No. Argentina has made it to the finals of the Copa America 3 out of the 4 years that Messi has competed in the tournament, but they've never won it.
Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - The Scriptures Prophesied the Messiah Plays 3-4-3
No. Argentina has made it to the finals of the Copa America 3 out of the 4 years that Messi has competed in the tournament, but they've never won it.
Maradona took 2 average Argentinian teams to back 2 back world cup finals, the 2nd time was even better considering his ankle was the size of a tennis ball for the whole tournament. He took a non successful Southern Italian team, with only 2 major trophies before his arrival and left them with their 1st ever league title (won 2, while he was there) and 1st ever european title (Uefa Cup / europa league). He basically doubled Napoli's honours in 7 seasons at the club (he won 4 major honours). All the while going up against giants such as Juve & Sacchi's Milan.
The best 2 players Maradona played with when he was Napoli were Alemao & Careca and he won a titles, before they even came to the club.
Maradona played in an era of shyt pitches and where tackling resembled playing American football and you actually had to do something nasty to get a booking.
One of the main reasons why Messi struggles internationally, he doesnt have Iniesta and Xavi controlling the tempo of the game and he has to do everything himself. Argentina blessed with attacking players but midfield isthe best midfielder of Messi's Argentina generation is Banega and his career has been up and down can, (had spark when he started, got his leg run over by his own doing, became a drunk, was injury prone, then managed to have a good 2 seasons, moved to Inter and went back to type).
can we plsss stop this narrative of Maradona Myth already
prime Maradona
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/11/memory-lane-napoli-198687.html
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/11/memory-lane-serie-1986-87.html
rated 6th on his own team for a season. And that's with teammates that peoplelove to say weren't very good.
but agreed Argetina prduces a million forwards but zero midfielders. they really look like the current Barca without creative mid
can we plsss stop this narrative of Maradona Myth already
prime Maradona
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/11/memory-lane-napoli-198687.html
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/11/memory-lane-serie-1986-87.html
rated 6th on his own team for a season. And that's with teammates that peoplelove to say weren't very good.
but agreed Argetina prduces a million forwards but zero midfielders. they really look like the current Barca without creative mid
so you actually think he was the 6th best player on his team but some people see him as greatest of all time ?!?! damn son have you ever seen him at least on youtube clips ???
Kunty McPhuck
Scust Szn has Returned
can we plsss stop this narrative of Maradona Myth already
prime Maradona
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/11/memory-lane-napoli-198687.html
http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/11/memory-lane-serie-1986-87.html
rated 6th on his own team for a season. And that's with teammates that peoplelove to say weren't very good.
but agreed Argetina prduces a million forwards but zero midfielders. they really look like the current Barca without creative mid
Italian/Spanish/Mainland European sports papers are notorious for their shytty ratings. Depends on which paper it is, where they based and which club theyre pro supporters of. Take papers in Spain like Marca and AS who are Pro Real and Sport and Mundo Deportivo are Pro Barca.
But as your whole argument is based on newspapers rating and it seems you've taken these ratings seriously, let me debunk.
Take a look at this
Football Ratings: Top rated players 2016/17
or click below
6,89 Hazard (Chelsea)
6,86 Mané (Liverpool)
6,70 Robben (Bayern)
6,68 Messi (Barcelona)
6,67 Lewandowski (Bayern)
6,61 Mertens (Napoli), Lallana (Liverpool)
6,60 Dybala (Juventus)
6,59 Ribéry (Bayern)
6,58 Kanté (Chelsea), Alexis Sánchez (Arsenal)
6,56 Silva (Man City), Henderson (Liverpool)
6,55 Thiago Alcântara (Bayern)
6,54 Cuadrado (Juventus), Lahm (Bayern)
6,52 Neuer (Bayern), Lloris (Tottenham)
6,51 Neymar (Barcelona)
6,49 De Bruyne (Man City), Alli (Tottenham)
6,47 Hummels (Bayern)
6,46 Ibrahimović (Man United)
6,45 M. Alonso (Chelsea), C. Eriksen (Tottenham)
6,44 Diego Costa (Chelsea), L. Insigne (Napoli), Cazorla (Arsenal), Džeko (Roma), Donnarumma (Milan)
6,42 Sterling (Man City), Totti (Roma)
6,41 Kovačić (Real Madrid), Chiellini (Juventus)
6,40 Willian (Chelsea)
6,39 Coutinho (Liverpool)
6,36 Higuaín, Mandžukić (Juventus), Fàbregas, Pedro (Chelsea), Agüero (Man City), Firmino (Liverpool)
6,35 Y. Touré (Man City)
6,34 David Luíz (Chelsea), K. Walker (Tottenham), Rugani (Juventus)
6,33 Kroos (Real Madrid), Gündogan (Man City), Nainggolan (Roma), Suso (Milan)
6,32 Modric (Real Madrid)
6,31 Cristiano Ronaldo, Asensio (Real Madrid), Hamsik (Napoli), Wanyama (Tottenham), Milner (Liverpool)
6,30 Suárez (Barcelona), Mignolet (Liverpool)
6,29 Javi Martínez (Bayern)
6,28 Courtois (Chelsea)
6,27 Oblak (Atlético)
6,26 Nolito (Man City), Alderweireld (Tottenham)
6,25 Griezmann (Atlético), Bailly (Man United), Buffon, Marchisio (Juventus)
6,24 Pjanic (Juventus), Wijnaldum (Liverpool)
6,23 Icardi (Inter), Son (Tottenham), Szczesny (Roma)
6,22 Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Perotti (Roma)
6,21 Matić (Chelsea), Iniesta (Barcelona), Kane (Tottenham), Lapadula (Milan)
6,20 Iheanacho (Man City), Alex Sandro (Juventus)
6,86 Mané (Liverpool)
6,70 Robben (Bayern)
6,68 Messi (Barcelona)
6,67 Lewandowski (Bayern)
6,61 Mertens (Napoli), Lallana (Liverpool)
6,60 Dybala (Juventus)
6,59 Ribéry (Bayern)
6,58 Kanté (Chelsea), Alexis Sánchez (Arsenal)
6,56 Silva (Man City), Henderson (Liverpool)
6,55 Thiago Alcântara (Bayern)
6,54 Cuadrado (Juventus), Lahm (Bayern)
6,52 Neuer (Bayern), Lloris (Tottenham)
6,51 Neymar (Barcelona)
6,49 De Bruyne (Man City), Alli (Tottenham)
6,47 Hummels (Bayern)
6,46 Ibrahimović (Man United)
6,45 M. Alonso (Chelsea), C. Eriksen (Tottenham)
6,44 Diego Costa (Chelsea), L. Insigne (Napoli), Cazorla (Arsenal), Džeko (Roma), Donnarumma (Milan)
6,42 Sterling (Man City), Totti (Roma)
6,41 Kovačić (Real Madrid), Chiellini (Juventus)
6,40 Willian (Chelsea)
6,39 Coutinho (Liverpool)
6,36 Higuaín, Mandžukić (Juventus), Fàbregas, Pedro (Chelsea), Agüero (Man City), Firmino (Liverpool)
6,35 Y. Touré (Man City)
6,34 David Luíz (Chelsea), K. Walker (Tottenham), Rugani (Juventus)
6,33 Kroos (Real Madrid), Gündogan (Man City), Nainggolan (Roma), Suso (Milan)
6,32 Modric (Real Madrid)
6,31 Cristiano Ronaldo, Asensio (Real Madrid), Hamsik (Napoli), Wanyama (Tottenham), Milner (Liverpool)
6,30 Suárez (Barcelona), Mignolet (Liverpool)
6,29 Javi Martínez (Bayern)
6,28 Courtois (Chelsea)
6,27 Oblak (Atlético)
6,26 Nolito (Man City), Alderweireld (Tottenham)
6,25 Griezmann (Atlético), Bailly (Man United), Buffon, Marchisio (Juventus)
6,24 Pjanic (Juventus), Wijnaldum (Liverpool)
6,23 Icardi (Inter), Son (Tottenham), Szczesny (Roma)
6,22 Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Perotti (Roma)
6,21 Matić (Chelsea), Iniesta (Barcelona), Kane (Tottenham), Lapadula (Milan)
6,20 Iheanacho (Man City), Alex Sandro (Juventus)
Using your logic, those ratings should clear up the best player in Europe, Non? My logic is, those ratings do not related to the performances I saw from the good old eye test. Now obviously people have good games, average games and shyt games, laws of averages.
Now Real won La LIga last season and their best rated player from that list is Kovacic. A player who started 19 games and came on for another 8 off the bench, so he made 27 league appearances and scored 1 goal. So does that make Kovacic better than C dot, Asensio, Isco, Kroos, Modric, Nevas, Ramos, Casemiro Varane ,etc. Bu-bu-but thats Real Madrid.
Don't like the Real answer
Lets take Rugani of Juventus, don't know who he is. In 2016/2017 he was Juventus 5th choice CB. Now from the ratings, it makes him the 2nd best Juventus CB, which if you saw Juventus last season, know that isnt true. He played 15 times last season, started 11 and came off the bench for another 4 games.
Bu-bu-bu-but, I wasn't talking about now.
Lets go to Serie A 00/01
Football Ratings: Average ratings Serie A 2000-01
or click below
6,73 Nedved (Lazio)
6,70 Signori (Bologna)
6,67 Rui Costa (Fiorentina)
6,62 R. Baggio (Brescia)
6,59 Chiesa (Fiorentina)
6,57 Tommasi (Roma)
6,55 Totti (Roma)
6,52 Nesta (Lazio), Montella (Roma)
6,50 Cafú (Roma)
6,49 Buffon (Parma)
6,45 Zidane & Tacchinardi (Juventus), Samuel (Roma)
6,43 S. Fiore (Udinese)
6,39 Toni (Vicenza)
6,38 Poborský (Lazio), Morfeo (Atalanta), Liverani (Perugia)
6,37 Thuram (Parma)
6,35 Maldini (Milan), Materazzi (Perugia), Giannichedda (Udinese)
6,33 Verón (Lazio), Carrera (Atalanta), Pecchia (Napoli)
6,32 Chimenti (Lecce), Di Vaio (Parma)
6,31 Peruzzi (Lazio), Davids (Juventus), Pelizzoli (Atalanta)
6,30 C. Doni (Atalanta), F. Cannavaro (Parma), G. Tedesco (Perugia), Zago (Roma).
6,70 Signori (Bologna)
6,67 Rui Costa (Fiorentina)
6,62 R. Baggio (Brescia)
6,59 Chiesa (Fiorentina)
6,57 Tommasi (Roma)
6,55 Totti (Roma)
6,52 Nesta (Lazio), Montella (Roma)
6,50 Cafú (Roma)
6,49 Buffon (Parma)
6,45 Zidane & Tacchinardi (Juventus), Samuel (Roma)
6,43 S. Fiore (Udinese)
6,39 Toni (Vicenza)
6,38 Poborský (Lazio), Morfeo (Atalanta), Liverani (Perugia)
6,37 Thuram (Parma)
6,35 Maldini (Milan), Materazzi (Perugia), Giannichedda (Udinese)
6,33 Verón (Lazio), Carrera (Atalanta), Pecchia (Napoli)
6,32 Chimenti (Lecce), Di Vaio (Parma)
6,31 Peruzzi (Lazio), Davids (Juventus), Pelizzoli (Atalanta)
6,30 C. Doni (Atalanta), F. Cannavaro (Parma), G. Tedesco (Perugia), Zago (Roma).
This season Roma won the league, And the highest rated player was Tommasi and then Totti.
Do you know who is missing from that list. Only 3 out of the 4 people to score 20 or more goals that season, you know goalscoring the things that helps you win matches. So the 1st, 2nd and 4th leading scorers in Serie A that season, werent good enough to make the list.
You want to know their names, sure thing, only Crespo, Shevchenko & some little known Argentine striker what was his name again, ermm Gab, ermm Bati ermm its on the tip of my tongue, help me out. Any how, going off your ratings narrative, what you saying is that Roma would of won the league without said Argentine's production, that his 20 goals in 28 games didn't matter in the grand scheme of things all because he didnt make some ratings. Even tho Roma hadnt won the league in 16 season before and havent won the league in the 16 seasons since.
Last edited:
Yeah, its called the NCAA and it sucks.
You are right it is hard to compare 1986 to 2014, but what we can see is that in 1986 Argentina scored 14 goals. 5 by Maradona, the rest of the team scored 9 goals split amongst 5 other players. 2014 Messi scored 4 goals and the remaining "Stacked" Argentina players combined for a whopping 3 goals. To put that into perspective. The juggernauts USA, South Korea, Algeria, Australia combined as teams to score as many goals as Argentina minus Messi.
Other top tier teams in the 2014 World Cup.
Colombia= 12 goals
Brazil= 11 goals
Netherlands= 12 goals
Germany= 18 goals
The numbers would say that Argentina had no business being in the final. A strong defense and Messi dragged that team into finals. Take Messi off that team and they don't make it out of group play.
You are right though. Without that World Cup title he'll always be overshadowed by Maradona. Fair or not it's the way it is.
Italian/Spanish/Mainland European sports papers are notorious for their shytty ratings. Depends on which paper it is, where they based and which club theyre pro supporters of. Take papers in Spain like Marca and AS who are Pro Real and Sport and Mundo Deportivo are Pro Barca.
But as your whole argument is based on newspapers rating and it seems you've taken these ratings seriously, let me debunk.
Take a look at this
Football Ratings: Top rated players 2016/17
or click below
6,89 Hazard (Chelsea)
6,86 Mané (Liverpool)
6,70 Robben (Bayern)
6,68 Messi (Barcelona)
6,67 Lewandowski (Bayern)
6,61 Mertens (Napoli), Lallana (Liverpool)
6,60 Dybala (Juventus)
6,59 Ribéry (Bayern)
6,58 Kanté (Chelsea), Alexis Sánchez (Arsenal)
6,56 Silva (Man City), Henderson (Liverpool)
6,55 Thiago Alcântara (Bayern)
6,54 Cuadrado (Juventus), Lahm (Bayern)
6,52 Neuer (Bayern), Lloris (Tottenham)
6,51 Neymar (Barcelona)
6,49 De Bruyne (Man City), Alli (Tottenham)
6,47 Hummels (Bayern)
6,46 Ibrahimović (Man United)
6,45 M. Alonso (Chelsea), C. Eriksen (Tottenham)
6,44 Diego Costa (Chelsea), L. Insigne (Napoli), Cazorla (Arsenal), Džeko (Roma), Donnarumma (Milan)
6,42 Sterling (Man City), Totti (Roma)
6,41 Kovačić (Real Madrid), Chiellini (Juventus)
6,40 Willian (Chelsea)
6,39 Coutinho (Liverpool)
6,36 Higuaín, Mandžukić (Juventus), Fàbregas, Pedro (Chelsea), Agüero (Man City), Firmino (Liverpool)
6,35 Y. Touré (Man City)
6,34 David Luíz (Chelsea), K. Walker (Tottenham), Rugani (Juventus)
6,33 Kroos (Real Madrid), Gündogan (Man City), Nainggolan (Roma), Suso (Milan)
6,32 Modric (Real Madrid)
6,31 Cristiano Ronaldo, Asensio (Real Madrid), Hamsik (Napoli), Wanyama (Tottenham), Milner (Liverpool)
6,30 Suárez (Barcelona), Mignolet (Liverpool)
6,29 Javi Martínez (Bayern)
6,28 Courtois (Chelsea)
6,27 Oblak (Atlético)
6,26 Nolito (Man City), Alderweireld (Tottenham)
6,25 Griezmann (Atlético), Bailly (Man United), Buffon, Marchisio (Juventus)
6,24 Pjanic (Juventus), Wijnaldum (Liverpool)
6,23 Icardi (Inter), Son (Tottenham), Szczesny (Roma)
6,22 Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Vertonghen (Tottenham), Perotti (Roma)
6,21 Matić (Chelsea), Iniesta (Barcelona), Kane (Tottenham), Lapadula (Milan)
6,20 Iheanacho (Man City), Alex Sandro (Juventus)
Using your logic, those ratings should clear up the best player in Europe, Non? My logic is, those ratings do not related to the performances I saw from the good old eye test. Now obviously people have good games, average games and shyt games, laws of averages.
Now Real won La LIga last season and their best rated player from that list is Kovacic. A player who started 19 games and came on for another 8 off the bench, so he made 27 league appearances and scored 1 goal. So does that make Kovacic better than C dot, Asensio, Isco, Kroos, Modric, Nevas, Ramos, Casemiro Varane ,etc. Bu-bu-but thats Real Madrid.
Don't like the Real answer
Lets take Rugani of Juventus, don't know who he is. In 2016/2017 he was Juventus 5th choice CB. Now from the ratings, it makes him the 2nd best Juventus CB, which if you saw Juventus last season, know that isnt true. He played 15 times last season, started 11 and came off the bench for another 4 games.
Bu-bu-bu-but, I wasn't talking about now.
Lets go to Serie A 00/01
Football Ratings: Average ratings Serie A 2000-01
or click below
6,73 Nedved (Lazio)
6,70 Signori (Bologna)
6,67 Rui Costa (Fiorentina)
6,62 R. Baggio (Brescia)
6,59 Chiesa (Fiorentina)
6,57 Tommasi (Roma)
6,55 Totti (Roma)
6,52 Nesta (Lazio), Montella (Roma)
6,50 Cafú (Roma)
6,49 Buffon (Parma)
6,45 Zidane & Tacchinardi (Juventus), Samuel (Roma)
6,43 S. Fiore (Udinese)
6,39 Toni (Vicenza)
6,38 Poborský (Lazio), Morfeo (Atalanta), Liverani (Perugia)
6,37 Thuram (Parma)
6,35 Maldini (Milan), Materazzi (Perugia), Giannichedda (Udinese)
6,33 Verón (Lazio), Carrera (Atalanta), Pecchia (Napoli)
6,32 Chimenti (Lecce), Di Vaio (Parma)
6,31 Peruzzi (Lazio), Davids (Juventus), Pelizzoli (Atalanta)
6,30 C. Doni (Atalanta), F. Cannavaro (Parma), G. Tedesco (Perugia), Zago (Roma).
This season Roma won the league, And the highest rated player was Tommasi and then Totti.
Do you know who is missing from that list. Only 3 out of the 4 people to score 20 or more goals that season, you know goalscoring the things that helps you win matches. So the 1st, 2nd and 4th leading scorers in Serie A that season, werent good enough to make the list.
ratings of overall players while i posted Maradona's team ratings of players. and by the way i agree that Kovačić, Isco, Modric or Kroos are the best player in Real Madrid's season not unless you think it's Cristiano because he is the one who scored goals. Because "you know goalscoring the things that helps you win matches" 
but did he carry mediocre players to win, that's the myth that people keeps on using. i just show that his teammates are not 'MEDIOCRE"
DBScalcio ratings he was tide 1st with Ferrara, other 4th then another one 6th. yeah he totally carried a mediocre team to win Scudetto. in his best season with Napoli i think 84-85 they're mid table team. nobody denying that he's the best player in his team maybe the world at that time but is he consistent tru out the season ?
here we are pretending we watch most of those Serie A games at that time, meanwhile those newspapers giving every player on the pitch ratings for every match they played i bet they don't use eyes. now did he carried mediocre players ?
Last edited:
Kunty McPhuck
Scust Szn has Returned
but did he carry mediocre players to win, that's the myth that people keeps on using. i just show that his teammates are not 'MEDIOCRE"
DBScalcio ratings he was tide 1st with Ferrara, other 4th then another one 6th. yeah he totally carried a mediocre team to win Scudetto. in his best season with Napoli i think 84-85 they're mid table team. nobody denying that he's the best player in his team maybe the world at that time but is he consistent tru out the season ?
here we are pretending we watch most of those Serie A games at that time, meanwhile those newspapers giving every player on the pitch ratings for every match they played i bet they don't use eyes. now did he carried mediocre players ?
Breh youre the only one who bought mediocre/not very good narrative into the conversation.
I clearly said
And
Where is the downplaying of his Napoli teammates?
Then you come with links trying to dis spell something that wasnt even mentioned and even when I pointed out that ratings in newspapers doesn't tell the whole story like
You try and change the narrative too, "Oh was he consistent enough throughout the season." which I was kind enough to answer, even before you bought it up.
Batistuta in Roma's the title winning season, he scored 20 goals in 28 games in a very defensive league like Serie A and he didnt make it on the ratings list, does that mean he wasnt consistent enough for you? After all his job is to put the ball into the back of the net, is it not?. His strikerate was better than a goal every other game, if you want me to break it down further. In the 28 games played, he scored in 14 of them.
Oh yeah Maradona's best Serie A season was 89/90 season when he was coked out of his head.
Last edited:
Minus the attack (trash link up) current Argentina is mediocre at best. Messi was dribbling and throwing passes again yesterday but his teammates were playing like damn amateurs. Just watch this clip and notice how many times he set up play vs Venezuela and his teammates either had a piss poor first touch or botched a chance
Wtf people want him to do more??
Wtf people want him to do more??
Double
I'm not in to tattoos, but Andre Gray's back is dope.
All that black excellence
same with Barcelona problem NO Midfielders
Asprilla: '' Coaching Argentina isn't the same as coaching Sevilla, even more so when you have Messi. When i played Venezuela we scored 18 goals in 2 games, now i have to see these morons not being able to win. Poor Messi playing with 10 idiots. ''
Last edited:
I'm not in to tattoos, but Andre Gray's back is dope.
All that black excellence
damn, what a detailed tattoo. but is he talking about civil rights but posted this? is he HOMOphobic ?
not impress
Black pride and hates gays? Dude might be a Coli posterdamn, what a detailed tattoo. but is he talking about civil rights but posted this? is he HOMOphobic ?
not impress
