The Anti-hero/Grey Villainy is the worst thing to happen to the way antagonists are written in comics, TV and movies.

[Easy-E]

Main modern culprits; Thanos, Killmonger, Reva from Obi-Wan, Magneto, Karli (from the Captain America), Wanda from the time of her TV to the Dr. Strange movie

This is mostly about NERD shyt, but, I'm sure you could come up with ppl like Omar (well-written character, but, ppl started biting the style).

These muh'fukkas will do objectively EVIL things and get a pass because "Well, what they doing it for makes sense" or they're painted as a victim of a much bigger threat.

I don't know if it's secret military propaganda, but, this trend is annoying because it lends itself to horrible writing when the main character never really develops because the antagonist "isn't that bad, right?" So, the story goes all over the place.

Killmonger is a good character, but, it was at the expense of T'Challa who already was painted as a lesser hero to the Dora's, less/equally smart to his regular sister, needign the CIA's help, not good enough of a king to deal with Klaw, undermined by his own army, etc., etc.

And when the story needed to conclude with the bad guy losing, they turned Killmonger into a coli poster who wanted to kill all white people no plan, just, we arming black ppl and killing all crackas

I still think they should've write him being slowly intregrated into Wakanda and slowly getting ppl to trust me and the main plot turning into him trying to usurp the throne from T'Challa in sly manner. They bring up how his squad was trained to interegrate into any country...wait, I think that was the Winter Soliders. But, you get my point, play up his intelligence and give him an actual plan

Can a villian be evil, but, maybe elegant and well rounded and human? Hell yea; Kingpin (from the Netflix) show, is a perfect example. Nobody tried to convince you he was a good guy deep down.

Antagonists are just that, they move the story forward by giving

 

[King Sun]

I never thought killmonger was a good guy after he killed his black queen in cold blood to get to his goal. But no I think with life shyt isn't as a simple as good or bad imo and the art is just being more realistic or attempting to.

 

[CHICAGO]

I never thought killmonger was a good guy after he killed his black queen in cold blood to get to his goal. But no I think with life shyt isn't as a simple as good or bad imo and the art is just being more realistic or attempting to.

BREAUGH SHE WAS DEAD ANYWAY
ONCE KLAW GOT AHOLD OF HER.

YOU GOTTA KNOW
WHO YOURE DEALING WITH
OR BOTH OF YALL ARE DEAD.


​

 

[Mr. Negative]

But that type of shyt has been going on since Watchmen in 1985.

I forget which comic writer said it (or had a character he was writing say it), but the main reason villains always explain their origins or reveal their plans for the hero to thwart is the fact they wanna be understood. (actually that may be a Ozymandias quote from Watchmen). It's just more realistic than having some cackling agent of chaos.

And even without that "morally gray" background, there are folks that'll always find some dumb ass reason to relate to even the classic Venoms, Carnages, Jokers, or even Anton (from No Country for Old Men)s of media.

Hell, I love pointing out how rappers were dropping freestyles en masse comparing themselves to Omar.... until he was gay.

 

[MoshpitMazi]

I never thought killmonger was a good guy after he killed his black queen in cold blood to get to his goal. But no I think with life shyt isn't as a simple as good or bad imo and the art is just being more realistic or attempting to.

I looked at that as they both knew what was up and did what had to be done for the ultimate plan but shyt

 

[Json]

I mean it’s fine if that’s the point of the singular story you want to tell.

The problem is that with so much stuff being ongoing, continuing narratives, eventually you run into the problem of creating new justification on old narratives.

People bring up how comics are like soap operas but it’s true. That genre defined a lot of what we see now. Early comics where just random stories with very little continuity.

Soaps from the being were built on shocking twist and reversals of established lore because these were meant to be the same characters week to week.

 

[R=G]

Magneto carried the x men as a tweener...but str8 villainy isn't all too captivating. Joker, Red Skull..they're alright but Magneto, Doom, Harley Quinn types moved the needle.

 

[Easy-E]

Magneto carried the x men as a tweener...but str8 villainy isn't all too captivating. Joker, Red Skull..they're alright but Magneto, Doom, Harley Quinn types moved the needle.

There's obvisoiusly a balance.

We're far removed from; I wanna destroy the world...just cuz. We've gotten to the point the "good guys" feel bad about dealing with the "bad guys" and the "good buy" becomes the antagonist.

I forget which comic writer said it (or had a character he was writing say it), but the main reason villains always explain their origins or reveal their plans for the hero to thwart is the fact they wanna be understood. (actually that may be a Ozymandias quote from Watchmen). It's just more realistic than having some cackling agent of chaos.

I read Watchmen and Ozymandias was portrayed as a selfish, narrissictic, evil, cold and calculating self-serving man. No "he's doing this for his sick daughters because of an unfair healthcare system."

John Q still went too jail, but, he never kills anyone.

 

[42 Monks]

If anything, I think too many shows are falling in love with it. Comics and book? Not so much lately....

But on TV and in movies especially, producers try way too hard to give villains a good reason.

Its very okay to simply have a scumbag be a scumbag. If anything its harder to write an A1 piece of shyt that actually puts points up on the board.

 

[ORDER_66]

I like it... look at magneto he's an antihero/villain who's relatable... most villains are not just villains to be villains not everyone is frieza who's a narcissistic a$$hole who wants to rule over everyone. some villains have a purpose and that's it... with alot of gray areas... dudes like frieza deserve to die...

 

[R=G]

Magneto became right so many times..he had to go the other way. There is no reason for Polaris to fight him when he gave her purpose..for Rogue to go against him after he saved her...Saved Kitty Pryde from being a ghost....

The Rock..Austin....Jake Roberts...Dexter Morgan...etc...

 

[42 Monks]

You know I STILL love that Days of Future Past intro

All the kids in the theater looking forward to seeing their faves the sentinels came through and SMOKED the whole squad.

We need more of that. No talking, rationalization, bargaining.... listen - goons are outside. Who gonna be ready next time they pull up the kids want to know too.

 

[Jazzy B.]

Main modern culprits; Thanos, Killmonger, Reva from Obi-Wan, Magneto, Karli (from the Captain America), Wanda from the time of her TV to the Dr. Strange movie

This is mostly about NERD shyt, but, I'm sure you could come up with ppl like Omar (well-written character, but, ppl started biting the style).

These muh'fukkas will do objectively EVIL things and get a pass because "Well, what they doing it for makes sense" or they're painted as a victim of a much bigger threat.

I don't know if it's secret military propaganda, but, this trend is annoying because it lends itself to horrible writing when the main character never really develops because the antagonist "isn't that bad, right?" So, the story goes all over the place.

Killmonger is a good character, but, it was at the expense of T'Challa who already was painted as a lesser hero to the Dora's, less/equally smart to his regular sister, needign the CIA's help, not good enough of a king to deal with Klaw, undermined by his own army, etc., etc.

And when the story needed to conclude with the bad guy losing, they turned Killmonger into a coli poster who wanted to kill all white people no plan, just, we arming black ppl and killing all crackas

I still think they should've write him being slowly intregrated into Wakanda and slowly getting ppl to trust me and the main plot turning into him trying to usurp the throne from T'Challa in sly manner. They bring up how his squad was trained to interegrate into any country...wait, I think that was the Winter Soliders. But, you get my point, play up his intelligence and give him an actual plan

Can a villian be evil, but, maybe elegant and well rounded and human? Hell yea; Kingpin (from the Netflix) show, is a perfect example. Nobody tried to convince you he was a good guy deep down.

Antagonists are just that, they move the story forward by giving

T'Challa being undermined had nothing to do with the anti hero trope.

It was everything to do with Disney wanting a "safe black male" (which T'Challa is NOT in the comic) as a lead superhero that will defend his people AND cacs.

Which meant it was impossible for it to be written where Killmonger and T'Challa have an actual discussion about what he wants to do.

It was the same with Superman (another "safe" character) and Zod in Man of Steel with what Zod wanted to do. Due to how Superman is written he could never say "I want krypton back too maybe we should bring it back this way"

What was wrong with Kilmonger's plan? it was to overthrow and destroy the global white power structure/white supremacy in a coordinated and surprise attack. Did you miss the part where they said Wakanda has spies embedded in every high level nation which they were going to hit first?.

 

[Jazzy B.]

I never thought killmonger was a good guy after he killed his black queen in cold blood to get to his goal.

His goal which was the emancipation of black people globally from the white power structure/white supremacy .

 

[Marks]

I think the real issue is a lot of these mainstream films/ips or w/e are targeted at children so they have to do a lot of half assed bs and juelzing to make them work for that audience. True grey characters are like you said, characters in the wire or sopranos. Ppl who do objectively heinous or bad shyt, but are multi faceted. Have families and loved ones they care for and care about etc.

You couldn't have Killmonger be so charismatic, charming AND have a legit plan to emanicpate black ppl that didn't include genocide or he wouldn't be an appropriate villain for a kids movie. This is all kids shyt, it has to be extreme.