The Kevin Durant Conundrum...

[WTFisWallace?]

KD would’ve had a ring with OKC if he didn’t run into LeBron’s stacked deck superteam in the first place

Naw, if it wasn’t for the game 6 by Lebron against Boston. Miami would’ve lost…and Boston would’ve went on to crush OKC.



And another thing to note about KD’s two runs with Steph….if CP didn’t get injured in the WCF…fans would’ve eviscerated them something fierce.

 

[In The Zone '98]

Every move he has made since then is based on stacking the deck to increase his chances of winning…

Is it about winning or how you win?

 

[DillaTUDE]

Comparing KD to Bron is a false equivalency. First of all we've seen Bron take rosters weaker than these Nets to The Finals twice. Bron never demanded a trade, much less twice in the same year...

The comparison ends at demanding roster upgrades, which every great player does, by the way. Bron's never tapped out on his squad in the middle of the season, and the chaotic front office or poor coaching in Brooklyn, we know LeBron has dealt with that...

He's never punted on his team in the middle of the season. He's never demanded a trade, and always fulfilled his contractual obligations professionally...

This Nets team, the core of which includes Claxton and Harris and made the playoffs before Durant's arrival, is not the same caliber as the Lakers team that Bron walked into that missed the playoffs 5 years running. Just stop it...

Again it's unproven this Nets team couldn't compete with Milwaukee and Boston. Unless what you're really alluding to is Durant couldn't elevate ti the level Giannis and Tatum can, which would be a revelation. Because this Nets team with Durant, has shooting, so they have spacing. They have both perimeter and front court defense. They have a second scorer in Dinwiddie. They have depth. The only glaring weakness would be lack of a true point guard---->but that weakness was here with Kyrie too and ostensibly you have Simmons who can justify that role with Dinwiddie as a secondary ball handler...

So no, I don't know that he couldn't take this squad over flawed Milwaukee and flawed Boston. This just sounds like you don't believe Durant can transcend and elevate them over the stars the other two have...

You’re not even being serious right now. Clax and Joe (who’s completely washed up) contributed the bare minimal to that ‘18-‘19 season playoff run.

The point is that there’s not a single player on that Nets roster post-Kyrie trade that was more talented than BI or Kuz, and Bron couldn’t even make the playoffs with those guys. Meanwhile, you expect KD to defeat stacked teams like the Bucks and Celtics en route to a championship run with disposables like Dinwiddie and DFS?



Hold KD to the same standard that you held LeBron to during the ‘18-‘19 season.

 

[Gotright]

You’re not even being serious right now. Clax and Joe (who’s completely washed up) contributed the bare minimal to that ‘18-‘19 season playoff run.

The point is that there’s not a single player on that Nets roster post-Kyrie trade that was more talented than BI or Kuz, and Bron couldn’t even make the playoffs with those guys. Meanwhile, you expect KD to defeat stacked teams like the Bucks and Celtics en route to a championship run with disposables like Dinwiddie and DFS?



Hold KD to the same standard that you held LeBron to during the ‘18-‘19 season.

Why do people forget about all the lakers key player that season missing a lot of games due to injuries
Lebron played 55
BI 51
Lonzo 47
Before the injuries started to pile up they was like 4th in the west if I remember Correctly

 

[murksiderock]

KD was not competing with Milwaukee or Boston with Spencer Dinwiddie & Dorian Finney-Smith as his #2 and #3, let’s stop the bullshyt.

Not sure what y’all want from KD at this point, go to Charlotte and carry them to a title? He’s a 1st ballot ATG, one of the best players of his generation. If he’s an underachiever who exactly was the standard we’re holding him to?

I don't know what anyone else's expectations of him are but I already stated upthread what my expectations for him were, and it wasn't no "go to Charlotte" shyt you throwing out there...

The standard I'm holding him to is the same standard the other Top 15 GOATs are held to. Show us how you persevere thru coaching and front office and ownership and roster limitations. Anyone can win with the most talent in The League, or the most Top heavy team. Show us what you are when you don't have that...

We know what LeBron accomplished in less advantageous situations. Hakeem led a Finals run in '86 in less advantageous situations. Mike fought thru a train wreck franchise in Chicago without asking out. Steph fought thru both a train wreck franchise and a rough rebuild. Magic led a Finals run with everyone around him declining. The Comeback Kobe run is one if the more impressive feats in league history...

I can keep going...

Be a fukking leader in times bad, not just when times are good for you. The fukking Nets gave the whole franchise to him and he doubles back as if he had no hand in their struggles. I'm not even asking him to sign his life over to them, but he could have played this year out. LeBron and Hakeem have taken rosters worse than '23 Brooklyn to Finals appearances. Show the squad you got them, and if it doesn't work out, okay re-evaluate the options after the season...

He fukking helped create the culture of chaos in Brooklyn then ducked out. That shyt ain't respectable. He gets critiqued I GS for being a mercenary and gets his feelings hurt, so he ducks out rather than stay in the best basketball situation. Picked the wrong guy as his running mate...

Had 8 years with Westbrook and a 1-3 Finals record, those two are basically the '10s version of West and Baylor, and Stockton and Malone. I can name multiple All-Timers who won with lesser historical players than Westbrook as their wingman, do you really want me to list them out?

He's the only guy un that GOAT15 range that we have so many questions about commitment. He deserves to be held to the fire for it...

Kawhi’s Toronto run can only be compared to Dirk’s 2011 run and Duncan’s 03 run in terms of the limited amount of talent around him. shyt was incredible.


OP brings up KD injuries holding him back…we saw Kawhi push his body to the max during the Toronto run…man has not really been the same since.

Kawhi also has the ring, where he was the key factor, even made Lebron wince during games…..over Wade & Lebron. Had it not been for that Ray Allen shot, nikka would’ve been part of really fukking up Lebron’s whole narrative. I don’t see how KD’s two championship run with Steph’s Warriors can even begin to compare.



I think nikkas really overlook what Kawhi has done. He’s clearly the 3rd best/impactful player of the 10s (behind Lebron and Steph obviously).

Kawhi can't string together three complete seasons of elite performance, he's not above Durant...

That '19 Raptors squad was significantly better than the Mavs and Spurs rosters you're comparing them to. And Kawhi wasn't a Top 2 option on the '14 Spurs, he played his role well but you're gassing his performance...

I'm not giving Durant an injury out either, it's a demerit. He's been hurt almost annually, since Y8. He's brittle. And if I'm not giving him that out I'm certainly not giving Kawhi that out...

I like both Kev and Kawhi. As many questions as I have about Kev I have more about Kawhi...

Kareem is almost universally viewed as a top 5 player of all time yet he was not a leader. Needed Oscar and then later Magic. Keep it moving jack

Man trust me I'm no Kareem Stan. The reasons you just listed are part of the reason I don't think he has a legitimate GOAT case. They aren't the only ones, though...

KD would’ve had a ring with OKC if he didn’t run into LeBron’s stacked deck superteam in the first place

That was one season. What was the excuse the other OKC years?

 

[Primetime21]

 

[fifth column]

Ultimately there are just too many question marks with dude. Do I think he's one of the greatest players ever. Obviously yes...

But his decision making, on-court play in several occasions, and inability to mesh with other superstars aside from a team that was already a champion, reflect on the difficulty of having Durant as your best player. He isn't a consummate leader nor a true elevator of talent...

What he is though, is a guy who if you give him the most talented or Top heavy roster in The League, he can tilt the scales to nearly unbeatable. He's not a guy that if you give him league average rosters or less than Top 5 rosters, who can elevate you to contention, and he's not a ride or die player either...

The Kevin Durant Conundrum essentially is how a player of this historical magnitude accomplished so little and never proved to be the "driver" of Championship success...

You saw him destroy Lebron in 2017 and 2018 and it crushed you so you can’t let go, I get it. It’s the main motive of all of you and the blind witnesses with these thinly disguised hate posts.

 

[murksiderock]

You’re not even being serious right now. Clax and Joe (who’s completely washed up) contributed the bare minimal to that ‘18-‘19 season playoff run.

The point is that there’s not a single player on that Nets roster post-Kyrie trade that was more talented than BI or Kuz, and Bron couldn’t even make the playoffs with those guys. Meanwhile, you expect KD to defeat stacked teams like the Bucks and Celtics en route to a championship run with disposables like Dinwiddie and DFS?



Hold KD to the same standard that you held LeBron to during the ‘18-‘19 season.

It's not the same situation as the '19 Lakers no matter how you slice it. When LeBron returned from injury in '19 he came back to a team much worse than these Nets Durant would’ve come back to, that was still the 5 seed until two days ago. Stop playing, bruh...

 

[murksiderock]

You saw him destroy Lebron in 2017 and 2018 and it crushed you so you can’t let go, I get it. It’s the main motive of all of you and the blind witnesses with these thinly disguised hate posts.

You love speaking for me and be dead ass wrong ...

 

[Creflo ½ Dollar]

not sure i can put him top 15

Giannis will surpass him rather soon

Hakeem
Shaq
Kareem
Lebron
Jordan
Curry
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Russell
Wilt
Timmy
Isiah
Dr J
Big O
Moses

I'd consider taking all the above over KD

Sir Charles, Karl Malone,

He around where KG and Dwade at. His time at Golden State as a super role player don’t really help his standings. Plug any other top 15 SF in his place and they would have did the same thing.

By hisself he got the same accomplishments as AI.

 

[I AM WARHOL]

I don't know what anyone else's expectations of him are but I already stated upthread what my expectations for him were, and it wasn't no "go to Charlotte" shyt you throwing out there...

The standard I'm holding him to is the same standard the other Top 15 GOATs are held to. Show us how you persevere thru coaching and front office and ownership and roster limitations. Anyone can win with the most talent in The League, or the most Top heavy team. Show us what you are when you don't have that...

We know what LeBron accomplished in less advantageous situations. Hakeem led a Finals run in '86 in less advantageous situations. Mike fought thru a train wreck franchise in Chicago without asking out. Steph fought thru both a train wreck franchise and a rough rebuild. Magic led a Finals run with everyone around him declining. The Comeback Kobe run is one if the more impressive feats in league history...

I can keep going...

Be a fukking leader in times bad, not just when times are good for you. The fukking Nets gave the whole franchise to him and he doubles back as if he had no hand in their struggles. I'm not even asking him to sign his life over to them, but he could have played this year out. LeBron and Hakeem have taken rosters worse than '23 Brooklyn to Finals appearances. Show the squad you got them, and if it doesn't work out, okay re-evaluate the options after the season...

He fukking helped create the culture of chaos in Brooklyn then ducked out. That shyt ain't respectable. He gets critiqued I GS for being a mercenary and gets his feelings hurt, so he ducks out rather than stay in the best basketball situation. Picked the wrong guy as his running mate...

Had 8 years with Westbrook and a 1-3 Finals record, those two are basically the '10s version of West and Baylor, and Stockton and Malone. I can name multiple All-Timers who won with lesser historical players than Westbrook as their wingman, do you really want me to list them out?

He's the only guy un that GOAT15 range that we have so many questions about commitment. He deserves to be held to the fire for it...



Kawhi can't string together three complete seasons of elite performance, he's not above Durant...

That '19 Raptors squad was significantly better than the Mavs and Spurs rosters you're comparing them to. And Kawhi wasn't a Top 2 option on the '14 Spurs, he played his role well but you're gassing his performance...

I'm not giving Durant an injury out either, it's a demerit. He's been hurt almost annually, since Y8. He's brittle. And if I'm not giving him that out I'm certainly not giving Kawhi that out...

I like both Kev and Kawhi. As many questions as I have about Kev I have more about Kawhi...



Man trust me I'm no Kareem Stan. The reasons you just listed are part of the reason I don't think he has a legitimate GOAT case. They aren't the only ones, though...



That was one season. What was the excuse the other OKC years?

All you need is one season. If he wins one in OKC with the same exact history afterwards, you aren’t making this thread

 

[murksiderock]

All you need is one season. If he wins one in OKC with the same exact history afterwards, you aren’t making this thread

No you Miami's Super Team is the reason he didn't win in OKC. He only played them once. The other 8 years he was in OKC arent attributable to LeBron in any way...

 

[Shadow King]

He didn't evade any criticism for those moments though. He was criticised, folks cracked jokes and questioned him as a leader. So you may have felt he got a pass for those but he didn't. To say he evades critique isn't correct.

Just last year I recall folks on this very board saying KD should have been able to lead the team to at least one win against Boston, and for me that stands true.

Regarding him leaving the Nets, I have a feeling that if Marks and Tsai had shown KD a clear path to the team being rebuilt quickly, or if they had traded Kyrie for another star he might have been onboard, but I don't see that the Nets had a plan themselves, they were just tired of Kyrie and weren't willing to make any concessions for him to get the max salary. All well and good, but these are the consequences.

Durant may have gotten some criticism, but for some reason people move on from it way faster than anybody else. Anyone else on his level has negative narratives stick with them. Maybe Steph comes close but even he has at least 1 or 2 consistent knocks.

Also he requested out of BK before the Kyrie trade, so it wasn't about the Nets direction. The Nets had no plan because everything was about selling their soul to keep that duo happy. They didn't hold their end of the deal, and KD as the player of his stature with his (supposed) mission was supposed to sidebar with Kyrie and hold him accountable. He did not.

Luka isn't nearly as proven as Durant, his game is part of the reason he couldn't win with those guys. Durant doesn't play like Luka...

Dinwiddie, DFS, Claxton, Curry, Harris, O'Neal, Warren, you're telling me this is a roster that ONCE DURANT CAME BACK couldn't compete at a championship level?

I overall agree with you but saying this Nets team is a chip contender w/o Kyrie is a bit too far breh.

 

[I AM WARHOL]

Naw, if it wasn’t for the game 6 by Lebron against Boston. Miami would’ve lost…and Boston would’ve went on to crush OKC.



And another thing to note about KD’s two runs with Steph….if CP didn’t get injured in the WCF…fans would’ve eviscerated them something fierce.

Maybe they win but Zero chance they destroy them. I’d bet heavy on OKC. I think OKC wins in 6. Go look at that year again. No way of proving it tho unfortunately

 

[I AM WARHOL]

No you Miami's Super Team is the reason he didn't win in OKC. He only played them once. The other 8 years he was in OKC arent attributable to LeBron in any way...

He literally wins in 2012 if not for lebron and Miami. No reason to bring up the other years when we know they had that head to head matchup. Hell, if they win they probably don’t trade harden either