humanity of Palestinians. There are a lot of countries in the world, I find it hard to believe you landed on Singapore without exposure to that rhetoric. Either way, it’s besides the main point of your argument.


And what I’m telling you is that this is completely boilerplate Zionist dogma that relies on deeply embedded racist and Orientalist notions of Arab inhumanity. I’m not even going to address your use of the term Judea and Samaria, I’ll just say that to believe what you’re saying you must be blind to the actions of Israel, the dominant actor in this crisis. The way you people so easily say things like Arabs chose terrorism rather than building a nation, choose to play victim, and then blame “venegful Arabic tribalism” for the consequences of Israel’s illegal and immoral theft and occupation of the Palestinian homeland is vulgar and shockingly ahistoric.

But I guess it’s just that Arab blood that makes them too evil, lazy and stupid to put the effort into establishing a state in the face of massive colonial dispossession and abuse by Israel and their hegemon backers. I guess it’s that gene-deep antisemitism in Arab blood that makes Israel have to blow up 35,000+ of them and continually build settlements on their land. We all know that when Singapore was able to build a thriving state in the midst of being completely leveled by multiple atomic bombs worth of munitions and occupied by hostile foreign powers for 80 years. These pesky Arabs could learn a lesson or two from this example. Whatever shall we do with them.

You’ve got a lot of patience

 

[85 East]

Aid to Singapore... (can't get anything prior to 1981)....

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

1981 $21,720,000
1982 $20,410,000
1983 $14,350,000
1984 $40,160,000
1985 $23,250,000
1986 $29,300,000
1987 $23,270,000
1988 $21,890,000
1989 $94,830,000
1990 -$3,100,000
1991 $7,770,000
1992 $19,940,000
1993 $23,640,000
1994 $16,860,000
1995 $16,660,000
1996 $14,880,000
1997 $2,810,000
1998 $1,620,000
1999 -$1,110,000
2000 $1,090,000
2001 $850,000
2002 $7,190,000
2003 $7,070,000
2004 $9,140,000
Total $414,490,000

Population: 6.1 million.

Aid to Palestine......

A look at the billions of dollars in foreign aid to Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip in recent years to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living in the isolated, Hamas-ruled territory.

web.archive.org

— From 2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone. More than 80% of that funding is channeled through the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, who make up three-fourths of Gaza’s population. Some 280,000 children in Gaza attend schools run by UNRWA, which also provides health services and food aid.

Population: 5.5 million.

10x the amount of aid in 6 years than Singapore had in 20+ years with a similar population size.

Wonder what they did with all that money?
​

All money that goes to Palestine is siphoned through Isreal first. Every dollar. Isreal is responsible for the distribution of Palestinian aid money. Its really fukked up. So if they got 4.5 billion, did they really get 4.5 billion in aid money?