English teams are in bad shape, Chelsea has a thin squad with only 1 striker, Liverpool's defense is terrible, Pep only got attacking midfielders and if Fernandinho goes down he is down to Yaya. Many of the teams are not really moving forward and are simply rearranging players of roughly the same ability except City but their business was lopsided in favor of one part of the pitch. Bayern is a quarter/semi finals team right now but i wouldn't be surprised if 3 or 4 EPL teams don't make it past the 2nd round.
Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - We are SO back, the Premier League returns!
Majestic
Believe in myself and the Coles and Kendricks
Psg have just denied it.Draxler told he can leave PSG
Hustle backwards brehs.
He's been in great form and only joined in January...
African_brehda
Superstar
imo, Pep was their undoing. Should've kept the former coaches blueprint.
Didnt he trade Kroos for an aging Alonso?
I don't know if their problem is that deep, Chelsea walked the league with only one striker, they just need to solve the relationship problems between the board and the team right now, their defense is still solid with 11 men on the pitch and Conte does not rotate the squad that much. Mourinho and Conte's playstyle are made for cups, they are just tough to beat on 2 legs.
Liverpool are not on my list, they just can't keep a clean sheet. Spurs are playing at Wembley, they play the best football in the PL but that's a big factor.
City are great unless they lose Kompany which is likely to happen at some point, they are after N'Zonzi now, I think he has a €40M release clause, but Pep would find a way to replace Fernandinho, Yaya is still serviceable, he's still classes above Fernandinho when they dominate possession, he just doesn't have the same physicality and work rate to recover the ball. He can play 3 at the back with Danilo at DM, I don't know, but he always do some crazy stuff that seem to work and when they don't, no one reads the game better than him to make changes. He always plays a crazy high press style in the CL, the ball barely rolls trough the midfield when he wants his team to not let the opposition breathe.
The high pressing against Barcelona last season, masterclass coaching
Pep's Bayern played even better than Heynckes', he just struggled with injuries, he would have half his team in the medical department by the CL semis, that's not his fault. It was a concensus that they were better than Barcelona in 2015, they smashed Atletico at home in 2016 but got very unlucky in front of the goal and lost on away goals, the goal they conceded at home was offside. The only time they lost due to tactics was to Real Madrid but people saw it coming, Pep's teams have always struggled against counters, Bale, Ronaldo and Di Maria all in the same team was just a terrible matchup, their defense was amazing in those games too.
He wanted Kroos to stay, but with Bayern the coach has little to no saying in transfers. He wanted Neymar and they had the money but the board wanted Gotze at all costs because they thought he was the next german star so they paid him ridiculous wages, Kroos just wanted to get paid like Gotze and Bayern didn't want to do it because they have always had a wage structure, so they had no choice but to sell him.
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They can deny all they want but i think draxler wants to go esp since neymar came. I can see juve making a move here
I don't know if their problem is that deep, Chelsea walked the league with only one striker, they just need to solve the relationship problems between the board and the team right now, their defense is still solid with 11 men on the pitch and Conte does not rotate the squad that much. Mourinho and Conte's playstyle are made for cups, they are just tough to beat on 2 legs.
Liverpool are not on my list, they just can't keep a clean sheet. Spurs are playing at Wembley, they play the best football in the PL but that's a big factor.
City are great unless they lose Kompany which is likely to happen at some point, they are after N'Zonzi now, I think he has a €40M release clause, but Pep would find a way to replace Fernandinho, Yaya is still serviceable, he's still classes above Fernandinho when they dominate possession, he just doesn't have the same physicality and work rate to recover the ball. He can play 3 at the back with Danilo at DM, I don't know, but he always do some crazy stuff that seem to work and when they don't, no one reads the game better than him to make changes. He always plays a crazy high press style in the CL, the ball barely rolls trough the midfield when he wants his team to not let the opposition breathe.
The high pressing against Barcelona last season, masterclass coaching
Pep's Bayern played even better than Heynckes', he just struggled with injuries, he would have half his team in the medical department by the CL semis, that's not his fault. It was a concensus that they were better than Barcelona in 2015, they smashed Atletico at home in 2016 but got very unlucky in front of the goal and lost on away goals, the goal they conceded at home was offside. The only time they lost due to tactics was to Real Madrid but people saw it coming, Pep's teams have always struggled against counters, Bale, Ronaldo and Di Maria all in the same team was just a terrible matchup, their defense was amazing in those games too.
He wanted Kroos to stay, but with Bayern the coach has little to no saying in transfers. He wanted Neymar and they had the money but the board wanted Gotze at all costs because they thought he was the next german star so they paid him ridiculous wages, Kroos just wanted to get paid like Gotze and Bayern didn't want to do it because they have always had a wage structure, so they had no choice but to sell him.
I think it is now obvious that winning the EPL and competing against Europe's best are night and day these days. Pick a world XI and you would struggle to fit in one EPL player there, even listing the top 10 players there will be a similar issue. Chelsea was playing one game a week throughout the season, wait till they are on a Wed-Sunday or Tue-Saturday schedule and the fixtures pile up. This is where the squad is important and it is also where Bayern's weakness is, if Lewandowski gets injured they are down to Muller(not a 9) and other inferior players. Spurs embarrassed themselves last season and they were playing at Wembley too, their problem with the squad is also apparent. Yaya is not enough in a semi-final against Real or even PSG at this rate. High pressing is also high risk and it can be easily exposed once a team beats the first wave of pressure. City has the squad but they need the balance , Gundogan and Yaya at this stage is not enough but they have enough going forward to get through to the knockout. The defense has mildly improved , not convinced Stones won't repeat his horrendous mistakes. Heynckes was peak Bayern, they had a better set up and could play with or without possession. Schweinsteiger and Martinez dominated that Barca midfield and they had Mandzukic for his workrate and the Alaba/Ribery and Robben/Lahm wing. Technically it was the best they ever played IMO. Pep threw that out for possession when teams had moved on to fewer passes and faster transition. They lost to Barca in 2015 because the front 3 of Barca was playing out of their minds, Messi was playing like a hybrid 10, false 9 and winger all wrapped into one. Pep had to use an injured Lewandowski I recall partly because squad depth was missing. Watch how Messi completely manhandled City in 2015 and then having Neymar and Suarez in their best form.
Majestic
Believe in myself and the Coles and Kendricks
Barca really aint getting countinho 
liverpool rejected 125 million bid for him. Dortmund want 150 mill for dembele.
Barca are
status atm. Yo real Madrid gonna thrash barca 5 - 0 this season at the bernabau and win treble and sextuple this season.
liverpool rejected 125 million bid for him. Dortmund want 150 mill for dembele.Barca are
status atm. Yo real Madrid gonna thrash barca 5 - 0 this season at the bernabau and win treble and sextuple this season.
But PSG who still has the coach who choked a 4-0 lead is better? You're just assuming that they will be injured, but even so they are probably the only team that has depth comparable to real madrid. None of those teams that you mentioned are better than Bayern. Atletico can't keep up with Bayern and Juventus got exposed in the finals. In all honesty the real CL finals took place in the QF between Real and Bayern.
It's too soon to tell if any of the PL teams on are the level of Atletico or PSG, let alone Bayern.
I don't think we are disagreeing up until the Heynckes' Bayern part since I didn't say the english teams are contenders so there ain't much to comment. I think CL games on the calendar don't make as much difference as people claim, it's usually an excuse for those who often lose the league because they shyt the bed against shytty teams, a.k.a Arsenal, but I'll leave it at that so the post doesn't get too big.
It's hard to argue opinion but I argue to this day that Pep's Bayern, barring injuries, were a more dominant team. The way they dominated the league wasn't even fun to watch, yeah Heynckes reached two champions league finals but he didn't have the same injury problems, specially with Robben and Riberry, his two best players. Aside from the Real Madrid games where Pep got it totally wrong and he even admited it, the way they lost both semis were heartbreaking to watch, against Barcelona they didn't have Alaba, Robben and Ribery and managed to win at home after making the game competitive in the first leg up until the point when Messi decided to be Messi, he even got his tactics wrong going with 3 at the back, I remember Barcelona was killing them on counters and he had to switch to 4 with like 10 minutes into the game, he also had no wingers that game, which is the #1 focal point of his system. Against Atletico they kind of got robbed and honestly they just had bad luck, his tactics were on point and the game at the Allianz Arena was as one-sided as can be, that year they were not very good on the road in the CL, for some reason, but everyone knew they would massacre any team at home and they did.
When that Heynckes team played Barcelona, Messi had a hamstring injury in the first leg and he didn't even play in the second game. Sanchez , Puyol , Mascherano , Busquets and Alba didn't play either
Both were great though, but I just feel like Pep had terrible luck and a much better domestic record, Klopp dominated Heynckes in 2011/12, he went trophyless that season, if it wasn't for Robben bailing them out in the last minute in that CL final, I don't think it would be a discussion to this day.
The same coach who gave Barcelona the business in the first leg too. A 6-1 will never be mainly the coach's fault, the players choked it because they thought it was over after Cavani's goal, it's like the 7-1, Barcelona would never pull that off again even if they played 100 times, shyt happens, for a team as good as PSG, even if the coach fukks up the tactics, there's no explanation to conceding 6 to anybody, and the refs heavily helped Barcelona in that game.
Bayern have "depth" but they are not as good tactically as before and they are rarely fully fit, it doesn't matter how many players they have on the bench, you could argue Barcelona didn't have much depth in 2015 and they won the treble, Atletico haven't had that much depth ever since they became good again and they have been dominant.
Neuer, Thiago, Javi Martínez, James, Boateng & Bernat already injuried at the beginning of the season, Robben coming back from an injury today and is historically injury prone, same for Ribery, maybe you just don't watch them enough to think I'm assuming shyt.
Have you actually been watching Bayern? Anyone can see that they are much worse than with Pep, they have no identity anymore, no gameplan, their game is actually ugly to watch, specially if you compare it to how they have been player for the last, at least 5 years. Leverkusen gave them a run for their money in the second half today but they just couldn't finish, a better team would've probably won that game.
You wanna bet that either United, Chelsea or City are going further than Bayern this season?
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Pep did many things wrong especially in Europe. He played a suicidal high line against a Barca team that was far more direct than he had coached. In that same season Barca beat Atletico on the counter through direct football with Neymar destroying them. He got that one horribly wrong, I remember Benatia playing almost close to the center. They were not as good in 2015, in 2016 yeah they were good but going behind a defensive team like Atletico was never a good idea. I don't think injuries alone can explain why Barca lost to Heynckes. By that time period they were lost , many teams had figured out how to effectively play against them. in the 2012-14 period they were eliminated by Chelsea (missed chances there), Bayern, and Atletico. Heynckes had Martinez/Gustavo, Schweinsteiger/Kroos, Muller at the wings or as a second striker and Mandzukic/Gomez upfront. I think time showed that those were better options than what Pep left, an older Xabi Alonso, injury prone Thiago and Vidal.I don't think we are disagreeing up until the Heynckes' Bayern part since I didn't say the english teams are contenders so there ain't much to comment. I think CL games on the calendar don't make as much difference as people claim, it's usually an excuse for those who often lose the league because they shyt the bed against shytty teams, a.k.a Arsenal, but I'll leave it at that so the post doesn't get too big.
It's hard to argue opinion but I argue to this day that Pep's Bayern, barring injuries, were a more dominant team. The way they dominated the league wasn't even fun to watch, yeah Heynckes reached two champions league finals but he didn't have the same injury problems, specially with Robben and Riberry, his two best players. Aside from the Real Madrid games where Pep got it totally wrong and he even admited it, the way they lost both semis were heartbreaking to watch, against Barcelona they didn't have Alaba, Robben and Ribery and managed to win at home after making the game competitive in the first leg up until the point when Messi decided to be Messi, he even got his tactics wrong going with 3 at the back, I remember Barcelona was killing them on counters and he had to switch to 4 with like 10 minutes into the game, he also had no wingers that game, which is the #1 focal point of his system. Against Atletico they kind of got robbed and honestly they just had bad luck, his tactics were on point and the game at the Allianz Arena was as one-sided as can be, that year they were not very good on the road in the CL, for some reason, but everyone knew they would massacre any team at home and they did.
When that Heynckes team played Barcelona, Messi had a hamstring injury in the first leg and he didn't even play in the second game. Sanchez , Puyol , Mascherano , Busquets and Alba didn't play either
Both were great though, but I just feel like Pep had terrible luck and a much better domestic record, Klopp dominated Heynckes in 2011/12, he went trophyless that season, if it wasn't for Robben bailing them out in the last minute in that CL final, I don't think it would be a discussion to this day.
He was also responsible for that kerfuffle with the medical team that resigned and their injury problems never got better. Thiago and Lewandowski were really the 2 improvements he brought. Bayern has always been dominant, they do have periods were they slack off but they are just too far ahead of everyone in Germany. The 2013 final wasn't like Dortmund running them off the pitch, they contained them well and deserved to win. Even the 2012 season, they fell behind Jose's Madrid but look at how they controlled that game from 2-0 down with Kroos. The game wouldn't have gone to extra time if they had a better striker than Gomez then. I think Pep's main failings were squad building, his generally awful away form in CL ties which meant that they always had all to play for in the home leg if it came second. Heynckes team never left it to chance in 2013, Robben's Players Tribune article touches a lot more on their mental side after 2012 something which never appeared with Pep.
The same coach who gave Barcelona the business in the first leg too. A 6-1 will never be mainly the coach's fault, the players choked it because they thought it was over after Cavani's goal, it's like the 7-1, Barcelona would never pull that off again even if they played 100 times, shyt happens, for a team as good as PSG, even if the coach fukks up the tactics, there's no explanation to conceding 6 to anybody, and the refs heavily helped Barcelona in that game.
Bayern have "depth" but they are not as good tactically as before and they are rarely fully fit, it doesn't matter how many players they have on the bench, you could argue Barcelona didn't have much depth in 2015 and they won the treble, Atletico haven't had that much depth ever since they became good again and they have been dominant.
Neuer, Thiago, Javi Martínez, James, Boateng & Bernat already injuried at the beginning of the season, Robben coming back from an injury today and is historically injury prone, same for Ribery, maybe you just don't watch them enough to think I'm assuming shyt.
Have you actually been watching Bayern? Anyone can see that they are much worse than with Pep, they have no identity anymore, no gameplan, their game is actually ugly to watch, specially if you compare it to how they have been player for the last, at least 5 years. Leverkusen gave them a run for their money in the second half today but they just couldn't finish, a better team would've probably won that game.
You wanna bet that either United, Chelsea or City are going further than Bayern this season?
It was mainly the coaches fault. Was it the players who came up with the game-plan to sit back and defend rather than press and try and get an away goal? They only really decided to play aggressively after conceding 3 goals, and it was evident that they would have scored more than one if they decided to do so from the beginning. He had no answer for Barca loaded midfield which was ultimately his demise since the clogged up the lanes not allowing him to do what they did in the first leg. The players didn't do him any favors but it was ultimately the coaches decision to park the bus. And I'm suppose to believe hes gonna do something against Bayern midfield consisting of Vidal, Thiago and Rodriguez
.The majority of them were free of injury when it mattered in the champions league. One of the main criticisms of Ancoletti is the fact that he rarely rotates the squad, which is why so many of them get injured. That should no longer be a problem with the squad depth that they currently have.
I guarantee you that Bayern will place higher than any PL team.
African_brehda
Superstar
The City Sheikh hinted at a historic signing.
Messi just followed city on IG
Messi just followed city on IG
African_brehda
Superstar
United 
