reservoirdogs
Superstar
It was interesting to see someone doing the strict high guard style so effective as Winky did.
Most guys who do that fail on the highest levels cause they are too predictable. Like all those German fighters from the 00's.
Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
- Start date
Most guys who do that fail on the highest levels cause they are too predictable. Like all those German fighters from the 00's.
reservoirdogs
Superstar
Tanahashi Coates
Superstar
One Fight In, Is Canelo's Contract Already Problem For DAZN?
NEW YORK – When DAZN boss John Skipper announced two months ago that the company had signed Canelo Alvarez to a game-changing, five-year, 11-fight contract, virtually everyone focused on how much it’s worth.
Promoter Oscar De La Hoya and DAZN executives loved attaching that headline-making number, $365 million, to the deal. That gaudy figure obviously is dependent upon Alvarez continuing to win or at least remaining very competitive in his fights, thus it’s about as guaranteed as an NFL quarterback’s contract.
Then again, embellishment and often flat-out lying are inherent, accepted parts of promoting boxing. So, $365 million it is, devilish details be damned.
Within the boxing industry, the focus hasn’t really been about the “how much” since Alvarez’s astounding deal was announced. No, they’re more interested in the “who” – as in who has the final say in choosing Alvarez’s opponents?
Do De La Hoya and Alvarez have sole control over opponents? Or can Skipper step in and remind them that, for the kind of money DAZN is paying, those that run the fledgling streaming service have more say than the promoter and the fighter in picking people for him to fight?
Those choices of opponents ultimately will determine whether it was worthwhile for DAZN, funded by a brazen billionaire, to keep Alvarez away from competitors CBS/Showtime and ESPN once HBO bowed out of the boxing business.
Much like DAZN’s subscription numbers, we might never get an actual answer as it pertains to who’s calling Canelo’s shots.
We are, however, about to get quite a hint.
De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times for a story posted to its website Thursday that Alvarez will not fight Gennady Golovkin or Daniel Jacobs on May 4. He has reserved T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas for that night, but other than that, De La Hoya knows only that neither Golovkin nor Jacobs will square off against Alvarez in the Mexican superstar’s second fight of his gargantuan DAZN deal.
The prevailing feeling among boxing insiders is that De La Hoya wants Alvarez to fight David Lemieux next.
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When Alvarez edged Golovkin by majority decision September 15, two fights after Lemieux demolished Gary “Spike” O’Sullivan in the first round on the undercard, Lemieux lobbied to fight Alvarez on May 4. De La Hoya acknowledged Alvarez-Lemieux made perfect sense because his company promotes both boxers.
Lemieux, while one of boxing’s most dangerous punchers, also would afford Alvarez a safer foe than Golovkin would be in a third venture versus Alvarez. It’s a lower-profile fight, but an easier encounter that also would aged Golovkin one more year before Alvarez fights him yet again.
Alvarez’s DAZN deal lured the 28-year-old icon into another fight sooner than usual, though, exactly three months later. If Alvarez (50-1-2, 34 KOs) and Lemieux (40-4, 34 KOs) still are to meet May 4, those two heavily favored fighters must first defeat England’s Rocky Fielding (27-1, 15 KOs) and the Bahamas’ Tureano Johnson (20-2, 14 KOs) in their respective bouts Saturday night at Madison Square Garden (DAZN).
From Skipper’s perspective, allowing Alvarez to fight Fielding and Lemieux in the first two fights of his contract won’t initiate the subscription surge DAZN needs from its franchise fighter. Golovkin and Jacobs, to a lesser degree, would generate that type of interest among consumers unsold on paying another $9.99 per month to watch boxing.
De La Hoya hasn’t received that company memo, apparently.
When asked after a press conference Thursday whether Alvarez would fight Golovkin or Jacobs after facing Fielding, De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times, “No, not in May, not at all. We have no opponent whatsoever, but not Jacobs.”
Brooklyn’s Jacobs defeated stablemate Sergiy Derevyanchenko to win the then-vacant IBF middleweight title on October 28 in The Theater at Madison Square Garden. That makes Jacobs more valuable than when their fight was discussed in June, when he was just a contender, because Alvarez could capture another 160-pound championship by beating Jacobs.
Now that money is less of an obstacle than it was when Alvarez exclusively fought for HBO, Jacobs’ purse for facing Alvarez could approach eight figures. Jacobs (34-2, 29 KOs) was offered approximately a third of that amount when negotiations for the Alvarez-Golovkin rematch stalled in June.
Golovkin’s negotiating tactic worked and he received a 55-45 split in favor of Alvarez for their HBO Pay-Per-View rematch.
Another controversial conclusion has somewhat soured Golovkin on the idea of facing Alvarez again, but it is by far the most profitable fight available to the former champion from Kazakhstan.
“I want to see the Triple-G fight again,” De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times. “Everybody wants to see that fight again.”
But, “no,” De La Hoya continued, “That isn’t an option for Alvarez on May 4. We’re not sure what Triple-G is doing yet. We’re not waiting for him. We have our own plans. I definitely want to make that fight relatively soon, but not May.”
Alvarez-Golovkin III is worth even more to DAZN than Golovkin, because Alvarez must compete in pay-per-view-level fights if that ambitious business model is to become successful.
To that end, Skipper and promoter Eddie Hearn have tried their best to secure Golovkin’s services. He also has offers from Bob Arum’s Top Rank Inc., which is partnered with ESPN, and Al Haymon, whose Premier Boxing Champions is affiliated with FOX and Showtime.
Golovkin is in the process of deciding his next move. De La Hoya’s willingness, or lack thereof, to put Alvarez and Golovkin in the ring again could be a determining factor for the 36-year-old Golovkin (38-1-1, 34 KOs).
Same goes for Jacobs, who, like Golovkin, is a platform free agent. Jacobs’ promotional contract with Hearn’s Matchroom Boxing USA also has expired.
If Jacobs can’t get an Alvarez fight next, he, too, will have to seriously consider offers from Arum and Haymon. Because a fight against the other middleweight champion aligned with DAZN, unbeaten WBO title-holder Demetrius Andrade, is about as unappealing to Jacobs as it is to Golovkin.
Of course, Golovkin and Jacobs could circumvent Alvarez altogether and agree to fight each other again. They’d each make less money by boxing each other than they would for fighting Alvarez, but Arum and Haymon would be willing to pay plenty, certainly more than Golovkin and Jacobs made for their first fight in March 2017, to promote their rematch.
That’s why De La Hoya’s statements Thursday made us and surely Skipper take notice. If Alvarez doesn’t agree to fight Golovkin or at least Jacobs next, those decisions could drive Golovkin and/or Jacobs toward joining competing promoters and networks.
Taking two of Alvarez’s top opponents out of the DAZN equation would be bad for business, making it impossible perhaps to earn the desired return on the company’s gigantic investment.
The “how much” might matter more if that happens and Alvarez is left to fight Andrade – a taller, skilled southpaw who’ll be a tough out for anyone – or another bigger super middleweight, maybe a 168-pound champion more accomplished and talented than Fielding. For now, the “who” – as in who’s calling Canelo’s shots? – is the quintessential question.
We might not get an actual answer after Saturday night, when De La Hoya and Alvarez apparently intend to start pushing Lemieux as his next opponent. At the very least, we’re about to get quite a hint regarding whether, one fight in, Alvarez’s historic contract already will have become a problem for DAZN.
Promoter Oscar De La Hoya and DAZN executives loved attaching that headline-making number, $365 million, to the deal. That gaudy figure obviously is dependent upon Alvarez continuing to win or at least remaining very competitive in his fights, thus it’s about as guaranteed as an NFL quarterback’s contract.
Then again, embellishment and often flat-out lying are inherent, accepted parts of promoting boxing. So, $365 million it is, devilish details be damned.
Within the boxing industry, the focus hasn’t really been about the “how much” since Alvarez’s astounding deal was announced. No, they’re more interested in the “who” – as in who has the final say in choosing Alvarez’s opponents?
Do De La Hoya and Alvarez have sole control over opponents? Or can Skipper step in and remind them that, for the kind of money DAZN is paying, those that run the fledgling streaming service have more say than the promoter and the fighter in picking people for him to fight?
Those choices of opponents ultimately will determine whether it was worthwhile for DAZN, funded by a brazen billionaire, to keep Alvarez away from competitors CBS/Showtime and ESPN once HBO bowed out of the boxing business.
Much like DAZN’s subscription numbers, we might never get an actual answer as it pertains to who’s calling Canelo’s shots.
We are, however, about to get quite a hint.
De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times for a story posted to its website Thursday that Alvarez will not fight Gennady Golovkin or Daniel Jacobs on May 4. He has reserved T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas for that night, but other than that, De La Hoya knows only that neither Golovkin nor Jacobs will square off against Alvarez in the Mexican superstar’s second fight of his gargantuan DAZN deal.
The prevailing feeling among boxing insiders is that De La Hoya wants Alvarez to fight David Lemieux next.
When Alvarez edged Golovkin by majority decision September 15, two fights after Lemieux demolished Gary “Spike” O’Sullivan in the first round on the undercard, Lemieux lobbied to fight Alvarez on May 4. De La Hoya acknowledged Alvarez-Lemieux made perfect sense because his company promotes both boxers.
Lemieux, while one of boxing’s most dangerous punchers, also would afford Alvarez a safer foe than Golovkin would be in a third venture versus Alvarez. It’s a lower-profile fight, but an easier encounter that also would aged Golovkin one more year before Alvarez fights him yet again.
Alvarez’s DAZN deal lured the 28-year-old icon into another fight sooner than usual, though, exactly three months later. If Alvarez (50-1-2, 34 KOs) and Lemieux (40-4, 34 KOs) still are to meet May 4, those two heavily favored fighters must first defeat England’s Rocky Fielding (27-1, 15 KOs) and the Bahamas’ Tureano Johnson (20-2, 14 KOs) in their respective bouts Saturday night at Madison Square Garden (DAZN).
From Skipper’s perspective, allowing Alvarez to fight Fielding and Lemieux in the first two fights of his contract won’t initiate the subscription surge DAZN needs from its franchise fighter. Golovkin and Jacobs, to a lesser degree, would generate that type of interest among consumers unsold on paying another $9.99 per month to watch boxing.
De La Hoya hasn’t received that company memo, apparently.
When asked after a press conference Thursday whether Alvarez would fight Golovkin or Jacobs after facing Fielding, De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times, “No, not in May, not at all. We have no opponent whatsoever, but not Jacobs.”
Brooklyn’s Jacobs defeated stablemate Sergiy Derevyanchenko to win the then-vacant IBF middleweight title on October 28 in The Theater at Madison Square Garden. That makes Jacobs more valuable than when their fight was discussed in June, when he was just a contender, because Alvarez could capture another 160-pound championship by beating Jacobs.
Now that money is less of an obstacle than it was when Alvarez exclusively fought for HBO, Jacobs’ purse for facing Alvarez could approach eight figures. Jacobs (34-2, 29 KOs) was offered approximately a third of that amount when negotiations for the Alvarez-Golovkin rematch stalled in June.
Golovkin’s negotiating tactic worked and he received a 55-45 split in favor of Alvarez for their HBO Pay-Per-View rematch.
Another controversial conclusion has somewhat soured Golovkin on the idea of facing Alvarez again, but it is by far the most profitable fight available to the former champion from Kazakhstan.
“I want to see the Triple-G fight again,” De La Hoya told the Los Angeles Times. “Everybody wants to see that fight again.”
But, “no,” De La Hoya continued, “That isn’t an option for Alvarez on May 4. We’re not sure what Triple-G is doing yet. We’re not waiting for him. We have our own plans. I definitely want to make that fight relatively soon, but not May.”
Alvarez-Golovkin III is worth even more to DAZN than Golovkin, because Alvarez must compete in pay-per-view-level fights if that ambitious business model is to become successful.
To that end, Skipper and promoter Eddie Hearn have tried their best to secure Golovkin’s services. He also has offers from Bob Arum’s Top Rank Inc., which is partnered with ESPN, and Al Haymon, whose Premier Boxing Champions is affiliated with FOX and Showtime.
Golovkin is in the process of deciding his next move. De La Hoya’s willingness, or lack thereof, to put Alvarez and Golovkin in the ring again could be a determining factor for the 36-year-old Golovkin (38-1-1, 34 KOs).
Same goes for Jacobs, who, like Golovkin, is a platform free agent. Jacobs’ promotional contract with Hearn’s Matchroom Boxing USA also has expired.
If Jacobs can’t get an Alvarez fight next, he, too, will have to seriously consider offers from Arum and Haymon. Because a fight against the other middleweight champion aligned with DAZN, unbeaten WBO title-holder Demetrius Andrade, is about as unappealing to Jacobs as it is to Golovkin.
Of course, Golovkin and Jacobs could circumvent Alvarez altogether and agree to fight each other again. They’d each make less money by boxing each other than they would for fighting Alvarez, but Arum and Haymon would be willing to pay plenty, certainly more than Golovkin and Jacobs made for their first fight in March 2017, to promote their rematch.
That’s why De La Hoya’s statements Thursday made us and surely Skipper take notice. If Alvarez doesn’t agree to fight Golovkin or at least Jacobs next, those decisions could drive Golovkin and/or Jacobs toward joining competing promoters and networks.
Taking two of Alvarez’s top opponents out of the DAZN equation would be bad for business, making it impossible perhaps to earn the desired return on the company’s gigantic investment.
The “how much” might matter more if that happens and Alvarez is left to fight Andrade – a taller, skilled southpaw who’ll be a tough out for anyone – or another bigger super middleweight, maybe a 168-pound champion more accomplished and talented than Fielding. For now, the “who” – as in who’s calling Canelo’s shots? – is the quintessential question.
We might not get an actual answer after Saturday night, when De La Hoya and Alvarez apparently intend to start pushing Lemieux as his next opponent. At the very least, we’re about to get quite a hint regarding whether, one fight in, Alvarez’s historic contract already will have become a problem for DAZN.
2 Up 2 Down
Veteran
dariusz michalczewski had the best from that stock, easily.
Conscious Pilot
Do Better.
Akavov is the guy that BJS looked bad against in his first title defense
Conscious Pilot
Do Better.
reservoirdogs
Superstar
So Zurdo wants to move up and fight Gvozdyk.
He loses that fight imo and I also think he loses to all top 5 fighters (Gvozdyk, Alvarez, Bivol, Beterbiev, Jack) and against Barrera, Browne, Kovalev I'm not sure yet.
If TR would like to gauge his standing there instead of throwing him into deep water they should match him up with Barrera. That can tell something about how big of a player can he be in 175 with a relative little risk of getting destroyed even if Barrera would beat him (which is a possibility too imo). I could have said Kovalev too but who knows what state Kovalev gonna be in after the Alvarez rematch and even if he loses to Alvarez Kovalev is still a dangerous opponent on your first fight in a new division, he can still possibly destroy you.
He loses that fight imo and I also think he loses to all top 5 fighters (Gvozdyk, Alvarez, Bivol, Beterbiev, Jack) and against Barrera, Browne, Kovalev I'm not sure yet.
If TR would like to gauge his standing there instead of throwing him into deep water they should match him up with Barrera. That can tell something about how big of a player can he be in 175 with a relative little risk of getting destroyed even if Barrera would beat him (which is a possibility too imo). I could have said Kovalev too but who knows what state Kovalev gonna be in after the Alvarez rematch and even if he loses to Alvarez Kovalev is still a dangerous opponent on your first fight in a new division, he can still possibly destroy you.
reservoirdogs
Superstar
Also with him moving up we about to have the weakest title holder in all boxing?
current WBO 168 rankings
1. *Jesse Hart
2. Shefat Isufi
3. Vincent Feigenbutz
4. Arthur Abraham
5. Erik Bazinyan
6. Rohan Murdock
7. Zach Parker
8. Chris Eubank Jr.
9. Zac Dunn
10. Lerrone Richards
11. Rolando Mansilla
12. Avni Yildirim
13. Aslambek Idigov
14. WuZhati Nuerlang
15. Patrick Rokohl
I guess Hart is not #1 anymore and there are some prospects int here too but those 3 names after Hart...
Abraham in 2019 
current WBO 168 rankings
1. *Jesse Hart
2. Shefat Isufi
3. Vincent Feigenbutz
4. Arthur Abraham
5. Erik Bazinyan
6. Rohan Murdock
7. Zach Parker
8. Chris Eubank Jr.
9. Zac Dunn
10. Lerrone Richards
11. Rolando Mansilla
12. Avni Yildirim
13. Aslambek Idigov
14. WuZhati Nuerlang
15. Patrick Rokohl
I guess Hart is not #1 anymore and there are some prospects int here too but those 3 names after Hart...
Abraham in 2019 
Figaro
Superstar
Khans just come out and said Brook is a fakkit and the reason he got stabbed abroad because he tried to get some bum action
Khans gone up in my books, taking this heel turn to full effect
Khans gone up in my books, taking this heel turn to full effect
this guy...
reservoirdogs
Superstar
Eddie Hearn Explains Why Boxing is Reliant on PPV, DAZN the Single Exception -
Eddie Hearn Explains Why Boxing is Reliant on PPV, DAZN the Single Exception
WBC/WBA/Lineal & Ring Magazine Middleweight World Champion Saul “Canelo” Alvarez will take on WBA Super Middleweight World Champion Rocky Fielding tomorrow night, live from Madison Square Garden. Alvarez is arguably the sport’s biggest star, but he’s the challenger in this fight as he pursues a world title in a 3rd division (Super Welterweight, Middleweight). Eddie Hearn (Matchroom Boxing) is Champion Rocky Fielding’s promoter. Howie Long-Short had the chance to sit down with Eddie (his father Barry was a legendary promoter) to get his pulse on the American boxing landscape, to find out why purses are rising and to understand why more fights are heading to PPV than ever before.
Howie Long-Short: Boxing has a larger profile in the U.K. (see: Anthony Joshua regularly selling out 80K seats) than it does in the U.S. Why is that?
Eddie: The major issue in U.S. boxing is the price point for pay-per-view (PPV) events. We have PPV shows in the U.K. for $25, it’s not that expensive; $75, $100 is a lot money. Fury/Wilder was a good fight and a good event (several other champions fought on card), but only 300K people watched it on TV; had it been priced at $25 or $30, it might have done 1 million buys.
Another problem with American boxing is the fighter’s profiles aren’t being built up as their careers progress, so when they get to the top, they’re not the stars that they should be. You can’t keep people off TV (see: PPV) and then first start to promote them when they win a title. Fans want to follow that journey.
Even at just 300K buys it made sense for Fury/Wilder to go PPV (break-even was 250K buys), but we’re seeing fights (see: Pacquiao/Broner) that no one is calling for, headed to PPV. Why are we seeing more fights hitting PPV than ever before?
Eddie: There’s now so much money in the sport that other promoters have no choice but to go PPV. There isn’t enough money in TV rights to pay the extortionate purses that are being generated. If fights cost $1 million, you don’t have to go PPV, but they’re not; they’re significantly more. With DAZN coming into the industry and overpaying fighters, Fox and Showtime have had to do the same. The problem is that they don’t have the rights fees to pay the fighters the way that DAZN paid Canelo. The only way they can sign marquee fighters is to offer them a PPV.
DAZN is different in that it has the funding. They’re putting up your (the fans) PPV money. If you look at Canelo/GGG (for example), it did 1 million buys; that’s roughly $45 million into the promoter (split between the sides). DAZN is paying that on the fans behalf.
As you noted, U.S. boxing fans now have a PPV nearly every month. It’s certainly not reasonable to expect fans to spend $1,000/year on PPV fights. Do you expect the price point to come down?
Eddie: Yes, I really do because a good fight like Errol Spence Jr./Mikey Garcia is going to do just 200K buys; that is not good for their profiles and it’s not good for the sport. The purses have just gotten so far out of control. They’ll plateau slightly (and the price of the PPV will drop) when everyone realizes that we can’t maintain this, it (purses out of control, followed by plateau) happened with the PBC launch a couple of years ago.
The price point of PPV events also encourages illegal streaming (see: 10 million illegal streams of Fury/Wilder). When the fight is $20, fans are willing to spend the money; when it’s $80, they’re willing to watch a stream where the quality may not be very good. That $60 difference might be enough to fill your car up for the week, it might help pay for your groceries.
Canelo signed the largest contract in sports history with DAZN. Your biggest star Anthony Joshua has a similar exclusive agreement to fight on DAZN (he’s an equity shareholder, no contract terms have been released). Taking money out of the equation, explain why boxing’s 2 biggest stars are wise to align with the OTT network?
Eddie: If this fight (Canelo/Fielding) was on HBO PPV, it would do 350K-400K buys at $80/per. On DAZN, where you can watch the fight for free, it should (assumes greater awareness) do over a million viewers.
Fan Marino: As the promoter for Anthony Joshua, Eddie was closely watching the Fury/Wilder fight that ended in a controversial draw. I was eager to ask, what did your final card look like?
Eddie: I had Fury winning quite comfortably. The 2 knockdowns made the scoring reasonably competitive. I only gave him like one or two rounds outside of those (2 knockdown) rounds. He got schooled.
When Joshua fights the winner of Fury/Wilder 2, will DAZN carry the fight exclusively?
Eddie: That’s what we want. It’s not necessarily a requirement for us to take the fight. We’ll go to the broadcaster that puts up the most money, hopefully that will be DAZN. We’re not interested in pipe dreams though, as in this fight could do a million buys. Give me a million dollars’ worth of revenue and we have a deal.
Editor Note: Eddie may not have committed to a Joshua v Fury/Wilder airing on DAZN, but he certainly implied (or let one slip) that would be the case when explaining the OTT service’s value proposition to Howie. Eddie said“You’re going to get Anthony Joshua. You’re going to get all our (Matchroom) shows. You’re going to get all of the Golden Boy shows, you’re going to get Canelo/Fielding, Canelo/Danny Jacobs, Wilder/Joshua, all these big fights for $120/year ($9.99/mo.)”
HBO is exiting the boxing business making GGG a free-agent. Will he be signing with Matchroom Boxing?
Eddie: He’s talking to everybody, but the big money fights are the Canelo fights (and with Canelo exclusive to DAZN and Matchroom Boxing tied to DAZN, no promoter could put the fight together more easily).
Before yall tune into the fight later on DAZN, make sure you listen to our breakdown of #CaneloFielding, as well as our recap of #LomachenkoPedraza, & who really wins between Loma vs Tank 
Bigblackted4
Superstar
YuckAlso with him moving up we about to have the weakest title holder in all boxing?
current WBO 168 rankings
1. *Jesse Hart
2. Shefat Isufi
3. Vincent Feigenbutz
4. Arthur Abraham
5. Erik Bazinyan
6. Rohan Murdock
7. Zach Parker
8. Chris Eubank Jr.
9. Zac Dunn
10. Lerrone Richards
11. Rolando Mansilla
12. Avni Yildirim
13. Aslambek Idigov
14. WuZhati Nuerlang
15. Patrick Rokohl
I guess Hart is not #1 anymore and there are some prospects int here too but those 3 names after Hart...