The African Traditional And Diasporic Religions Thread (Santeria, IFA, 21 Divisions, Sanse + etc)

[Guvnor]

I went to boarding high school in Western Nigeria. During orientation for new students, we visited Olumo Rock in Ogun State Nigeria. It is essentially a giant rock that was a fortress for the Egba people in the 19th century or so. I was 14 at the time and this was my first encounter with real "native" spirits. There was a priestess there that was soooooo old and she just had a very weird aura around her. Our guide gave her some money and told us to be very careful with anything we touched.

She had these bottles around her. Like 5 or 6 of them, like old school Coke and Sprite bottles. Nothing out of the ordinary. Except, some girl in our group opened one of the bottles, looked inside and started crying. No word why, but some say she saw a fairy inside them.

I will say this, Voodoo, Candomble, Orishas, Vodoun etc all of these African, Carribean, Brazilian and Afro-Latin spirit practices are real. But trust me when I say the spirits that are being worshiped are not wholesome. My grandfather's siblings all worshiped these spirits but he converted to Christianity for good reason. There are some things I think people should not try to meddle with, these spirits are one of them.

Thanks for sharing your story, that seems scary man. Interesting you say that because when I learn about Santeria it doesn't seem like it's supposed to be that way as it's very big on community and one of the most important principles is iwa pele or good charcter and that is what the religion is supposed to help you build. However although I feel a connection to the religion, from the drums to the ideals and the stories I could never find a god parent ironically because I kept running into scam artist and people with bad character. With that said I just chalked it up to the religion not being for me.

I also find it scary that these spirits need blood. What happens when they are not fed and don't get what they want? They also are described as being just like us human beings with their emotions and feelings. In Palo they describe the spirits of their religion as blood thirsty deities.

 

[Guvnor]

I don't know what ailed him. Medical care in Nigeria was quite poor in the 1950s/early 1960s.

Oh I see. People probably had to strongly rely on traditional methods and from what I hear those things actually work a lot of the times. Some people go to the doctor and get no working treatment and their problem persists but they see the "voodoo man" and are cured.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Thanks for sharing your story, that seems scary man. Interesting you say that because when I learn about Santeria it doesn't seem like it's supposed to be that way as it's very big on community and one of the most important principles is iwa pele or good charcter and that is what the religion is supposed to help you build. However although I feel a connection to the religion, from the drums to the ideals and the stories I could never find a god parent ironically because I kept running into scam artist and people with bad character. With that said I just chalked it up to the religion not being for me.

I also find it scary that these spirits need blood. What happens when they are not fed and don't get what they want? They also are described as being just like us human beings with their emotions and feelings. In Palo they describe the spirits of their religion as blood thirsty deities.

How does the moral ambivalence or malevolence of the deities which are worshipped in Palo affect their morality? What guides people who worship Palo do undertake morally good acts?

Or is the exisential one which places human beings against the spirits?

 

[phcitywarrior]

Thanks for sharing your story, that seems scary man. Interesting you say that because when I learn about Santeria it doesn't seem like it's supposed to be that way as it's very big on community and one of the most important principles is iwa pele or good charcter and that is what the religion is supposed to help you build. However although I feel a connection to the religion, from the drums to the ideals and the stories I could never find a god parent ironically because I kept running into scam artist and people with bad character. With that said I just chalked it up to the religion not being for me.

I also find it scary that these spirits need blood. What happens when they are not fed and don't get what they want? They also are described as being just like us human beings with their emotions and feelings. In Palo they describe the spirits of their religion as blood thirsty deities.

These spirits aren't what they are billed out to be. Growing up in Nigeria we had a native doctor that lived in our neighbourhood. His practices were really boderline demonic eg sacrificing goats, eccentric demands of patients, blood rituals etc.

It gets even worse when you look at Nigerians Cults aka Fraternities that dwell with these spirits. A lot of evil is carried out when those two mix.

There's a resurgence of this stuff as blacks in the US are looking to find their African roots etc. I applaud the effort but I would really steer people away from this practice. Some of these spirits are straight from the underworld to keep it 100. I've seen the masqurades, the juju men, etc.

I know in ATL theres a resurgence of Ifa within the scammer/hustler/underground community. People have been making a lot of money from it but real evil things have been happening to those who falter.

Many people will say "ohh no this isnt black magic and its totally cool or the spirits are good and friendly etc"

I'll end with this quote from one of my favourite movies that is applicable to those quotes

"The greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing people he never existed"

 

[Guvnor]

How does the moral ambivalence or malevolence of the deities which are worshipped in Palo affect their morality? What guides people who worship Palo do undertake morally good acts?

Or is the exisential one which places human beings against the spirits?

Can you rephrase the question? I'm not to into Palo but I know a little bit and can only answer from what I learned.

Are you asking how the ambivalence of the deities affect the practitioners? Also what guides the people in Palo to do morally good acts?

Is this the question.

If I understand your question correctly then I would have to say it doesn't effect the people but effects the way in which one would use these deities. Some are used for Love and etc and the initial one you get is based on your path just like in Santeria you have an Ori or tutelary orisha that you are crowned with, in palo you have a Prenda which has the diety or Mpungo that claimed you but you can get many pots. In Palo its predicated upon a pact between a person and the diety as well as a pact between the spirit usually human who is in the pot that acts as an intermediary to reach the diety. You feed this pot blood and because of this women can not be around a prenda on their period as mentioned in the Azelia Banks video. People use the deities how ever they want, whether it be for good or bad as crazy as that sounds and the part that scares me is they put gun powder in these pots and human bones, especially skulls. Some folks do grave robberies and steal skulls for these pots called Prendas and steal the dirt too. They even put mercury on these things.

What motivates them to do good is a natural good-ness in them where they want to help and heal people. Some people want to use it for good because that is who they are and others use it for bad. Some people use it for bad when necessary like if someone is a criminal terrorizing the town they may put Palo on him to get him as an example.

I guess it does place humans above the spirits in a way.

Again though, I am not an initiate and am just going by what I read and heard from others.

 

[Guvnor]

These spirits aren't what they are billed out to be. Growing up in Nigeria we had a native doctor that lived in our neighbourhood. His practices were really boderline demonic eg sacrificing goats, eccentric demands of patients, blood rituals etc.

It gets even worse when you look at Nigerians Cults aka Fraternities that dwell with these spirits. A lot of evil is carried out when those two mix.

There's a resurgence of this stuff as blacks in the US are looking to find their African roots etc. I applaud the effort but I would really steer people away from this practice. Some of these spirits are straight from the underworld to keep it 100. I've seen the masqurades, the juju men, etc.

I know in ATL theres a resurgence of Ifa within the scammer/hustler/underground community. People have been making a lot of money from it but real evil things have been happening to those who falter.

Many people will say "ohh no this isnt black magic and its totally cool or the spirits are good and friendly etc"

I'll end with this quote from one of my favourite movies that is applicable to those quotes

"The greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing people he never existed"

A few questions, when you say masquerades and juju men are those where people get possessed?

When you say their is a resurgence among scammers, do you mean as people posing as practitioners? or people using it to get some money in their pocket?

I notice many criminals use these traditions to keep doing what they do without getting arrested and to hurt their enemies.

 

[BigMan]

A few questions, when you say masquerades and juju men are those where people get possessed?

When you say their is a resurgence among scammers, do you mean as people posing as practitioners? or people using it to get some money in their pocket?

I notice many criminals use these traditions to keep doing what they do without getting arrested and to hurt their enemies.

Any Atlanta brehs notice the amount of people practicing Ifa here?

 

[Guvnor]

Any Atlanta brehs notice the amount of people practicing Ifa here?

Damn, no wonder they never clapped No Plug. If he got Santeria or IFA on his side I see why he hasn't been clapped yet for murdering bankroll.

 

[phcitywarrior]

Damn, no wonder they never clapped No Plug. If he got Santeria or IFA on his side I see why he hasn't been clapped yet for murdering bankroll.

Exactly. The posted thread are the group of people I'm talking to in reference to "scammers". Essentially people in the underground economy; drug dealers, robbers, criminals, credit card scammers, 419 boys (Nigerian type scammers), fraudsters, etc. Criminals in Nigeria often use jazz aka juju or black magic, for money. Theres blood ritual for sacrifices and a whole bunch of other things.

Theres a Nigerian movie of a prominent politican who was suspected of using jazz to get power and influence. PArt of his condition was to keep a shrine in his house for the Orishas undisturbed. Long story short his maid one day accidently opened to room to his shrine, messed up the shrine and the man ran mad.

To your other question, yes, those people were possessed by something. And I can tell you for a fact it was not the Holy spirit.

Some things are just better left untouched

 

[Larry Lobster]

These spirits aren't what they are billed out to be. Growing up in Nigeria we had a native doctor that lived in our neighbourhood. His practices were really boderline demonic eg sacrificing goats, eccentric demands of patients, blood rituals etc.

It gets even worse when you look at Nigerians Cults aka Fraternities that dwell with these spirits. A lot of evil is carried out when those two mix.

There's a resurgence of this stuff as blacks in the US are looking to find their African roots etc. I applaud the effort but I would really steer people away from this practice. Some of these spirits are straight from the underworld to keep it 100. I've seen the masqurades, the juju men, etc.

I know in ATL theres a resurgence of Ifa within the scammer/hustler/underground community. People have been making a lot of money from it but real evil things have been happening to those who falter.

Many people will say "ohh no this isnt black magic and its totally cool or the spirits are good and friendly etc"

I'll end with this quote from one of my favourite movies that is applicable to those quotes

"The greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing people he never existed"

I don't think these spirits are bad, or maybe not all. Usually americans have a simplistic view of things, then end up getting screwed.

 

[imp7]

I've been trying to get into Santeria for almost a year now. I bought "Power of the Orishas" and it has intro level spells and Catholic saint parallels. I did find online of this huge old, rare book about down south hoodoo, it's seriously like 5000 pgs. haven't touched it yet. it has the history of it and interviews with practitioners.
My mom's friend was from Jamaica and practiced Ifa. She asked us to do a house cleansing. Her and her assistant came dressed in all white with white head wraps. They sprinkled holy water in every corner of the house, had us pray and chant. At the end she blessed some fruit and had us all eat it. She also told me about me and my mom's future. The crazy part is that as the ritual closed, her hand randomly started bleeding. She told me that this often happened to her at a cleansing, that she bled like Christ. After that I knew for sure African religions were legit.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I don't think these spirits are bad, or maybe not all. Usually americans have a simplistic view of things, then end up getting screwed.

And this is why I always say some things do not need to be discussed. I know American brehs want to learn about their roots, but this stuff is not meant for causal discussion and if anything many people should not be privy to this stuff. Theres a difference between learning your history and getting involved in this stuff.

 

[Larry Lobster]

And this is why I always say some things do not need to be discussed. I know American brehs want to learn about their roots, but this stuff is not meant for causal discussion and if anything many people should not be privy to this stuff. Theres a difference between learning your history and getting involved in this stuff.

Exactly, these african practices aren't meant for the average person out there. Our ancestors practiced it but they lived a totally way of life. Even the elders who practice it out here ain't living that 9 to 5 rat life.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Exactly, these african practices aren't meant for the average person out there. Our ancestors practiced it but they lived a totally way of life. Even the elders who practice it out here ain't living that 9 to 5 rat life.

yup, we don't have the coming of age rituals and processes to weed people out who arent worthy. So now you got cats trying to google this kind of stuff which is already a red flag. At the end of the day these people were in our communities to help us and give guidance through issues, but you got cats messing with stuff they do not understand to stunt.

 

[phcitywarrior]

And this is why I always say some things do not need to be discussed. I know American brehs want to learn about their roots, but this stuff is not meant for causal discussion and if anything many people should not be privy to this stuff. Theres a difference between learning your history and getting involved in this stuff.

Hence why I say people should just leave this stuff alone.