'The Last of Us' - Season 2 Thread (NO GAME SPOILERS!) | HBO | April 13th, 2025 (7 Episodes)

[Roid Jones]

You wouldn’t pound???

Fukk no

 

[kdslittlebro]

I didn’t think they would really get into the Seattle adventure. I don’t think Bella got the singing voice to get that scene from the preview off

 

[kingofnyc]

1. "Sacrificing Ellie wasn’t 100% guaranteed to work."

• No one else was confirmed canonically to have the same specific immunity — a fungal mutation in her brain that produced a chemical messenger that "tricked" the Cordyceps infection.
• Ellie’s immunity wasn’t just resistance; she was infected, but the infection didn’t spread — that's much rarer than simple exposure immunity or natural resistance.
• The Fireflies' lead surgeon (Abby's father) — one of the most qualified experts left alive — believed that this was their best and only shot. In a dying world, the chance alone made it worth pursuing.
• Point: In an extinction-level scenario, risking even a low chance for a cure is rational, especially when the alternative is inevitable collapse.
• Also, time was against humanity — this was not a problem they could keep studying forever.

---

whether or not Ellie was or had a different type of immune system = still does not provide evidence that her sacrifice would be 100%
It’s two a point where this is neither here nor there

so I’ll focus on your other bullet points of extinction level /inevitable collapse in society … at the end of the day that would be a moot point because it’s 20 years after the outbreak , when more than 2/3rds of society either died or became infected … leaving anywhere to less than 30% of the population before this shyt began still existing

With that said this is one of the reasons I believe this so-called vaccine/cure is a waste of time - like literally after the fourth ; fifth year without any type of vaccine or cure … society should’ve just made it clear to move on , because the world that they used to live in will never ever exist again

---

2. "The Fireflies are a militia; they wouldn’t save millions anyway."

• Their slogan was "When you're lost in the darkness, look for the light," implying they saw themselves as the ethical opposition to FEDRA's authoritarianism.
• Giving humanity a vaccine/cure would have made them heroes — which politically and practically would have benefited them much more than hoarding it.
• Even if they had selfish motivations, it doesn’t change the fact that millions could have been saved if a cure worked — because diseases don't obey politics.
• Point: Whether or not the Fireflies were good or bad guys, curing humanity was a tangible way to win legitimacy and real power — so their incentives still favored sharing it.

---

if they are a militia and labeled a terrorist group by FEDRA - what makes you think even if they was to develop the vaccine. they’ve distribute it amongst all different types of people

and the game never addressed even if Abby‘s father came up with the vaccine. How in the hell would he/they mass produce it …. because this theory of them saving millions of millions of lives only means they have to have the ability to produce it

this notion of the FF being this strong opposition to authoritarianism just as simply false ….
What we know is when they first started out at the beginning of the outbreak they had many headquarters throughout the major cities in the country and as a typical militia crew, they lost numerous people from fighting other groups, then they struggle to find leadership which began them fighting each other … which resulted into the overwhelming majority of their members just flat out, leaving the FF

I mean, let’s keep it a buck …. Joel supposedly killed all the remaining FF = Marlene , Abby’s father, a few of his assistance, and their soldiers = that adds up to less than 20 people in total - so once again, how with this tiny crew - mass produce millions of millions of vaccines

at this point is comical

---

3. "It doesn’t matter what Ellie thinks because she’s 13 and wasn’t asked."

• Throughout the story, Ellie constantly demonstrates agency beyond her years. She chose to travel with Joel, chose to fight, and chose to protect him.
• Marlene, who loved Ellie like family, said she "knew Ellie would want to do this" — suggesting it was not a random assumption, but something Ellie herself had expressed.
• Point: If Ellie had been awake and informed, it’s very possible she would have volunteered — which makes Joel’s choice selfish on her behalf.
• Also, Joel wasn’t just protecting Ellie’s rights — he was making the decision for himself because he couldn’t face losing another daughter figure, whether or not it was the greater good.

come on now … there’s no way in the world that an under age person should have the ability to make that type of decision whether they want to or not so that’s not even an argument for you or anybody to even make

As far as Marlene, I don’t know how you can say. She loved Ellie
because one of the points that people don’t realize is that Marlene only knew Ellie for a total of three weeks.
Although Marlene knew Ellie‘s mother and supposedly swore to raise her and protect her, she clearly didn’t.

The story goes, she went to Ellie school and told her she would break her out in weeks …. which she did only to have Joel and Tess deliver her to the FF doctors

 

[Lord Beasley]

What were you wanting to happen after what happened ep 2? Also, it's not filler. Filler means nothing happened to progress the main story.

Waste of time, snooze fest episode.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Waste of time, snooze fest episode.

 

[melraH]

Just caught up with this season, I understand not casting a jacked up chick for the role but I was laughing my ass off with Abby's weak ass punches on Joel show is very entertaining though.

 

[egsteel]

Her bytchass daddy was literally gonna kill an innocent little girl, who gives a fukk about his status. Fukk wrong with y’all lol

Comparing Joel killing them to prevent that from happening ain’t comparable at all.

That’s not even including Abby’s betrayal after he saved her.

Understanding motivation doesn’t mean justification must be included.

Betrayal? Abby owed nothing to him. She was a soldier on a mission. Hate or love Abby all you want but Joel got sloppy and he was never an innocent. That doctor was gonna kill one to potentially save billions.

 

[ReasonableMatic]

Betrayal? Abby owed nothing to him. She was a soldier on a mission. Hate or love Abby all you want but Joel got sloppy and he was never an innocent. That doctor was gonna kill one a little girl with no consent, to potentially save billions.

Fixed* Everything else is irrelevant

 

[Rigby.]

THE WHISTLING I almost took cover as soon as I saw that bald fukker doing it

A lot of important little character moments but very much a transition episode. This made me wonder about coming episodes and a possible season finale more than anything else.

TLOU2 is supposed to last 2 seasons iirc, so we probably gonna get a much slower pace than some expect. I don't remember the game enough to know what a real half point would be tbh.

 

[Rigby.]

I mean, it makes sense. Switching back and forth would've felt incredibly frustrating.

I think they were damn near lose-lose with the story no matter what. I think anything would've been better than the switching between characters, then switching between past and present as clunky as they did it tho.

I can respect why they got that component of Abby's story over with already. If I recall

Spoiler: beginning of TLOU2

Joel and Tommy just save Abby early on, and that's where you're first introduced to her gang. Then he gets killed, you do the Council shyt, and we switch to Abby's motive.

 

[Rigby.]

I thought the episode was OK, but anyway, yeah, Bella's "American" accent was NOT good in this episode lol.

She slipped up so many times

I ain't been terribly mad at Bella, but she works better in the emotional moments than the badass ones. The problem is that you really do need to believe in Ellie the badass as the game progresses.
With them toning down Abby (in more ways than one), viewing the two of them together on screen isn't AS big a gap as it was in the game at least. In general, the TV show is a lot softer and more emotional than I remember the games being tho, so I guess it still lines up

 

[klientel]

TLOU2 is supposed to last 2 seasons iirc, so we probably gonna get a much slower pace than some expect. I don't remember the game enough to know what a real half point would be tbh.

Spoiler

I suspect it ends with some variation of the part where Jesse gets popped, and then the first Abby vs Ellie showdown. Which based on these two characters is going to be like 2 children fighting. I can't wait to see it.

 

[Rigby.]

Spoiler

I suspect it ends with some variation of the part where Jesse gets popped, and then the first Abby vs Ellie showdown. Which based on these two characters is going to be like 2 children fighting. I can't wait to see it.

See I had that in my head but I didn't know how late game it was. I think they reveal Brenda's got a baby around that time too, so that'd be fire to close out on

 

[ChatGPT-5]

whether or not Ellie was or had a different type of immune system = still does not provide evidence that her sacrifice would be 100%
It’s two a point where this is neither here nor there

so I’ll focus on your other bullet points of extinction level /inevitable collapse in society … at the end of the day that would be a moot point because it’s 20 years after the outbreak , when more than 2/3rds of society either died or became infected … leaving anywhere to less than 30% of the population before this shyt began still existing

With that said this is one of the reasons I believe this so-called vaccine/cure is a waste of time - like literally after the fourth ; fifth year without any type of vaccine or cure … society should’ve just made it clear to move on , because the world that they used to live in will never ever exist again

“Her sacrifice wouldn’t be 100% guaranteed.​

You're absolutely right — and I acknowledged earlier that it wasn’t guaranteed. But guarantee isn’t the threshold for morally justifying the attempt.

Why? In apocalyptic settings, even a plausible chance at a cure can be worth the risk.
Example: If there's a 10% chance to reboot civilization or prevent future extinction, and the subject is a unique case, that's the highest-value target the world has seen in two decades.

So yes — not 100%, but uniqueness + stakes = justification for serious consideration.

---

“It’s 20 years after outbreak; most people are dead. A cure is pointless.”​

Here’s where we disagree hard. Because even if 70%+ of humanity is gone, there are two realities the remaining population faces:

• Without a cure: Permanent tribal war, authoritarian zones, infection zones expanding forever, and zero hope of long-term rebuilding.
• With a cure: You end the threat of infection, which lets human beings stabilize, gather, and start re-establishing clean zones, agriculture, medicine, trade — aka, rebuilding actual civilization.

Point: Even if 30% of people remain, that’s hundreds of millions globally. You’re saying humanity should give up on itself because the old world is dead — but ending Cordyceps is the only thing that makes a new world viable.
And once babies start being born in a non-infected world, that’s a new society. It doesn’t have to be the old one to be worth saving.

---

“They should’ve just moved on.”​

This is what Joel believed, too. But that mindset — “we’ve survived this long, we can just adapt” — is exactly how broken cycles perpetuate.

• FEDRA wasn’t moving on.
• The WLF wasn’t moving on.
• The Seraphites weren’t moving on.
  Everyone was stuck in paranoia, violence, or delusion.

Only a cure breaks the cycle — not to go back, but to go forward with purpose.

if they are a militia and labeled a terrorist group by FEDRA - what makes you think even if they was to develop the vaccine. they’ve distribute it amongst all different types of people

and the game never addressed even if Abby‘s father came up with the vaccine. How in the hell would he/they mass produce it …. because this theory of them saving millions of millions of lives only means they have to have the ability to produce it

this notion of the FF being this strong opposition to authoritarianism just as simply false ….
What we know is when they first started out at the beginning of the outbreak they had many headquarters throughout the major cities in the country and as a typical militia crew, they lost numerous people from fighting other groups, then they struggle to find leadership which began them fighting each other … which resulted into the overwhelming majority of their members just flat out, leaving the FF

I mean, let’s keep it a buck …. Joel supposedly killed all the remaining FF = Marlene , Abby’s father, a few of his assistance, and their soldiers = that adds up to less than 20 people in total - so once again, how with this tiny crew - mass produce millions of millions of vaccines

at this point is comical






come on now … there’s no way in the world that an under age person should have the ability to make that type of decision whether they want to or not so that’s not even an argument for you or anybody to even make

As far as Marlene, I don’t know how you can say. She loved Ellie
because one of the points that people don’t realize is that Marlene only knew Ellie for a total of three weeks.
Although Marlene knew Ellie‘s mother and supposedly swore to raise her and protect her, she clearly didn’t.

The story goes, she went to Ellie school and told her she would break her out in weeks …. which she did only to have Joel and Tess deliver her to the FF doctors

 

[ChatGPT-5]

You're right they were labeled a terrorist group by FEDRA — but labeling doesn’t equal truth.

Point: FEDRA were brutal fascists running quarantine zones with martial law, public executions, and strict rationing.
Anyone resisting FEDRA got labeled "terrorist" — it’s a propaganda word.

• Were the Fireflies messy? Absolutely.
• Were they trying to overthrow brutal tyranny and restore freedom? Yes.

And here's the core:
If they created the vaccine, they wouldn’t need to trust FEDRA or any government to "distribute" it — the value of the vaccine itself would shift the power balance in their favor.

• A vaccine = political capital.
• It gives the Fireflies bargaining leverage over surviving groups, or even builds legitimacy to form a new authority.

Bottom line:
The Fireflies didn't have to be perfect — just creating the cure would have forced the world to change.

"How would they mass produce the vaccine?"​

This is your strongest argument — but it’s not ironclad.


Here’s the rebuttal:

• We know there were still functioning labs, engineers, and ex-military bases with electricity (Salt Lake City itself was still semi-operational).
• Manufacturing isn’t instantaneous, but even rudimentary replication could start regionally:
  • Mobile clinics.
  • Administering vaccines manually via limited distribution.
  • Priority groups first: fighters, doctors, children.

It’s not "millions overnight" — but it’s the start of reclaiming the world.
You don't have to flip a switch. You plant the seed.

In other words:
You’re not saving everybody on day one.
You’re stopping extinction and beginning recovery.
That is still worth sacrificing for.

"The Fireflies were falling apart."​

True — the Fireflies were struggling, fractured, and losing battles.


But that’s exactly why the cure mattered more:

• They couldn’t win by force anymore.
• A vaccine was their only path to relevance, survival, and control.
• It’s why Marlene was desperate: she knew this was their last shot to make an impact.

Weakness doesn't make the cure pointless. It makes the cure even more valuable politically.

"Joel killed less than 20 people = Fireflies wiped out."​

Nope — that’s exaggerated.

Marlene’s base in Salt Lake City was one Firefly branch.
Other Firefly groups still existed — they pop up in The Last of Us Part II (Abby’s story arc confirms it).

Joel killing 20 people didn’t destroy the Fireflies worldwide — it destroyed their best hope of rebuilding through medicine.
Fireflies fractured further because the cure was lost, not because Joel magically wiped them out.

"Ellie’s consent doesn’t matter because she’s underage."​

Legally? Correct.
Morally? Much murkier.


Why?
Ellie isn’t a typical 13-year-old.

• She kills, she saves lives, she makes lethal decisions for herself and others.
• In this world, childhood is dead.
  You don't get the luxury of saying "they're kids" when survival requires adult choices every second.

Meaning:
Whether she’s 13 or 30, her will matters because in their world, she had earned her right to choose.
The tragedy is that nobody asked her.
Neither Joel nor the Fireflies respected her humanity.

"Marlene didn’t love Ellie."​

You're oversimplifying here.


Yes, Marlene only knew Ellie for a few weeks personally.
But — Marlene made a blood oath to Ellie’s mother, Anna.
Marlene didn't just see Ellie as a kid — she saw her as the last thing connecting her to Anna, her dead best friend.


Her final lines to Joel — "Let me go," "You can still do the right thing" — show real grief and heartbreak.
She wasn’t casually handing Ellie over to die.
She was torn apart by it.


Meaning:
Marlene loved Ellie, but she loved the world’s survival more.