The hatred for Mutants in the Marvel Universe has never made sense to me

[It is a mystery]

whites probably feared blacks more in real life at one point (and some probably still do) than humans feared mutants in the marvel universe

 

[Supercoolmayo]

Yea they only want presentable looking mutants in their presence.

 

[It is a mystery]

idk if presentable mutants is true. They didn't even like Jubilee or others like her who looked like regular teenagers the second they were branded as mutants

 

[The axe murderer]

whites probably feared blacks more in real life at one point (and some probably still do) than humans feared mutants in the marvel universe

And blacks don't rewrite the universe, blow up cities, eat stars, etc.

 

[ORDER_66]

And blacks don't rewrite the universe, blow up cities, eat stars, etc.

Wha mutant can eat stars tho????

 

[The axe murderer]

Wha mutant can eat stars tho????

Jean Gray phoenix force

 

[Birnin Zana]

And sometimes they make a good point to that allegory.......other times not so much

Some good points about this and other situations (Kitty, via Clairemont, used that example more than once).

Cass

October 3, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Of all the types of bigotry in the world, throughout time, white American racism against blacks seems like one of the least comparable to the X-Men’s struggle. It’s just a bad fit. For one, Black Americans cannot pass for white the way most X-Men can pass for ordinary human beings. Also, Blacks were viewed as inferior to whites; their main perceived threat came from the notion that they would sully and dilute white culture. The X-Men are homo-superior, they are feared because they have tremendous power. With this N-word business, it seems like Claremont was going for maximum shock value, but with minimal thought on the parallel he was setting up. As I see it, something like antisemitism would have been a better fit.​

ellbell01
October 3, 2015 at 4:58 pm
The problem with equating “mutie” to “******”, is that there isn’t a long real-life history of slavery and institutional oppression for the mutants (at least, not on the same level) in the Marvel Universe. And being black, or Chinese, or a homosexual is not a super power you can use to defend yourself. Maybe the people getting attacked with fire hoses and tied to fences and beaten would have benefited from being able to fire concussive blasts from their eyes. Mutants in these stories have special abilities inborn to them being mutants. In real life, no racial group really has any inherent special set of skills. Mutants are walking weapons. A black person, an Asian person, a gay person, any minority or indeed any majority don’t have super powers that they can call upon to take themselves out of a dangerous situation that risks their lives and it’s in a way insensitive to compare those things. When dogs were being sicced on African-American protesters, they couldn’t fly away or cause minor earthquakes or anything of the sort.

You Go Your Way and I Go Mine: Kitty Pryde's Use of the N-Word | Comics Should Be Good @ CBR

 

[ORDER_66]

Jean Gray phoenix force

Yeah, But the phoenix force was an "Alien" entity that did that.... It wasnt HER per se'.

 

[The axe murderer]

Yeah, But the phoenix force was an "Alien" entity that did that.... It wasnt HER per se'.

True but you get guys like Legion and Franklin richards who do shyt on a universal scale without the phoenix force though. Omega level goons

 

[Birnin Zana]

And sometimes they make a good point to that allegory.......other times not so much

Honestly, that scene was, again, well-intentioned, but it would've worked muuuuuuuch better if Claremont used a Black X-Men (Storm for example) and slightly altered the convo between both Phil (the black dude) and the Black X-Men.

Another comment:

You Go Your Way and I Go Mine: Kitty Pryde's Use of the N-Word | Comics Should Be Good @ CBR

T.
October 5, 2015 at 8:15 am
Here are some of my big problems with the scene…I get the point that Claremont was trying to make but at the end of the day, it’s a white person lecturing a black person about racism. It’s like some right wing nutjob or patronizing white liberal’s wet dream: the idea of blacks being “the real racists” or racial hypocrites. It’s a common trope that’s very insulting. It reminds me of a terrible Roy Thomas Avengers story where he revealed that a black person and white person were working together to fuel racial hatred among white supremacists and black radicals, with the idea being that blacks are just as guilty of racism as whites, and that black racism is the same as white racism.

It’s annoying enough that as a black man white comics fans and creators try to tell you that you’re supposed to appreciate the X-Men as being some type of analogue for your real life struggle, despite the fact that very few of the X-Men are actually black but instead are white and traditionally attractive, meaning they benefit from white privilege and traditional beauty standards privilege. The X-Men can CHOOSE to pass for nonmutant, and when they do choose to do so, they are white, beautiful nonmutants that get all the privileges that come with being white and beautiful. Also, as another poster put, most of the stigma that gets put on blacks is of being genetically inferior and primitive, and that’s used as justification for the hatred they receive. Mutants are hated for the stereotype of being powerful and more evolved.

So in summation…mutants are feared for being able to pass for “normal” whites, are feared because they are thought to be MORE powerful and advanced, and feared to be plotting to use their superiority to take over the world…in many ways mutants are a better analogue for Jews than blacks. So it becomes extra fitting the Jewish X-Man is used to lecture the black people multiple times…it not only puts insulting “reverse racism” and “you’re the real racists” accusations against blacks, you also get a “model minority” undertone thrown in as well.

So as a black reader in the 80s, it’s bad enough that this group that is a poor substitute for black people gets held up as a good analogue for my struggle despite being rich, white, beautiful, and gifted with super-powers and feared for their superiority….then on top of that I have to read this uberprivileged, rich, powerful group condescendingly lecture the group they’re SUPPOSED to be representing on being the REAL racists, casually using the word “******” to do so to boot. And the black people eat crow and kowtow to the lecture from the rich, beautiful, powerful, whites?

If you’re created to supposedly represent a group’s struggle, but not only do a poor job of being an analogue to that group but even go so far as to lecture the group you’re supposed to be representing and start presenting that oppressed group as oppressors themselves in order to champion for nonexistent group, that’s social commentary fail on every level. I don’t need Kitty Pryde (or Claremont) to lecture me as a black man on how words like “******” hurt and to tell me which other words are as bad as “******.”

Or why not have Kitty talk to a white person who is okay with calling mutants “muties” but recognizes black rights? She could tell the white person “hey, you wouldn’t call a black person “******” so why would you call a mutant “mutie?” I could tolerate that more than her doing the reverse racism lecture and throwing the word ****** in black people’s (and readers) faces.

 

[The axe murderer]

Honestly, that scene was, again, well-intentioned, but it would've worked muuuuuuuch better if Claremont used a Black X-Men (Storm for example) and slightly altered the convo between both Phil (the black dude) and the Black X-Men.

Another comment:

You Go Your Way and I Go Mine: Kitty Pryde's Use of the N-Word | Comics Should Be Good @ CBR

​

This is what I was thinking as well, we already get flack from the right wing nutjobs saying "the ones who speak on racism are the real racists". I mean to be honest if I took that shock value approach with another race like if it went like "are you a ******, I don't know are you a kike" I don't think it would go well. Well intended but the delivery had me

 

[Birnin Zana]

This is what I was thinking as well, we already get flack from the right wing nutjobs saying "the ones who speak on racism are the real racists". I mean to be honest if I took that shock value approach with another race like if it went like "are you a ******, I don't know are you a kike" I don't think it would go well. Well intended but the delivery had me

Most likely, you and the other dude would be scrapping right after that.

I understand why many would say the X-Men represented the civil right movement in some way, but me personally, I respected the Mutant struggle for what it was, but I never could equate them to that movement of the 60s. Comparing the Black Struggle to the Mutant Struggle is similar to how many compare the Black struggle to the gay struggle or even struggles that Jews face. Sure, there are similarities, but there are inherently different. And those differences are very clear when you think about it.

And as far as the MU is concern, its rather interesting that many compare the Mutant struggle to the black struggle when there are actual black superheroes in the MU, and especially the black American superheroes, that could actually illustrate the struggles black people had in the US. As the previous commentator I posted mentioned, most of the X-Men looked human and were white. The strong majority of them could've blended into society if they wanted and nobody would know a thing. Meanwhile, the X-Men only had one black mutant (Storm) at the time (correct me if I'm wrong). Storm would have a much harder time integrating into society than most of the X-Men would by default. Yet the X-Men were supposed to be an allegory of the black struggle. The optics don't fit.

 

[It is a mystery]

Cass
October 3, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Of all the types of bigotry in the world, throughout time, white American racism against blacks seems like one of the least comparable to the X-Men’s struggle. It’s just a bad fit. For one, Black Americans cannot pass for white the way most X-Men can pass for ordinary human beings. Also, Blacks were viewed as inferior to whites; their main perceived threat came from the notion that they would sully and dilute white culture. The X-Men are homo-superior, they are feared because they have tremendous power. With this N-word business, it seems like Claremont was going for maximum shock value, but with minimal thought on the parallel he was setting up. As I see it, something like antisemitism would have been a better fit.

So what this person is trying to say is that jewish people would be the better fit for being superior and that black people couldn't do it?

ellbell01
October 3, 2015 at 4:58 pm
The problem with equating “mutie” to “******”, is that there isn’t a long real-life history of slavery and institutional oppression for the mutants (at least, not on the same level) in the Marvel Universe. And being black, or Chinese, or a homosexual is not a super power you can use to defend yourself. Maybe the people getting attacked with fire hoses and tied to fences and beaten would have benefited from being able to fire concussive blasts from their eyes. Mutants in these stories have special abilities inborn to them being mutants. In real life, no racial group really has any inherent special set of skills. Mutants are walking weapons. A black person, an Asian person, a gay person, any minority or indeed any majority don’t have super powers that they can call upon to take themselves out of a dangerous situation that risks their lives and it’s in a way insensitive to compare those things. When dogs were being sicced on African-American protesters, they couldn’t fly away or cause minor earthquakes or anything of the sort.

The Government in x-men did set up an institutional oppression system on the mutants. Xmen also got imprisoned over nothing and had sentinels sicced on them and there wasn't shyt they could do about it even with their powers

 

[Birnin Zana]

Cass
October 3, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Of all the types of bigotry in the world, throughout time, white American racism against blacks seems like one of the least comparable to the X-Men’s struggle. It’s just a bad fit. For one, Black Americans cannot pass for white the way most X-Men can pass for ordinary human beings. Also, Blacks were viewed as inferior to whites; their main perceived threat came from the notion that they would sully and dilute white culture. The X-Men are homo-superior, they are feared because they have tremendous power. With this N-word business, it seems like Claremont was going for maximum shock value, but with minimal thought on the parallel he was setting up. As I see it, something like antisemitism would have been a better fit.

So what this person is trying to say is that jewish people would be the better fit for being superior and that black people couldn't do it?

The main point the commenter is trying to make is that the Mutant struggle resembles more what Jews had to go through. Being "superior" has little to do with it.

Like most jews, most mutants we are introduced to are white. Add the fact that most of them have a good amount of control of their powers, and they can integrate into American society far easier than black people can, especially at the time.

Some Jews get push back when people find out that they are jewish. Same with mutants. The reasons for the push back are different, but there is push back nonetheless. Hence the commenter thinking the Mutant struggle is more akin to antisemitism.

Black people get push back right off the gate based on how we look.

ellbell01
October 3, 2015 at 4:58 pm

The problem with equating “mutie” to “******”, is that there isn’t a long real-life history of slavery and institutional oppression for the mutants (at least, not on the same level) in the Marvel Universe. And being black, or Chinese, or a homosexual is not a super power you can use to defend yourself. Maybe the people getting attacked with fire hoses and tied to fences and beaten would have benefited from being able to fire concussive blasts from their eyes. Mutants in these stories have special abilities inborn to them being mutants. In real life, no racial group really has any inherent special set of skills. Mutants are walking weapons. A black person, an Asian person, a gay person, any minority or indeed any majority don’t have super powers that they can call upon to take themselves out of a dangerous situation that risks their lives and it’s in a way insensitive to compare those things. When dogs were being sicced on African-American protesters, they couldn’t fly away or cause minor earthquakes or anything of the sort.

The Government in x-men did set up an institutional oppression system on the mutants. Xmen also got imprisoned over nothing and had sentinels sicced on them and there wasn't shyt they could do about it even with their powers​

​

Again, the mere fact that the black struggle and the mutant struggle are struggles means there will be similarities.

But, as the commentor above mentioned, mutants are essentially superpowered beings who for the most part can pass off as humans. Their abilities are the reason they are oppressed. This is different than being black. Black people immediately go through a lot of crap purely off of how they look. Not what they do or even might do, in many cases. And black people don't have superpowers to defend themselves either.

 

[Mowgli]

Xmen Mutants are more like faggits then black people