The Long-Shot Candidate Who Has the White House Worried - Joe Biden has a Cornel West problem.

[Pressure]

I peeped game when they did this move when they said "among black people the top 10% of black people" have 90% of the wealth or some bullshyt...

but they ignore that the top 10% of black people...are not even in the top 10% of white people

They're comparing two different cohorts as if they're supposed to be equal then saying therefore we need universalist policies

Look, I get legally why you need universalist policies but it's a lie to say that black high earners are the same as white high earners. It's overt bullshyt.

Data shows that black people's wealth is in a precarious state. It isn't generational the same way as white due to systemic racism.

But he doesn't care about that because as long as they have a soft landing it's okay in his ideal world.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nap used to think that looking for allies on the right was great when it was a thing that centrists did.

You're playing another game of thinly veiled bullshyt.

Biden never reached out to republicans. Biden turned out the base.

The base rejected Bernie because Bernie was trying to reach out to disaffected contrarian false equivalency type voters.

Nap was all about working across the aisle and looking for allies on the right until opposing it became the new DNC talking point of the month.

This whole comment is the best - Napoleon was on some full on "But economic anxiety is the problem! Whites are only mad because they don't have money right now! We need to reach across the aisle and empathize with them!"

I never said this. I've never endorsed the idea of economic anxiety. I always said white voters were their own problem since 2015.

Napoleon was a full-on economic anxiety co-signer! The exact same shyt he falsely accused me of saying, he had already said himself with his whole chest.

I dont even know how to respond to this lie. I never endorsed the economic anxiety concept and rejected it for being offensive from the outset. The search function wont save you.

White voters are their own problem.

I was explaining what Obama was saying, not my own personal view. And this is May 2016 ...Trump wasn't inevitable then.

wait how did you not the post above that?

you're shameless

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Data shows that black people's wealth is in a precarious state. It isn't generational the same way as white due to systemic racism.

But he doesn't care about that because as long as they have a soft landing it's okay in his ideal world.

Black "wealthy" people are more likely to look out for each other in lower/poorer classes than any other demographic because the connection is more visceral and pervasive than any other demographic.

It's the whole "look at Lebron!" argument. They're so full of shyt.

Plus with the removal of affirmative action and attempts to diversify the workplace, this entire segment of black income is about to be washed out in a few years anyways as the pipeline to elite corridors is removed.

They love asking "we dont need a black elite!"...

...uh...yes the fukk we do need a black elite

@Rhakim, you telling me you dont want a black superclass leading and protecting black people's interests?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is like when thy were posting that Bertrand Cooper guy talking about why there no black lower class labor in the entertainment industry making film and TV content and I'm like...what type of white coerced bullshyt is this?

We already have few black content makers out there and now you're shaming them for going to college as if they're "elites" ... do you want fukking blue collar workers writing scripts now? OK fine where's the scripts? Does it make good content?

Dudes have none of this smoke with SNL hires Ivy League writers and staff but when it comes to black people we all gotta be salt of the earth types to play the same game that not even white people are playing

"b-b-b-b-but what about class "

Nothing

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yall don't care about class

So

We don't care about class

Its even

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is the shyt I'm talking about

Even if you wanted to make this concession, you need to be explicit about what you want to pull off

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There were at least a dozen lies in that mess above me (including repeatedly invoking my name for arguments I have never made), but let me just focus on the part where Napoleon blatantly lied on Martin Luther King Jr.

Martin was speaking generically to sell his message. Did you think non-violence was only limited his physical stature? He had to sell that shyt to bring people in.

I dont know why you have to be this gullible.

Now that you've spit on MLK's legacy, you feel like turning around and pissing on his grave too?

Suggesting that MLK only talked about class to "sell his message" is such utter bullshyt, and suggests you don't know jack shyt about the man or what he believed in. Imagine thinking he doubled down on socialist views about class in order to "sell" things to a wider audience in the fukking 1960s.


Just to show how bullshyt your claim is, here are the audiences he was speaking to when he said those quotes, in order:


#1: The SCLC board, 1967

#2: A speech to his own staff, 1966

#3: An address to the National Conference on New Politics, 1967

#4: Quote to a NYT reporter, 1968

#5: Rally in Selma, 1964

#6: Interview in Playboy, 1965

#7: Private letter to Corretta Scott King, 1952


And the last that I had quoted earlier came from a private conversation with Harry Belafonte, 1968:

“I’ve come upon something that disturbs me deeply. We have fought hard and long for integration, as I believe we should have, and I know we will win, but I have come to believe that we are integrating into a burning house. I’m afraid that America has lost the moral vision she may have had, and I’m afraid that even as we integrate, we are walking into a place that does not understand that this nation needs to be deeply concerned with the plight of the poor and disenfranchised. Until we commit ourselves to ensuring that the underclass is given justice and opportunity, we will continue to perpetuate the anger and violence that tears the soul of this nation. I fear I am integrating my people into a burning house.” - Martin Luther King Jr.



Half the quotes I gave you were from private, internal audiences. King wasn't just "selling that shyt to bring people in", he believed it with his whole soul. STFU and keep his name out of your mouth if you don't know anything about him and are just gonna lie on him like that.

Also hilarious that you think King talked like Bernie in order to "sell his message", then will turn around and talk about how Bernie's message is so unsellable and no one likes is (despite the polls saying the opposite). I guess if Bernie really wanted to sell his message, he'd focus more on how amazingly kind segregationists were and how much he wished he could go back to working with people like them again.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

There were at least a dozen lies in that mess above me (including repeatedly invoking my name for arguments I have never made), but let me just focus on the part where Napoleon blatantly lied on Martin Luther King Jr.






Now that you've spit on MLK's legacy, you feel like turning around and pissing on his grave too?

Suggesting that MLK only talked about class to "sell his message" is such utter bullshyt, and suggests you don't know jack shyt about the man or what he believed in. Imagine thinking he doubled down on socialist views about class in order to "sell" things to a wider audience in the fukking 1960s.


Just to show how bullshyt your claim is, here are the audiences he was speaking to when he said those quotes, in order:


#1: The SCLC board, 1967

#2: A speech to his own staff, 1966

#3: An address to the National Conference on New Politics, 1967

#4: Quote to a NYT reporter, 1968

#5: Rally in Selma, 1964

#6: Interview in Playboy, 1965

#7: Private letter to Corretta Scott King, 1952


And the last that I had quoted earlier came from a private conversation with Harry Belafonte, 1968:

“I’ve come upon something that disturbs me deeply. We have fought hard and long for integration, as I believe we should have, and I know we will win, but I have come to believe that we are integrating into a burning house. I’m afraid that America has lost the moral vision she may have had, and I’m afraid that even as we integrate, we are walking into a place that does not understand that this nation needs to be deeply concerned with the plight of the poor and disenfranchised. Until we commit ourselves to ensuring that the underclass is given justice and opportunity, we will continue to perpetuate the anger and violence that tears the soul of this nation. I fear I am integrating my people into a burning house.” - Martin Luther King Jr.



Half the quotes I gave you were from private, internal audiences. King wasn't just "selling that shyt to bring people in", he believed it with his whole soul. STFU and keep his name out of your mouth if you don't know anything about him and are just gonna lie on him like that.

Also hilarious that you think King talked like Bernie in order to "sell his message", then will turn around and talk about how Bernie's message is so unsellable and no one likes is (despite the polls saying the opposite).

Equating Bernie to King is where this bullshyt has got to stop.

King knew how to market himself and the movement. Thats why he was in the White House and Malcolm X wasn't.

I guess if Bernie really wanted to sell his message, he'd focus more on how amazingly kind segregationists were and how much he wished he could go back to working with people like them again.

Bernie voted for the crime bill. fukk outta here with these false equivalencies.

Hey, if you want the old Joe Biden, just say so

 

[FAH1223]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Equating Bernie to King is where this bullshyt has got to stop.

King knew how to market himself and the movement. Thats why he was in the White House and Malcolm X wasn't.

So now being a supposed "Class Reductionist" isn't actually a moral issue, it's just whether you can market it effectively.

And how dumb do you think we are to claim that aligning with socialism is what would get you into the White House in the 1960s.


I haven't equated King with Bernie. I've just taking the exact positions you claim are horrible and bad, showing you MLK Jr. making MUCH stronger statements about the same position, and asking if you can still defend your opposition to it. You can't. You've proven, yet again, that you have zero moral center, all that matters to you is who said it.

Just like how I was able to quote Joe Biden saying far worse things which are zero concern to you. Just like I was able to quote you cosigning positions that you later attack when the other guy does it.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

#neverforget

That message, incidentally, was sent to me when I'd had him on ignore for 4 years. So he had no beef with me because he wasn't emotionally distracted by arguments with me. Even though we had already been through the Bernie 2016 and AOC 2018 elections by that point, even though I was an out-and-forceful socialist, even though my biggest post on the history series he enjoyed was a nuanced love letter to a Black socialist....he doesn't actually have a problem with my arguments so much as the fact that I'm arguing with him.

Spoiler

Either that or the account has a love/hate relationship with me depending on whose shift it is at the call center.

So?

I’m not a dead ender like you. I’ll drop you like a hot rock if I need to.

This response is perfect. You admit that your evaluation of my arguments is entirely based on how you come out. Anyone who has followed this conversation can tell that you've dropped any pretense of having a consistently ideology, or any honest dialogue about them. You are solely concerned with whether you're "winning".

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

So now being a supposed "Class Reductionist" isn't actually a moral issue, it's just whether you can market it effectively.

And how dumb do you think we are to claim that aligning with socialism is what would get you into the White House in the 1960s.

You just proved my point. MLK was talking about a generic universalism appeal to morality

In fact, the socialist nature of King was complicated by the fact that the black power and civil rights movements splintered after this death with some going the Nixon black capitalist route and others trying to form more porto-democratic socialist paths.

King didn't get to see the series of black mayors in the 70s trying to tackle real issues and power structures. It was all theory.

I haven't equated King with Bernie. I've just taking the exact positions you claim are horrible and bad, showing you MLK Jr. making MUCH stronger statements about the same position, and asking if you can still defend your opposition to it. You can't. You've proven, yet again, that you have zero moral center, all that matters to you is who said it.

Just like how I was able to quote Joe Biden saying far worse things which are zero concern to you. Just like I was able to quote you cosigning things that just years later you attack when the other guy does it.

If you want the old Joe Biden, let me know.

Plus its not like I'll hold Bernie's rape essay against him 40 years later.

Do you want me to do that?

ok.

here.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/28/politics/bernie-sanders-rape-essay-1972/index.html

"She fantasizes being raped by 3 men": Bernie Sanders’s bizarre 1972 essay on gender

"And they never again made love together or ever saw each other one more time."

www.vox.com

Bernie Sanders Recants 1972 Article on Women's Fantasies of Rape

An article that Mr. Sanders wrote more than 40 years ago has resurfaced and he said it demonstrated how political campaigns can be like soap operas at times.

archive.nytimes.com

Bernie Sanders' Sexually Explicit Essay Resurfaces

abcnews.go.com

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This response is perfect. You admit that your evaluation of my arguments is entirely based on how you come out. Anyone who has followed this conversation can tell that you've dropped any pretense of having a consistently ideology, or any honest dialogue about them. You are solely concerned with whether you're "winning".

You think explicit references are the only things that count and not circumstantial multiple examples of behavior.

You defended what basically everyone who is critical of Bernie Sanders would highlight as his blindspots of race and class reductionism.

Why are you so focused on Biden's underwhelming statements on race but ignoring who black people voted for?

Are you saying black voters are stupid?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You think explicit references are the only things that count and not circumstantial multiple examples of behavior.

But literally your only "example of behavior" was defending Bernie.

And since I was defending him in comparison to Biden, suggesting that shows I don't care about race issues is fukking ridiculous.

Why are you so focused on Biden's underwhelming statements on race

First off, because you were focused on attacking posters and candidates and calling them names due to some sort of moral inferiority you see in their positions. If you solely thought their positions were poor strategy, then you would make that argument, you wouldn't scream "Class Reductionist!" over and over even when they never made a class reductionist argument. It's idiocy to try to claim that Bernie was worse than Biden on race issues, that's not a claim any informed person would ever make. And its even stupider to claim that other posters here are devaluing race issues if they support Bernie.

If your issue is mere strategy, then talk about strategy. Stop the name-calling and false accusations.

but ignoring who black people voted for?

Are you saying black voters are stupid?

Are you saying every Black voter who preferred Bernie ideologically (whether or not that voted for him) is stupid? Are you saying that young Black voters in general are stupid?

I mean, you're the one who has repeatedly said that we can't trust the voters and their choices are meaningless.

The voters are too stupid. America is screwed.

For elites, politics is driven by ideology. For voters, it’s not.

Knowledge doesn't translate when voters are stupid

Voters are stupid.

And?

At some point you have to blame the voters.

The voters are stupid.

What do you want me to change? How I lie?

If I appeal to them, I lie to them. Simple.

Voters are just stupid. Admit it.

i've been screaming that this is a huge problem.

Trump is peeling off black voters at an alarming rate.

yeah, I'm definitely a fukking agent.

I've been telling you all for months that Trump was making significant gains with black voters, but yeah, I'm fukking trolling.

Right. People refuse to admit that what is right is often unpopular and stupid people get to vote too. Look at 2016. Hillary could have done everything right and still lost because no one wants to admit that voters can be fukking stupid. No one ever wants to blame voters.

I keep saying this all the time.

Theres no guarantee that the "best" candidate wins.

Often times, bad people win and are popular and theres very little you can do about it because people are stupid.

This whole "listen to voters" line is nonsense and a cowardly way out for people who dont want to actually admit that they support what awful candidates want but don't have the courage to say so

You don't trust voters at all and you don't think voters vote ideologically, so why suddenly turn around and claim the majority choice is some sort of deep ideological co-sign of a candidate's piosition?

I don't think Black voters picked Biden because they thought he was better on race issues. Polling showed that those who voted for Biden (not all Black voters by any means, but enough to give him the majority) overwhelmingly answered that they picked Biden because they thought he had a better chance of beating Trump and/or because key people had endorsed him. And those two points are exactly what the Dem establishment and media pounded into the entire country once Bernie started winning the primaries.

You said so yourself:

Even Krystal Ball had to stop lying and admit that Black voters dont like taking risks when we see what republicans are doing out here.

There was a whole thread about why older Black voters support establishment candidates, NONE of the answers given were related to ideology, and you came in and agreed with the thread.

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/why-black-voters-prefer-establishment-candidates-over-liberal-alternatives.736538/page-2

Yeah. Black people don't take risks.

White folks out here doing dumbass protest votes then act surprised when idiots like Trump win.

Its not because they don't support those programs.

Black voters are THE most progressive voters based on policy of social welfare. Period. Point blank. Its white voters who keep pushing unrealistic candidates who CANT WIN. This is what the Bernie bro dumbasses dont get. Its not that people love Biden or centrists like Hillary.

This is yet another example of you contradicting your earlier position. You can't claim that Black voters picked Biden for one reason in 2019/20, then come in and try to claim they were doing it for an entirely different reason now.

 

[AquaCityBoy]

Is this thread even about Cornel West anymore